Remove this Yasuo ult turret safety ffs

BeatzBoyFTW·May 13, 2018·153 votes·24,449 views

So ridiculous that it looks as if his sword didn't even touch his target to be dealing damage. Remember when diving mechanics were meant to have "risks"?

182 Comments

NyarlathοtepMay 13, 201871 votes

Inb4 yasuo defenders will try to defend him, only to say "incoherent monkey sounds".

Fondling GemsMay 13, 201837 votes

Honestly I don't think Yasuo ult trying to place him outside tower range is a bad thing, I just don't think it should let him be that far away. Any champion with a skillshot dash (such as Leblanc) would try to place themselves in a position where they hit the target while being outside of turret range by utilizing the AOE. Since Yasuo's ult isn't targeted, but the lead up to it is a skillshot, I think the fact that it tries to place him outside of turret range is actually a good feature that removes unneeded frustration while playing him, especially since his passive (which is refreshed on ult) doesn't block turret shots.

By assuming that every player is smart enough to have wanted to stand outside turret range while ulting if they had the option it removes a lot of frustration for the players who are skilled enough to do this on every other champion and promotes clutch plays which I think are healthy. Hurting player's ability to make those clutch plays further reduces the positive impact a solo player can have on the game, which has been a big complaint recently.

So do I think that it shouldn't be so forgiving as seen in the video above? Yes. It should definitely place you no further than Yasuo ult normally places you in relation to the target. However if that range includes a space outside the turret range I believe that letting it place him outside of turret range makes sense, and reduces more overall frustration than it causes.

Personally I am pretty uncaring about the whole Yasuo issue. I have never had much issue dealing with him, either in lane or late game. As a game programmer though this is the one point that bugs me. From a design standpoint I very much support the way it works, if not the extent to which it works. As it is also one of the least frustrating parts of his kit, and should the range be reduced would be even less annoying while also providing a large positive aspect to Yasuo player's gameplay (especially for better Yasuo players) I think that focusing it doesn't make much sense over other parts of his kit.

princeblumpkinMay 13, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uWwYgBnk,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-05-13T15:02:11.141+0000)

Honestly I don't think Yasuo ult trying to place him outside tower range is a bad thing, I just don't think it should let him be that far away. Any champion with a skillshot dash (such as Leblanc) would try to place themselves in a position where they hit the target while being outside of turret range by utilizing the AOE. Since Yasuo's ult isn't targeted, but the lead up to it is a skillshot, I think the fact that it tries to place him outside of turret range is actually a good feature that removes unneeded frustration while playing him, especially since his passive (which is refreshed on ult) doesn't block turret shots.

Finally, someone who actually understands why this mechanic exists.

DeathBurstMay 14, 20184 votes

Note that this someone is still saying that the current implementation is bull-shit and should still place Yasuo closer to his actual target than it currently does.

I don't know, maybe that's even what everyone is complaining about, and not just that "finally someone"?

princeblumpkinMay 14, 20182 votes

Most people I see complaining about it want the mechanic gone entirely. As it stands, the max range it will place him is 225 range. Do you know why it's 225 range? Because it's the same range as the latch radius that determines if he will ult multiple people or not. If I ult an enemy champion, any enemy champions that are both knocked up and within 225 range of the target will also be ulted. 225 range really is not that much; it's just barely longer than the auto range of champs like Darius, Garen, and Xin Zhao, who all have 175 range.

HibekiMay 14, 20181 votes

Why not let yasuo decide where he places with ult exactly like shunpo, so its a skill based and not auto free bullshit

Fondling GemsMay 14, 20183 votes

There are a number of solid reasons actually.

Yasuo is able to ult off any knockup/displacement if he reacts fast enough, even things like trundle pillar. However those knockups are such a short duration that it is unlikely any player could both move their mouse and click twice fast enough to trigger his ult before the target lands. That is solvable by having it default to whichever side of the target the mouse is on, but once again in almost every situation Yasuo is going to want to be outside turret range anyways, so it doesn't actually change much, or add much skill expression to his kit. Instead it simply introduces an increased chance of making mistakes, which is not a healthy way to handle these sorts of issues. Nerfing a champion by making their kit less intuitive is not the way to do it.

There is also an issue with ulting multiple targets, while this could be replaced by having his ult be an AOE, apply the effect to everyone in the area who was knocked up, this is difficult to combine in an easy to use way with having his ult default to whichever side his mouse is on. Currently it tries to ult as many people as possible, by having it default to mouse direction you would often end up only ulting one person because your mouse read you as being on the closer side of the closest person.

What does this mean: First of all in 90% of situation Yasuo will be acting exactly the same as currently, which doesn't help reduce player frustration in the slightest. At the same time it increases Yasuo player's frustration because their ult is no less intuitive, and unlike Katarina placing off to one side or another is far less important for Yasuo, as his ult holds him in place for long enough that everyone is able to adjust to his new position, as opposed to Katarina who can try to catch daggers/jump to champion at strange angles to try and avoid skillshots.

The only situation in which picking what side you are on is actually useful is when you are near a turret and can still ult the target while being out of aggro, and there is only one decision to make there. Having the game do it for you is a feel good boost to the user, without actually buffing the champion, as anyone with very basic mechanics who doesn't make a mistake would do that anyways, especially since the mistake can be so devastating; 2 guaranteed turret shots is going to do more damage to a level 6 Yasuo than his ult will do to you, especially since his shield doesn't trigger on tower damage.

Changing how his ult functions wont make the ability feel any different to play against unless you are in the depths of Bronze, which like Challenger, isn't what the game should be balanced around. In other words your proposed change does nothing to help the frustration of the player fighting Yasuo, while adding the the frustration of Yasuo players, which isn't the answer. That is why something like changing how far away it can place Yasuo would improve the experience for the first party without severely harming it for the second party.

While it may push it to far, Yasuo's ult placement is actually a positive improvement for Yasuo players without harming Yasuo's opponent. If you find Yasuo frustrating that isn't the cause of the reason, it is simply something to lash out at because it is different from how most abilities work, but that doesn't make it bad. Balancing games is about far more than just buffs/nerfs/lashing out at the first thing you see. It is about carefully considering both the positive and negative impacts of each choice for all parties involved and weighing whether it is the right choice to make. Ultimately this feature of his ultimate is perfectly fine, and if it needed changing the thing to change would be the range as that would provide the a similar experience for users while improving the experience for receivers.

The thing about it that is triggering isn't that it does that, but the fact that visually he stands so far away from where he normally stands. The direction he is placed on isn't the thing annoying players, it is the inconsistency from how his ult normally works, which is why nerfing the range would solve many player's issues rather than removing it entirely, because interestingly if it was completely removed he could ult to that range on any side he wanted, because that is his actual ult distance.

BoulderoxMay 13, 201837 votes

as i put in another thread on same topic on ult characters

because, if a decides to ult under tower, they have a CHOICE to dive, you face the consequences Warwick ult you under a turret, you risk the damage Zed you gotta be fast and risk dying with tower (this can be applied to Ekko Kled Tryndamere Fizz they can dive effectively, but if they do they need to make sure they can kill and get out, fail and live, go 1 for 1, or fail and die) Yasuo oh you are diving, lets just put you 10 feet from them so you are safe... >_> you chose to ult under tower, you CHOOSE to dive, the ult button isn't cast automatically, why do you get a free pass?

Spicy RiceMay 13, 20186 votes

Tell me, how many of these BLINK to the enemy champion and then get locked in an animation?

Oh wait, LITERALLY no other champion does this. The only one who used to do this was fiora, but she got to be untargetable during her ult.

Toxic Teemo MainMay 13, 201816 votes

You are willingly pressing R, you take the risk of being damaged while ulting, your fault.

TheCodeisCupCakeMay 13, 20187 votes

A good point that will go completely ignored by the Yasuophobic monkeys

TerozuMay 13, 201824 votes

Its a terrible point.

Kat does the same thing and she doesnt get protection.

Spicy RiceMay 13, 20185 votes

While kat does have a blink, her blink itself isn't locking her in.

HibekiMay 14, 201817 votes

no but her ult does. She blinks then locks herself into an animation.

Spicy RiceMay 14, 20184 votes

I don't think you understand the point here. After kat blinks, she gets to decide whether to ult or not inside tower range.

Yasuo does not. He instantly blinks to the target, and is stuck there

HibekiMay 14, 201821 votes

I don't think you understand the point here. After Yasuo knocks her up, he gets to decide whether to ult or not inside tower range.

FTFY

TerozuMay 14, 20187 votes

Omfg...

I just realized ftfy means "fixed that for you" and my mind is blown.

LichKing234May 14, 20182 votes

while i wouldnt consider Yas op its been confirmed that his ult puts you away from the turret witch is basically alittle safety net no other ult does that when you ult with vi your locked into the animation, same with alot of the other ults but they dont give you safety when you tower dive unlike yas

DuskDaUmbreonMay 13, 20182 votes

Kat can also go "Oh shit I'm in their turret range!" and walk out of it.

Yasuo cannot. He's the only champion in the game who has a channeled ult that the user cannot cancel or end early.

TerozuMay 13, 20187 votes

Warwick, i believe Malzahar suppresses himself, Kled i think is unstoppable.

Flawless FetusMay 15, 20182 votes

She isn't locked, though. She gets to walk out w/e she feels like it. Lol. I think Yasuo's ult safety is retarded, but let's not pretend that Kat locks herself into anything. Lol.

BisaknospMay 13, 201833 votes

{quoted}

Remove ~~this~~ Yasuo ~~ult turret safety ffs~~

there you go

FullmuteAll playMay 13, 201816 votes

{quoted}

https://youtu.be/CggbSIc8Cfk

Remember when diving mechanics were meant to have "risks"?

Sure Tryndamere Kayle Kled Fizz Ekko

Bogdan1945May 13, 201812 votes

Trynda Ekko and Skaarl are designed at least partially as divers , kayle , well if you get dived by a kayle you're bad to get so low, and fizz when good is usually played as a diver too , yasuo was supposed to be a melee adc not an unkillable diver

FullmuteAll playMay 13, 20189 votes

idk, I feel the same about Yasuo with insane shields he has.

AmazoXMay 13, 20187 votes

{quoted}

idk, I feel the same about Yasuo with insane shields he has.

The shield that is gone with a spit.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 13, 20185 votes

low elo players dont know how to aa someone unless they play a champion aa reliant.

FullmuteAll playMay 13, 20181 votes

He stacked shield, uses Q and dive you with ult, when are you going to aa him ?

My Waifu VanillaMay 13, 20183 votes

Another option is not getting hit by the tornado while you are at 1/4 health.

FullmuteAll playMay 13, 20182 votes

I guess we already forgot we take a scenario, where Yasuo dives you

My Waifu VanillaMay 13, 20183 votes

And you dodge the tornado. Yasuo isn't diving you full health. His damage isn't high enough unless you already have him 3 kills. That being said don't sit in lane and zone yourself at less than 1/3 health which is the only time he's going to dive you and the 1 dodged turret shot from ulti MIGHT matter.

FullmuteAll playMay 14, 20182 votes

And you look back at the topic and see Yasuo ulting.

HibekiMay 14, 20183 votes

Dodge the skillshot

game over boys dont matter how broken something is this instantly wins the argument /s

My Waifu VanillaMay 14, 20182 votes

The amount of conditions to be met in order for you to get dove by Yasuo AND for the shield to matter are so many though.

You HAVE to be be below 1/3 health for Yasuo to ever dive you in lane. He doesn't do enough damage unless you fed your brains out already. It is at this point you probably should just recall. "but he will just take my tower" isn't a very good excuse when you are turtling under tower losing half of each wave, get dove, and then lose the tower anyway because you died.
You HAVE to get hit by the tornado. Yasuo does NOT have an ultimate without landing another VERY telegraphed ability in the game. That's on you for getting hit by it.
He needs to not already have his passive up. Refreshing the shield doesn't do anything if he didn't have it popped to begin with.
He needs to actually get hit by you to pop the shield. If he dives you and all you do is throw an auto. You probably healed him as a mage since the shield is bigger than your auto attack and thus caused him to take less damage from the tower. This is relevant because he HAS to take tower shots for this complaint to at all be relevant. If he doesn't take ANY tower shots when he dives you then 99% of the time it wouldn't have mattered if he actually dove you since it means he killed you with JUST Q+R+Ignite thus not needing to enter tower range at all. That means if he ACTUALLY were to go under your tower with his ulti he would need AT LEAST less than 20% health to die since he is taking at most 3 tower shots due to how fast you died. Even less if he were to flash out.

This argument against the yasuo ult doesn't do anything. The amount of times Yasuo dives you at a health level where him actually being at risk of dying ANYWAY to diving you is so small it isn't relevant. Also, the ult if putting him far enough out of tower range will sometimes just save your life while being dove. If he doesn't kill you instantly (which depends on YOUR health level being fairly small), chances are you are just in the clear since he got placed super far away from you and you can dash or flash out. Granted you should have dashed or flashed away from the giant tornado you didn't decide to dodge, but I digress.

BakedLotionMay 13, 20186 votes

Fizz at least has to stay within turret range and play around the turret attacks to avoid getting hit. If he's E'ing away he's missing out on a large chunk of damage, and if he E's for damage he has to time it correctly (although it's not hard)

Everyone else's is attached to a long cd ult that you have to control and time yourself.

Yasuo? well it just does it for you

also i hate kled so fuck him

Feel ApathyMay 13, 20182 votes

Elise

EnderspiderMay 14, 20182 votes

Bard diving what?

MhihnjMay 13, 20185 votes

i always thought that yasuo's ult would postion him in the direction towards the cursor when he ulted.

AmazoXMay 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

i always thought that yasuo's ult would postion him in the direction towards the cursor when he ulted.

Only if you ult multiple targets

TheGreatNinxMay 13, 20184 votes

No, the person playing yasuo has choice of where he apears as long as the cursor is there doesn't need to be multi hit.

AmazoXMay 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, the person playing yasuo has choice of where he apears as long as the cursor is there doesn't need to be multi hit.

False, he always appears behind the target.

TheGreatNinxMay 14, 20182 votes

Do I really I have refer to the OP video posted as proof that claim is bogus? He hits 1 enemy, Apears directly in front Thats not behind. OR do I have to really go into tool tip record a short video to show thats how it works. XD

5050BSMay 13, 20184 votes

Its Riot build in Scripting because Yasuo players early on complained that they sucked at using his Ult and Yasuo was Riots baby.

O for OriannaMay 13, 20183 votes

Riot wont give a single fuk about this post no matter how many upvotes it get. But yea I don't hate that turret safety bs

AirKingNeoMay 13, 20183 votes

Yeah, even I think that should be changed to be a bit less stupid. I don't mind that he has turret safety in the sense that he spawns away from it, but the amount of range to not be in a turret is dumb.

Child of the PitMay 13, 20183 votes

It is funny how only recently this is the new rant topic of Yasuo when it was there for a longer time (if im not mistaken)

But yeah i agree, this mechanic is ridiculous and should get taken away from his kit.

GayFluffyUnicornMay 14, 20182 votes

Nah people have been complaining far longer about it. Earliest i can remember was last season when yasuo was kinda broken with frozen mallet.

pryda022May 14, 20183 votes

It should be removed from the game and he should move to the location of the closest target when he ults multiple people. He doesn’t need hidden power like that and players should be rewarded for bad dives

Mael JadeMay 13, 20182 votes

I´ve done some testing in practice tool and if possible you are in ~225 unit range when ulting someone and he is under turret. I also do think that it is somewhat stupid, you are taking the risk of diving

toastMonkeyMay 14, 20182 votes

Read comments, then watched video. I can see both sides from the comments. From the video - it's too far. The re-placement feature is fine as an idea, but is clearly working incorrectly. Yasuo 's too far from the Jinx .