No Defense = Poor Gameplay

GigglesO·Mar 18, 2019·99 votes·17,935 views

I don't feel like I'm playing a game of strategy I feel like I'm playing slap jack where the fastest hardest hitting person wins.

This gameplay without proper defense options really makes me feel like I'm just running it down. It isn't that enjoyable just running at the enemy and praying that you have more damage, or that they miss a skill. It is actually surprising that the community isn't even more toxic than it is considering how we all play like we are suicidal maniacs (or completely afk) in game.

My proposal is simple, make tanks durable by making durability items better. When we have champs like tank ekko come back if they are too tanky just mow down their per level damages and give them better ad/ap scaling so they have to build damage to deal damage.

126 Comments

WalkingInACircleMar 18, 201926 votes

It's more than items, base defensive stats should be higher for everyone. Slow down gameplay and let tactics win trades.

dalphy08Mar 18, 201916 votes

I do actually agree that nobody plays defense.

Everybody is just obsessed with these cheap unhonourable "3v1" "gank" kills, instead of protecting the city & its people!

In the original tabletop game, the goal is to protect the towers and villages. That is the #1 goal, NOT pursuing the enemy heroes for personal vendettas!

The thigh guyMar 18, 201915 votes

It’s because only certain classes get to have all this damage, then riot tacked on tank stats to all their items for no actual reason.

Mages average 150 mr and 150 armor and 3000+hp without going crazy far out of their builds.

Bruisers manage 3k hp 400 ad and 200+ in their defensive stats.

Assassins manage 500+ad 2500 hp and about 125 in each resistance.

What do tanks get? 300 in each resistance. 3k hp and that’s about it.

Then account for the stupid amounts of %pen and %shred and %hp damage and it’s no wonder damage is the only thing viable.

GigglesOMar 18, 20199 votes

It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for all of the penetration and true damage. Sadly it just seems like riot doesn't actually care about making this game strategic.

The thigh guyMar 18, 20198 votes

{quoted}

It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for all of the penetration and true damage. Sadly it just seems like riot doesn't actually care about making this game strategic.

Exactly. Rito doesn’t care if the game is fun anymore. They want it to look flashy for all the kiddies.

GlaricionMar 18, 20193 votes

I miss when there were hard choices to be made w/ itemization, and it was alright for some stats to be wasted on the champs that built them.

Now we have even fewer items for AP Bruisers; CDR is breaking Jax; builds are rather cookie-cutter; burst mages still burstin' but now pushing @ max CDR so there's no real downtime; etc...

Starcraft243verMar 18, 20195 votes

Mages average 150 mr and 150 armor and 3000+hp without going crazy far out of their builds.

Wait wat ?

BlackEtherianMar 18, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uE43UWsj,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-18T04:28:45.755+0000)

It’s because only certain classes get to have all this damage, then riot tacked on tank stats to all their items for no actual reason.

Mages average 150 mr and 150 armor and 3000+hp without going crazy far out of their builds.

Bruisers manage 3k hp 400 ad and 200+ in their defensive stats.

Assassins manage 500+ad 2500 hp and about 125 in each resistance.

What do tanks get? 300 in each resistance. 3k hp and that’s about it.

Then account for the stupid amounts of %pen and %shred and %hp damage and it’s no wonder damage is the only thing viable.

I get that you want tanks to feel tanky, but I don't think every tank should be a raid boss Nasus. Seems more toxic than the game already is.

The thigh guyMar 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I get that you want tanks to feel tanky, but I don't think every tank should be a raid boss Nasus. Seems more toxic than the game already is.

Except that’s their job. Tanks are suppose to be difficult to kill cc machines. At the moment they are just there for noobs to pick and some Darius/garen/Irelia/ Insert any bruiser here player to just beat on for daring to pick outside the meta.

BlackEtherianMar 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uE43UWsj,comment-id=000500030000,timestamp=2019-03-18T14:05:52.513+0000)

Except that’s their job. Tanks are suppose to be difficult to kill cc machines. At the moment they are just there for noobs to pick and some Darius/garen/Irelia/ Insert any bruiser here player to just beat on for daring to pick outside the meta.

So what you're implying is that they should have 15000 health with 1000 mr and armor because they don't deserve to die, thus rendering pen items useless. okay, gotcha.

AstrovertMar 18, 20199 votes

Its not that I don't just feel im not playing strategy anymore, I feel actually unhealthy playstyles like inting are now actually encouraged. They actually promote an unhealthy playstyle and are surprised that the communitys toxicity is growing fast.

League isn't for experienced gamers anymore, its for entry level gaming.

Boo Koo GodMar 18, 20195 votes

Well they have dumbed the down game imo with high damage and the changes they made to speed games up.

GigglesOMar 18, 20194 votes

I mean not to say it’s a good idea( I did win the game though)... I got auto filled into jungle and was like fuck it I’ll pick Morde anyways. Enemy akali same gold was doing 1/3 of my hp per hit. Q R R was me dead. Just felt like ass to play.

I wish I could be cool like talon and akali and have one less damage ability but still have the same damage as if I had 4...

Riot just doesn’t power budget utility anymore. Which is why we just go done having akali, Irelia, Asttrox all gutted.

Spacesuit SpiffMar 19, 20194 votes

Back in the day, when one teammate ran around alone trying to oneshot people instead of getting objectives, that could easily cost the game. Nowadays I feel like I'm trolling if I DON'T do that, because odds are someone else is running around casually killing everything in the time it takes to set up anything strategic.

mack9112Mar 18, 20197 votes

what champions do you feel do too much damage and in what situations

rubberduckie666Mar 18, 201963 votes

see this page for a comprehensive guide to which champions do too much damage

GigglesOMar 18, 201925 votes

That is pretty much sums up my experience.

mack9112Mar 18, 20195 votes

Sounds like you don’t play the game

ﬂooMar 18, 201910 votes

So which champs do not deal over the top in your opinion then?

mack9112Mar 18, 20194 votes

many in even situations and especially if you can dodge the correct abilities and position well

Velzard of KozMar 18, 20196 votes

So which champs do not deal over the top in your opinion then?

Not many

ﬂooMar 18, 20193 votes

Exactly. That being Ivern.

FSRERMar 18, 20196 votes

Ohh, how we haven't thought of that?! Indeed, you can dodge Vayne Draven autos so that you will not die! THIS GUY IS A GENIUS!!!!!

[zombie-brand-clap]

mack9112Mar 18, 20192 votes

If you are not condemned and not hit with dravens knock back you should be able to win trades with them or are you just standing there letting them auto you to death ?

FSRERMar 20, 20193 votes

Win trades? what the fuck am i supposed to be playing to win trades vs a draven? Jax?

mack9112Mar 20, 20191 votes

What are you playing ?

FSRERMar 20, 20191 votes

On adc jhin, corki and sometimes lucian. Jhin is, or even better, used to be a adc that was actually a good match for draven but right now is useless. Corki good as always but draven still does insane damage early on and a good draven will never lose to lucian. But no matter, there is no adc that can counter him.

mack9112Mar 20, 20191 votes

You can definitely play Lucian into Draven and it becomes a skill matchup. Jhins early game took a hit as he got too much early strength from HOB so he can’t win early trades and corki is not a very good adc in my opinion and is still a poke champ.

The trick to Draven is not taking long early game trades as he has the upper hand in those but quick bursty trades with cc that can cause him to loose his axes

FSRERMar 21, 20191 votes

Making him lose the axes hasn't any effect anyways, he does not have any mana cost whatsoever so him missing him means nothing and its cd is also very low. Draven mains will also be comfortable with 2 axes so again, making him miss 1 is nothing.

mack9112Mar 21, 20191 votes

From my experience as playing a velkoz support those are the tactics that I use to win trades and they ARE successful

Seijurou AkashiMar 18, 20198 votes

Yes, U dodge Annie's Tibbers and you die to her Q W You dodge Rengar's E and he flashes and kills you with AA You dodge Zoe's Q E, You die to her AA's and W You dodge Fizz's R he kills you with his Q W You dodge Vladimir's E and he kills you with Q You dodge Veigar's Q W he kills you with his R You can dodge whatever you want there will always be one spell that is inevitable to dodge and you will die by it...

GigglesOMar 19, 20194 votes

Better yet you flash zoes q e and she uses your flash and ignite to kill you.

The DreamwalkerMar 18, 20197 votes

{quoted}

see this page for a comprehensive guide to which champions do too much damage

I lowkey expected graphs and charts, but well played.

Livin like RivenMar 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

see this page for a comprehensive guide to which champions do too much damage

Hey, Ivern doesn't belong on this list.

SaiannaMar 18, 20196 votes

I don't feel like I'm playing a game of strategy

This game stopped having ~~any~~ strategy elements like 5-6 seasons ago...

LTK KoRoMar 18, 20194 votes

not true. People believe that building old Thornmail vs any autoattack champion was strategy, but boi it was not.

League NEVER was highly strategic game, and most of the league strategy is now present more than in seasons 1-3. Strategy in league is stuff like wave manipulation, rotations, objective setup, or vision placement. Counterbuilding and counterplay aren't as strategic as people make them to be. Especially counterbuilding, which is as strategic as rock paper scissors

TwitchInMyPantsMar 18, 20194 votes

{quoted}

This game stopped having any strategy elements like 5-6 seasons ago...

Honestly even if we had assassin metas, tank metas, ect none of them were less strategic than this one. S3 and S4 still had lots of tactics involved. S5 had lots of broken shit but it still involved a variety of strategy and late season ended up being one of the most balanced recent seasons. S7 and S8 were total dogshit when it came to balance and tactics.

Saying the game was awful in the strategy 5-6 seasons ago is a total exaggeration. Just because Malphite wasn't literally unkillable like S1-2 doesn't mean tanks weren't valuable nor does it mean there wasn't an acceptable amount of strategy and depth to the game.

facemelter710Mar 18, 20195 votes

Only Nerf champs for 5 patches. And buff defense items. Reduce true damage. Also. Why does Garen have a silence?

Sebastit7dMar 18, 201913 votes

Why does Garen have a silence?

Because he has absolutely no other cc and has literally no gap closer besides a shitty speed boost?

Done25Mar 18, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Why does Garen have a silence?

Because Demacia hates mages. It's literally so he can kill mages more easily.

Jennifer420Mar 18, 20195 votes

hm... since season 6 about every 1-3 days we get a post like this with several upvotes ALL THE TIME yet rito ignores us. also rito be like: i dont get why our community is so angry atr us :/

FSRERMar 18, 20194 votes

Defence or not, who cares? Lethality exsists, so does magic penetration, so does true damage. You can have 1k armor on rammus and vane still burst you in 4 secs

Iota ThetaMar 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Defence or not, who cares? Lethality exsists, so does magic penetration, so does true damage. You can have 1k armor on rammus and vane still burst you in 4 secs

Well, building defenses would actually help with the Lethality. Lethality is flat and is countered by building armor. %pen and true damage..that’s a different story

DraehlMar 18, 20194 votes

I just want a game where fights either naturally last longer or we have a choice to build tank items (on non tanks) to reasonably live longer like in season 4-5. Longer fights are just more fun and move the emphasis from vision/catching out to playing well over a longer period of time during team fights- repositioning, chasing, using multiple skill rotations, etc.

I really, really miss playing offtank Bard in these long fights back in the day. Stun, drop a health pack near ADC, Magical Journey behind the enemy flank to setup the next stun, hold Tempered Fate for a great catch or escape, Stun, Journey away, etc. Nowadays I can carry a game MUCH harder with Bard due to his early damage, but I actually prefer the more beefy/utilitarian playstyle that is durable enough to setup those flanking plays I just can't do any more since I die if an ADC/Mage/Assassin/Fighter so much as looks at me. Raw burst damage is boring, one dimensional, and ultimately selfish.

Beacon AcademyMar 19, 20194 votes

"When we have champs like tank ekko come back"

Good Base Damage, Low Ratios = Champions that are able to deal damage even while going tank

Low Base Damage, Good Ratios = Champions that are inclined to build damage items

I never understood how Riot managed to fuck these things up in the first place tbh

Literally if you want champions to be inclined to build damage, have them scale well only with offensive items (By this I mean don't make it so that their base damage can outdamage whatever the ratio can do if they decide to go tank over damage)

If you want champions to build tanky, make it so damage items aren't worth it on them.

It isn't rocket science and it never was.

GigglesOMar 19, 20194 votes

Exactly. Balance jokes aside that’s why things like Yasuo getting double crit is a balance issue. Gives him absurdly good damage while leaving the rest of his item slots open.

UrFieryDoomMar 18, 20192 votes

if you wanna do damage i wouldnt spam morde but hey i am a fan of old morde. Try playing skirmishers(jax) you will see a difference cause jax blocks all aa aka counters adcs.

GigglesOMar 18, 201913 votes

Its not about wanting to do damage, its about wanting to be beefy enough that I don't die to the first person that sneezes at me.

Samuel MurphyMar 18, 20191 votes

I think buffing Def Items is sort of dangerous. If someone can buy 1 def Item and just be really safe while also dishing out a lot of dmg it is scary.

I Think it would be better to just tone down the amount of Penetration/true damage in the game. I am ok with lots of Dmg as long as building against it actually works.

I miss full tank nautilus support :(

Crescent DuskMar 18, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Samuel Murphy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uE43UWsj,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2019-03-18T16:32:35.237+0000)

I think buffing Def Items is sort of dangerous. If someone can buy 1 def Item and just be really safe while also dishing out a lot of dmg it is scary.

I Think it would be better to just tone down the amount of Penetration/true damage in the game. I am ok with lots of Dmg as long as building against it actually works.

I miss full tank nautilus support :(

Tank items are fine. They just need to nerf true damage availability and many meta offensive items that are ballooning damage out of control.

Just youtube Talon's old video from 7 years ago of the video spotlight series and you'll see how ridiculous damage has gotten in this game by comparison.

An Ahri is landing a charm and with electrocute doing 60%+ of your health in a single trade as of the current patch. That kind of burst was simply not happening in earlier seasons.

Lanes are now decided by a single bad trade or maybe two and there's no getting back after those unless your jungler is camping the lane to get you back in.