@RiotRepertoir: Can we do something about Garen's early game

LegenDariusGaren··6 votes·662 views

This champ is so bad right now. He probably has the worst early game right now, even worse than Nasus. And what is even worse is the current top lane meta, making Garen a guaranteed loss pick for your team. Can we please consider shifting his late game power to his early game. A lot of my former Garen main friends and myself, that have played Garen regardless of the meta, hardly play him anymore. What was once considered blasphemy, is now true, Garen is trash tier.

How to fix this: Change the scaling on Garen's spin. For example, at level 7 his spin would do X damage, at 7 ticks. At level 16, his spin would do the same X damage, but at 10 ticks. Thus, the only purpose of the increase in ticks is the quicker armor shred from cleaver, and the villain passive. I currently max his Q first because of how weak his spin damage is. It is almost better to just auto attack them pre-level 10. What values can we change the scaling on his spin to? His pre-rework values. Garen currently only out damages pre-rework Garen at level 16. Thus, implementing his old scaling, which would max out at level 9, would not be a problem since many people thought that Garen could easily be ignored in a team fight. However, with the villain passive, he will still be an anti-carry.

Can we please try this on PBE and if it doesn't meet expectations, we can have feedback as to why it is being scrapped.

9 Comments

Nahui3 votes

Load of BS. His spin does so much damage and does so much more than autos, sorry bud. Garen's laning phase is already fairly oppressive vs most melee champions.

redniwediS1 votes

I hate to say it but the numbers don't support what you're saying. You get far more damage out of leveling Q first and keeping one point in E until the mid to late game.

Garen's spin lost base damage in favor of higher scaling with AD, and if you take into account the way his spin speeds up with levels rather than skill ranks he received a clear early game nerf. This isn't even taking into account the 33% damage lost for hitting multiple targets. It's worded as a buff, but the numbers before and after that particular change show it as a nerf.

Odds are you are simply mistaking where the damage is coming from. E can proc thunderlords and is far more noticeable than other sources of damage, after all.

Nahui1 votes

Under villain or even without the damage Garen can do spinning when one is isolated is rather massive. It also has chase utility in that when escaping, Garen can be damaging the enemy the whole way back. However, you may have a point with maxing Q, but his early game is not the issue. Garen is resting at a better than average performance average win rate wise and overall performance top lane. His early game is not an issue as he is resourceless, retains massive sustain should he choose to, and a devastating silence. He also has an execute ult that under certain conditions can do true damage.

I honestly think Garen is doing just fine.

redniwediS1 votes

He is doing fine, but his spin just isn't his main source of damage for most of the lane phase. It's not bad damage at all, but there are far stronger and more reliable sources of damage for him to focus on early other than his E.

Shonjl2 votes

I think that is the point of Garen. His early game is meant to be shit due to how powerful he gets mid to late game.

The problem with that is S6 due to how screwed up it is, is all early game. There is early game aka laning, then midgame aka teaming and winning. It doesnt help that most of his power comes from actual levels. His spin doesnt get stronger by how many points you put into it as much as how high his level is. You can max it out immediately and it doesnt mean much since until lvl9 and 16 when he spins faster and ticks more, its nothing. His passive also doesnt get good til about 9 as well. Til then its worthless.

I actually agree with this now that I think about it.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

This is similar to asking for Tristana / Vayne buffs early game (they are supposed to be weak early)

redniwediS1 votes

The Juggernaut update traded some of his early game power for late game power. He was fine early game after the update, but meta shifts have made him a rather meh pick.

I've mained Garen since season 1, and yet even with all of this taken into account I don't think Garen needs any changes. He was fine before the Juggernaut update (when in the right hands) and he is fine now after the nerfs following the Juggernaut update. Riot wanted to keep their new additions to him in place and so he had to have strength taken from more reliable portions of his kit to do it.

I'm all for trying to bring Garen back toward the reliable if underwhelming state he had before the Juggernaut update, but I don't want to risk any more nerfs to the reliable portions of his kit. Just let him have his questionable early game and let the meta decide when he is strong or weak.

SwiftKitten881 votes

garen needs a nerf if anything.. i have no idea WHEN he got to be so strong... i don't remember seeing any buffs to helm lately and for as far back as i can remember ha hasn't really been much for an issue. But he is crazy strong now, and i frankly can't figure out why he hurts so freaking much while being that freaking tanky.

LadyRenly1 votes

he deserves a terrible early, he's oppressive

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