Iron 4? GrandMaster? Wait so nothing is changed?

BestPudgeNA··8 votes·26,033 views

New "Tiers have 4 divisions instead of 5" Seems like the only thing this accomplishes is making D1 Players feel better about themselves and Plat 5- Bronze 5 players feel worse about theirs. It's almost like Rito is ELO SHAMMING

Old Ranks = New Ranks
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Challenger | Challenger Master | Grandmaster Diamond 1 | Master Diamond 2 | Diamond 1 Diamond 3 | Diamond 2 Diamond 4 | Diamond 3 Diamond 5 | Diamond 4 Plat 1 | Plat 1 Plat 2 | Plat 2 Plat 3 | Plat 3 Plat 4 | Plat 4 Plat 5 | Gold 1 Gold 1 | Gold 2 Gold 2 | Gold 3 Gold 3 | Gold 4 Gold 4 | Silver 1 Gold 5 | Silver 2 Silver 1 | Silver 3 Silver 2 | Silver 4 Silver 3 | Bronze 1 Silver 4 | Bronze 2 Silver 5 | Bronze 3 Bronze 1 | Bronze 4 Bronze 2 | Iron 1 Bronze 3 | Iron 2 Bronze 4 | Iron 3 Bronze 5 | Iron 4

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

37 Comments

SugeMinPikk13 votes

5*4=20 and 4*5=20

Who'da thunk?

DrCyanide1 votes

Clearly not the Balance Team.

Stephenizgod6 votes

Not entirely correct, I think a larger portion of the population of each Tier is in the lower divisions. This creates large skill gaps in between the different divisions, particularly at high elo (Diamond 5 compared to Diamond 1) and at the lower elo (Bronze/Silver 5 compared to Bronze/Silver 1). This means that in a game getting 2 Silver 5's and 3 Silver 1-3 players against a team of all Silver 3-1 Players can mean the team with 2 Silver 5 players will be at a huge disadvantage, even though they are all Silvers. Also, I think mostly in Silver, you can go from Silver 3 to 1 and back multiple times with just a few losses/wins because of how mashed up the skill gaps are.

So I think what they want is to separate that into different Tiers and remove this huge discrepancy in player skill within the same tier. So I think that like Bronze 4 and 5 will be put into the entirety of Iron 1-4 and Diamond 1-2 will probably be pushed into Masters and the people at the top of Masters will instead be Grandmasters to differentiate themselves from the Masters players that used to be Diamond. This way you have a much closer level of skill within each Tier.

BestPudgeNA2 votes

{quoted}

Not entirely correct, I think a larger portion of the population of each Tier is in the lower divisions. This creates large skill gaps in between the different divisions, particularly at high elo (Diamond 5 compared to Diamond 1) and at the lower elo (Bronze/Silver 5 compared to Bronze/Silver 1). This means that in a game getting 2 Silver 5's and 3 Silver 1-3 players against a team of all Silver 3-1 Players can mean the team with 2 Silver 5 players will be at a huge disadvantage, even though they are all Silvers. Also, I think mostly in Silver, you can go from Silver 3 to 1 and back multiple times with just a few losses/wins because of how mashed up the skill gaps are.

So I think what they want is to separate that into different Tiers and remove this huge discrepancy in player skill within the same tier. So I think that like Bronze 4 and 5 will be put into the entirety of Iron 1-4 and Diamond 1-2 will probably be pushed into Masters and the people at the top of Masters will instead be Grandmasters to differentiate themselves from the Masters players that used to be Diamond. This way you have a much closer level of skill within each Tier.

The thing is D1 Still exist and it's called masters and D5 still exist it's just now called D4.

You get pair up with people outside of your Division already. You're paired by Tier not division.

I guess other then a title change it does reduce the range of players you can Duo with, since that's based off division.

Stephenizgod2 votes

No it isn't just a change of titles, it is a redistribution of the skill levels.

There is a huge difference between Diamond 1 players and Diamond 5 players, so them being in the same Tier is an inaccuracy of the Ranking system as far as where your skill lies. The same can be said about Silver and to a lesser extent Gold. The goal is to clear up the issues with skill gaps between the Divisions within a Tier and to help with Matchmaking.

BestPudgeNA1 votes

{quoted}

No it isn't just a change of titles, it is a redistribution of the skill levels.

There is a huge difference between Diamond 1 players and Diamond 5 players, so them being in the same Tier is an inaccuracy of the Ranking system as far as where your skill lies. The same can be said about Silver and to a lesser extent Gold. The goal is to clear up the issues with skill gaps between the Divisions within a Tier and to help with Matchmaking.

Being in a different Tier does nothing meaningful though, outside of who you can duo with. MMR is what matters for matchmaking and how much LP you gain or lose. D5 is now called D4 and D1 is now called Master. It's a change in title only.

Also, the biggest skill gap between players in the same tier is definitely S5 vs S1.

Stephenizgod1 votes

True but your MMR decides your Tier so once the dust settles you will only matched with people within the same Tier range generally. So if you are Silver 2 you may be matched with Silver 4 or Gold 1, but most likely not Bronze 1 unless their MMR is unnaturally high. I think with less Divisions it will make climbing a bit easier too.

D357R0Y3R3 votes

I don't know if it changed in general, but for d1 players it sure changed

match making is a huge mess right there, because of low amount of players in higher tiers, the match making put challenger+master+d1 players together games become imbalanced, and d1 players can't play with d2 or d3 players because the skill gap is too huge

with grandmaster, match making might become better also it would be a huge pleasure to not be in the same tier as d5 players

haaaaaaalp4 votes

Matchmaking isn't based off of divisions, it is based off of mmr which is not being changed.

Grandmaster isn't going to change the fact that only .1% of the playerbase can play at the level of the top .1% of the playerbase. There isn't going to be any change in the number of players who can play at the current d1 skill level. All it will change is the name of the division the player is in.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

even if it's based on mmr there is no way a diamond1 player has the same mmr than a challenger player and even if they did the difference in skill is still there the games would not be balanced

haaaaaaalp2 votes

{quoted}

even if it's based on mmr there is no way a diamond1 player has the same mmr than a challenger player and even if they did the difference in skill is still there the game won't be balanced

Then why do you think the new system will make things any better at that mmr range? You still run into the same problem that only a small handful of players can play at said level and renaming the divisions to include grandmaster won't change that.

5050BS1 votes

And that is why the system is still broken and useless.

BestPudgeNA4 votes

{quoted}

I don't know if it changed in general, but for d1 players it sure changed

match making is a huge mess right there, because of low amount of players in higher tiers, the match making put challenger+master+d1 players together games become imbalanced, and d1 players can't play with d2 or d3 players because the skill gap is too huge

with grandmaster, match making might become better also it would be a huge pleasure to not be in the same tier as d5 players

No, it won't ... it's a placebo change, the D1 players in challenger game are still going to be d1 players in challenger game they will just be called Master instead of D1.

Altiverse3 votes

Well, yes. That exactly was the goal in mind - to have the exact same ladder in terms of MMR, but presented differently. This achieves a few things:

  • More clarity on your ranking, especially in some specific leagues (Silver and Diamond mostly), to better differentiate skill in areas that the current ladder is lacking.
  • A more smoothed-out climb, whereas in the current ladder you'd be stuck despite feeling you've improved.
  • And lastly, we don't know the statistical distribution of the highest tiers in the new ladder yet. As it is right now, there are globally 0.02% of players (among those that play Ranked) in Challenger - and only 0.03% in Master ( Taken from LeagueOfGraphs ), meaning there's an average of only 300 Master players per region. Perhaps the new ladder will support far more players in both Grandmaster and Master, and probably throughout entire Diamond as well.
ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

The whole point is to more accurately reflect your real rank.

So yes. People will drop, but ranks will actually mean more. That's the point.

You're seriously misunderstanding what "elo shaming" is. Elo shaming is when you berate or dismiss someone because of their rank. Riot isn't doing that just by making new ranks. That's some serious reaching.

BestPudgeNA2 votes

{quoted}

The whole point is to more accurately reflect your real rank.

Literally nothing is change but a title. But the title is only most prestigious if you currently above plat 1 and below Challenger. If you Plat 5 or below your title is now less prestigious

You're seriously misunderstanding what "elo shaming" is. Elo shaming is when you berate or dismiss someone because of their rank. Riot isn't doing that just by making new ranks. That's some serious reaching.

I'm half joking half serious, not missing the point at all. What you seem to be missing is that Iron 4 sounds a lot more insulting then Bronze 5 and Bronze 3 sounds more insulting then Silver 5. This is why when people joke about it they will call people wood, plastic ect division. Like the account i'm posting from would no longer be Silver 3, it would be bronze 1. In a way it's kinda like this account is being demoted. Which i don't really care about other then the fact i find it funny.

Razasin1 votes

A diamond 1 player is way different than a diamond 5 player in terms of skill level. If two people say, "Oh, I'm in diamond" then you can't tell if there's a major skill difference without knowing more specifics. The title change alone can add clarification.

Also, the fact that it's insulting is temporary. The climb is a lot shorter for lower ranks. For example, take the two lowest. You think that it's going to be distributed like this:

Silver 3 | Bronze 1 Silver 4 | Bronze 2 Silver 5 | Bronze 3 Bronze 1 | Bronze 4 Bronze 2 | Iron 1 Bronze 3 | Iron 2 Bronze 4 | Iron 3 Bronze 5 | Iron 4

but it's going to be distributed like this:

Silver 4 | Bronze 1 Silver 5 | Bronze 2 Bronze 1 | Bronze 3 Bronze 2-high 3 | Bronze 4 Bronze low 3 - 4 | Iron 1 Bronze 4 | Iron 2 Bronze 5 | Iron 3 Bronze 5 | Iron 4

Because of the amount of players that are in bronze and silver as compared to higher tiers, many people feel hardstuck bronze 5-3 for example. With this new system, you would climb from Iron 4 to Bronze 4, making them feel as if they've scaled a tier. This strongly improves the player mindset psychologically rather than deal with the continuous frustration of feeling stuck after a couple matches. The other thing is that now that Silver 4 is Bronze 1 in this scenario, Silver 1-3 will be redistributed within Silver 1-4 due to a high concentration of players in that tier. All in all, redistribution based on number of hardstuck players improves mindset in lower tiers, and more accurately titles different skill levels in upper tiers. The example I gave is not necessarily exact, as riot has probably spent a number of months looking up stats and testing the best way to boost the effect of the change but hopefully you understand better that the change is not the same as 5 tiers x 5 divisions + 2 tiers becoming 6 tiers x 4 divisions + 3 tiers.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

The whole point is to more accurately reflect your real rank.

So yes. People will drop, but ranks will actually mean more. That's the point.

You're seriously misunderstanding what "elo shaming" is. Elo shaming is when you berate or dismiss someone because of their rank. Riot isn't doing that just by making new ranks. That's some serious reaching.

This alone does not fix much of anything, you will still have the majority of the players at the bottom, just with a new name.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Yes, but there are more ranks at the bottom, so those players skill level can be expressed more accurately.

The extreme case of your argument would be imagining that everyone is just split between masters and diamond. You could do that. It's possible. But it wouldn't be meaningful, because there's such a smattering of skill levels within both of those ranks. Every new rung is another barrier that helps separate players. It's not more complicated than that, really.

What Riot is doing is acting on the observation that both ends of the spectrum appear to have people of disparate skill levels kind of mushed together. Every time they add more rungs, it's going to help with that issue. A ladder with only one rung isn't that helpful.

Now, it's also true that there are diminishing returns on each new rung. I agree with that. But that doesn't mean that they don't do anything. They still will help separate players. Having 4 new rungs at the bottom is going to fundamentally change what the spread looks like at the top.

SuicidalTurnip3 votes

I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding regarding ranks.

They aren't just going to chuck B5 players into I4, they'll redistribute MMR.

Currently 0-1149 MMR is bronze, whereas the gap for Silver is 1150-1499.

That's a massive gap. It's likely that B5-B3 will be Iron, B2-B1 will be Bronze, S5-S3 will be Silver, S2-G5 will be Gold, etc.

There will be a meaningful difference between someone who is Silver and Gold, Gold and Plat, Plat and Diamond, etc.

BestPudgeNA3 votes

{quoted}

I think you have a bit of a misunderstanding regarding ranks.

They aren't just going to chuck B5 players into I4,

Wrong that is exactly what will happen.

Meep Man2 votes

People really don't seem to get what these added Ranks do. It condenses the pool of players you can be matched with. Iron's will almost always get Iron's. Same for each of the other ones. All you people that have been complaining about the wide gap between the skills of the players on your team should, theoretically, have that feel lessened.

This is pretty reaching as a statement don't you think? ELO Shaming? Really?

BestPudgeNA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Ol Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uq3xgAnW,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-09-20T15:36:05.701+0000)

People really don't seem to get what these added Ranks do. It condenses the pool of players you can be matched with.

No it doesn't that's the fucking point man. You can and generally do get matches up with people that aren't part of your division.

Razasin1 votes

You seem to have a misunderstanding of how the new ranked system works. You currently get people that aren't part of your division. By redistributing MMR to reflect a smoother curve of climbing, it more accurately places players into the pool where they belong. Therefore, in the future you are more likely to be placed with iron players if you're iron, and so on, because MMR is now more evenly distributed. The structuring is not a 1 to 1 change as you are describing in your post above.

AFilthyCaitMain1 votes

The goal was to make each rank less diverse and make it so improving shows improvement more consistently in each rank then it does now. More ranks but with less divisions is a way to do that.

MagmusOverlord1 votes

How do you think they will handle end of the season rewards for this type of rank system? Will it still be gold+ get victorious skins?

DrCyanide3 votes

I believe that's the plan.

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

I hope so. Kind of a bummer for people who can barely make gold now, cause there's 2 whole ranks between silver 2 and those sweet gold rewards now.

But hey, ranked is all about the competition, so I say bring it on. If anyone didn't want to compete, there's always normals!

DrCyanide2 votes

There's also the separate ranks for each Role, and as I recall you just have to get Gold with one Role to get the reward. So if you're ~Gold 3 material on your main role then you should be fine.

B0T KHAZIX1 votes

it well be really funny if I still get diamond and plats in my gold ranked games I swear to god

Beerstein1 votes

Yup "we're adding more so progression feels better" then proceeds to subtract the same number they add.

Beerstein1 votes

They also upped requirement for rewards to Gold 3.

IvetoPetrov1 votes

Troll new ranking for low elo.

It will make the lowest levels to climb even harder. I was silver 3 several days ago. After 6 losses i woke up as iron 1. If Rito places me iron 1 in the new season i will have to climb the iron 1 promotion and whole bronze to get back to silver.

Best of luck.

00Se7en1 votes

yeah i spent months climbing to b1 almost getting to silver just to be placed in iron 1 and falling because of my shit teammates and my utter frustration with the game. total bullshit im not gonna climb if every season if im put even lower then i was before. next im gonna be cardboard 3. "its to stop the iron memes now"

Themselves1 votes

Elo shaming has been happening for awhile now. It's all over youtube. At some point not being trash in a game became more important to people than not being a trash human being in real life.

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