What if Garen's W stacked infinitely?

PVPmaster LOL·Mar 21, 2019·1 votes·2,957 views

Just wondering, how much on a scale of 1-5 would he break?

21 Comments

juanmiscar277Mar 21, 20193 votes

with 320 cs he would get 80 armor and mr so it's not that big of a deal, u will never see a garen get that cs I'd say 2

Critmaster GarenMar 21, 20193 votes

it would also mean youd be pushed into a playstile where you sit in a sidelane and have to farm the entire game.

i think they should give garens w the same treatment as Chogath ult

give it a base value that he can stack up on minions, and then give him the ability to gather bonus stacks that dont count towards that cap.

ive brought this up before. they could reduce the cap for the passive stacks on minions back down to 30, and then give him 1 bonus armor/mr for takedowns (kills and assists) against enemey champions, enemy structures (turrets and inhibitors), and epic monsters.

this would give him a way to infinitely stack his w that wouldnt rely on him to farm minions in a sidelane for 40 minutes. in exceptionally long games he might get up to around 60 bonus resistances this way, so it would be kept at a reasonable rate.

PVPmaster LOLMar 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHA76zZE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-21T08:37:06.456+0000)

it would also mean youd be pushed into a playstile where you sit in a sidelane and have to farm the entire game.

i think they should give garens w the same treatment as ult

give it a base value that he can stack up on minions, and then give him the ability to gather bonus stacks that dont count towards that cap.

ive brought this up before. they could reduce the cap for the passive stacks on minions back down to 30, and then give him 1 bonus armor/mr for takedowns (kills and assists) against enemey champions, enemy structures (turrets and inhibitors), and epic monsters.

this would give him a way to infinitely stack his w that wouldnt rely on him to farm minions in a sidelane for 40 minutes. in exceptionally long games he might get up to around 60 bonus resistances this way, so it would be kept at a reasonable rate.

Oh darn, Cho's ult works like that now? Haven't played against one in a LONG time.

Iota ThetaMar 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=PVPmaster LOL,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHA76zZE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-03-21T10:52:26.195+0000)

Oh darn, Cho's ult works like that now? Haven't played against one in a LONG time.

Yup. Can only ult 6 minions before a cap, then you can only get feast stacks from ulting champs and..i think only epic monsters, can’t remember off the top of my head if large like blue buff don’t count. It allows him to stack infinitely, but he can’t just constantly powerfarm minions like Nasus.

Critmaster GarenMar 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHA76zZE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-03-21T12:24:07.816+0000)

Yup. Can only ult 6 minions before a cap, then you can only get feast stacks from ulting champs and..i think only epic monsters, can’t remember off the top of my head if large like blue buff don’t count. It allows him to stack infinitely, but he can’t just constantly powerfarm minions like Nasus.

epic monsters means only rift herald, drakes, and nashor.

Iota ThetaMar 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHA76zZE,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-21T14:14:33.483+0000)

epic monsters means only rift herald, drakes, and nashor.

I knew epic monsters. couldn’t remember if the tooltip include large monster alongside epic, but only epic would make more sense.

True GarenMar 24, 20192 votes

It would have to stack infinitely at a reduced rate... like, after 40 it would stack at .125.

At that point, I think that an infinitely stacking resistances would tend to become a noob trap.

As it is, Garen has little problem reaching 200 armor or mr in a game. 300 resistance score = %75 damage reduction. 400 resistance score = %80 damage reduction. Do we want to see all the new Garen players farming late game at full build for a couple of resistance points?

What if... we just gave Garen an appropriately scaling base health so that he wasn't so ANEMIC? Any decent juggernaut has 2200 at lvl 18. Garen starts nicely but scales so bad that he has only 2000 base hp at lvl 18. Or is that also supposed to be a learning tool? (Stack health, 'cause we're giving you free resistances; resistances are worth stacking to a point, but more health is always worth.)

PVPmaster LOLMar 25, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHA76zZE,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-03-24T12:06:34.491+0000)

It would have to stack infinitely at a reduced rate... like, after 40 it would stack at .125.

At that point, I think that an infinitely stacking resistances would tend to become a noob trap.

As it is, Garen has little problem reaching 200 armor or mr in a game. 300 resistance score = %75 damage reduction. 400 resistance score = %80 damage reduction. Do we want to see all the new Garen players farming late game at full build for a couple of resistance points?

What if... we just gave Garen an appropriately scaling base health so that he wasn't so ANEMIC? Any decent juggernaut has 2200 at lvl 18. Garen starts nicely but scales so bad that he has only 2000 base hp at lvl 18. Or is that also supposed to be a learning tool? (Stack health, 'cause we're giving you free resistances; resistances are worth stacking to a point, but more health is always worth.)

Now that you mentioned it, it is quite the noob trap. Whenever I play Threshy boi, I always grab souls at all costs without thinking, normally leading to overstaying scenarios.

True GarenMar 24, 20192 votes

My idea for a small QoL buff: Let the interrupt time for Perseverance be subject to CDR.

On My Kill ListMar 21, 20191 votes

probably 1 considering garens w stacks so slowly.

The SkáldMar 21, 20191 votes

Pandemic PunchMar 21, 20191 votes

Probably 1 since malphite still dies in 6 auto attacks from vayne or dies in 3 seconds from a twitch ult while malphite has over 800 armor.

The thigh guyMar 21, 20191 votes

Considering how little armor and mr means probably like a 2/5

LovelleMar 21, 20191 votes

Penetration would become more effective against him the longer the game went on. Also, Trundle would love stealing all those resistances and basically becoming immortal.

All the current late game carries would still destroy him at full build.

PVPmaster LOLMar 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Penetration would become more effective against him the longer the game went on. Also, Trundle would love stealing all those resistances and basically becoming immortal.

All the current late game carries would still destroy him at full build.

So what does garen suffer from the most? Being kited or being out damaged?

Bears Dont CareMar 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=PVPmaster LOL,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHA76zZE,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-03-22T03:16:08.704+0000)

So what does garen suffer from the most? Being kited or being out damaged?

That is a good question, I would say neither. Garen lacks utility and survivability during the fight. Illaoi can heal a ton if she ults well, same for darius with his Q.

All the juggernauts have some means of getting into the fight, and survivng it. Garen doesnt have a means of survivng enough to dish out the damage he needs to deal.

NemeBroMar 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHA76zZE,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-03-22T04:29:11.936+0000)

That is a good question, I would say neither. Garen lacks utility and survivability during the fight. Illaoi can heal a ton if she ults well, same for darius with his Q.

All the juggernauts have some means of getting into the fight, and survivng it. Garen doesnt have a means of survivng enough to dish out the damage he needs to deal.

There isn't a single juggernaut in the game as survivable as Garen.

He is the fifth least likely champion to die in the entire game, statistically, in plat and diamond+.

Garen has a lot of problems, but his survivability isn't one of them.

Bears Dont CareMar 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

There isn't a single juggernaut in the game as survivable as Garen.

He is the fifth least likely champion to die in the entire game, statistically, in plat and diamond+.

Garen has a lot of problems, but his survivability isn't one of them.

That is only in terms of laning as well as when the fight jsnt centered around him. He jas absolutely no in battle sustain. The ither juggernauts cannot escape as well as he can, and as such his survivability seems higher. In terms of being in the fight? He dies.

Critmaster GarenMar 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHA76zZE,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-23T18:49:32.059+0000)

That is only in terms of laning as well as when the fight jsnt centered around him. He jas absolutely no in battle sustain. The ither juggernauts cannot escape as well as he can, and as such his survivability seems higher. In terms of being in the fight? He dies.

what could really help him right now is to stack conqueror with his e.

literally all of his problems atm are, not enough base damage against non villains, and no in combat sustain.

think about it. if he could stack conqueror like urgot, hed get extra ad, 10% of his damage dealt healed and 10% converted to true damage. this would just allow him to deal a little more damage on beefier builds and help him out so much to stay in longer fights.

NemeBroMar 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHA76zZE,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-23T19:31:21.069+0000)

what could really help him right now is to stack conqueror with his e.

literally all of his problems atm are, not enough base damage against non villains, and no in combat sustain.

think about it. if he could stack conqueror like urgot, hed get extra ad, 10% of his damage dealt healed and 10% converted to true damage. this would just allow him to deal a little more damage on beefier builds and help him out so much to stay in longer fights.

This idea has some potential to help Garen with the problem that as the game goes on he is an easily-ignored annoyance, and might make it so that he isn't possibly the worst duelist in his class.

LovelleMar 22, 20191 votes

Having no utility, while being fully melee, is his biggest weakness.

Second would be his weakness to kiting. Last would be defensive scaling being heavily outscaled by damage, but that's a weakness all juggernauts share.