Cerealboxofdoom i need you. Or someone who knows about armor pen

Rivuo·Jul 28, 2016·1 votes·311 views

Lord dom is 45% bonus armor pen right

So what if the whole enemy team has zhonyas and 1 person has dead mans + randuins

So zhonyas is 45 armor. They have a base of 35 armor each with armor runes.

Does that mean Ghostblade is better than lord dom for the people with zhonyas? You'd be taking 20 off 80 armor + having an active Since lord dom would only take 45% of 45 which is 20..

For the deadmans + randuins lord dom would essentially be better because 45% of 110 armor would be 50 instead of ghostblade which would take away 20 correct?

6 Comments

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 28, 20163 votes

% pen is calculated before flat penetration

I forget the math so I guess I'll just do it again and you'll see the pattern

at 35 armor 45% is

15.75 penetration

at 85 armor when old black cleaver was optimal 45% is 38.25

the old 35% penetration actually wasn't very effective until like 125 armor.

so the equation to figure out where one becomes better than the other using this line of thought is this

item 3142 = item 3036

60AD + 20 penetration = 50 + 45% penetration

and

20 penetration = 45% penetration

going to add the ideal scenarios to 2 more things in a sec (referring to passive and active)

ok lets start with the easy one

20 penetration is 45% of something

x * .45 = 20 x = 20/.45

x = 44.4444444444

so ignoring cost effectiveness and other things like passives and actives and attack power LDR is more effective after 44.4444 armor for penetrating armor

before I continue lets have a look at the actual equations though. I'm going to give you something, I don't know what it will look like as I type this, I'll give you a separator and the answer that you can copy paste into google to get better results since there's no actual finite number of significant values to deal with (you should get a graph if you have java on your computer)

first the penetration formula, mind your order of operations, inside parenthesis first and multiply/divide before add/subtract

raw damage * modifier = total damage

modifier = 100 / (100 + armor - (armor * % penentration + flat penetration))

ghostblade is

60 raw damage + champion base damage or really any other damage they have. I'll account for this later

so 60 * 100/(100+x-(x*0+20)) = youmu's plotline

then for LDR its 50 * 100(100+x-(x*.45+0) = LDR

Then if you want to include the passives, LDR gives up to 15% more physical damage and youmu's gives 40% attack speed and cdr and some other stuff but right now I'm looking only at damage, the utility wont be considered

item 3142 alone is 60 * 100/(100+x-(x0+20)) but add say 70 base damage and you get 130 * 100/(100+x-(x0+20))

x = armor

plug this into google for several plotlines based on damage or just play around with any one of these separated by commas by changing the values, remember that x = enemy armor and the first number is your total AD or the damage on your ability. Whichever works.

60 * 100/(100+x-(x0+20)), 50 * 100/(100+x-(x.45+0)), 1.4*(60)100/(100+x-(x0+20)) , 1.15*(50)100/(100+x-(x.45+0))

respectively these 4 represent

item 3142 vanilla damage, item 3036 vanilla damage, ideal effective damage with active on, ideal effective damage with passive considered

conclusion

in terms of raw damage at any instance in time I believe that against a player with zhonyas in a realistic scenario LDR will pretty much always deal more damage unless your abilities have extremely high scaling with AD, so much that 10 AD makes a huge difference

youmus becomes better if you have some sort of AS or MS scaling but that's a different story, it also gives CDR which increases damage over time

realistically the difference in damage of LDR is unlikely to overcome the utility of Youmus especially since youmu's doesn't care what the enemy builds and LDR depends on them having a lot more stats than you but LDR has more damage potential overall in ideal scenerios AND the worst case scenario if I was reading the chart right

ArakadiaJul 28, 20161 votes

My hand might have broken from scrolling. But I'm sure the OP is happy with ur response.

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 28, 20161 votes

TL;DR

after 44.4444 armor ignoring bonus stats/actives LDR gives more penetration

in most cases LDR gives more damage as well but not a lot. The difference is like 10-50 I think. But that's before you consider actual scaling, LDR has less to scale with.

Assuming youmu's gives you 40% more damage and LDR is giving you the 15% bonus LDR is still better

But ultimately it depends on what sort of damage you want to deal

VesarixxJul 28, 20162 votes

It's worth noting that runes also contribute to bonus armor, so with zhonias and armor seals they would have 54 armor, Ghostblade does have 10 more AD than either last whisper item, so against a target with that amount of armor the difference is going to be small enough that it doesn't matter, in this situation it will probably come down to how your champion deals damage and what the enemy team looks like, if you deal sustained damage and the enemy team has a front line like Malphite, Sion or Swain, then a last whisper item will be better, if your champion deals burst damage but not great sustained damage then you probably won't be the main person in taking down the front line and should be going for the squishier back line, in which case ghostblade would be the better choice.

ReshiKillimJul 28, 20161 votes

Yes, Ghostblade would be better if they only had Zhonya's.

If they had DMP and Randuin's Dominik's would definitely be better in terms of armor pen.

FlahertyJul 28, 20161 votes

The Last Whisper items (Lord Dominik's Regards and Mortal Reminder) give 45% armor pen for bonus armor, so if they only have Zhonya's that's 20.25 armor pen because 45% of 45 is 20.25. Youmuu's gives a flat 20 armor pen. So if the enemy has 45 bonus armor or more, the Last Whisper items provide more armor penetration than Youmuu's.