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To everyone saying Karthus ult doesn't need change, most of you don't even play Karthus.

Vhan8765··7 votes·688 views

I'm not gonna get too into this because Riot simply doesn't seem to care about Karthus at all, but I just want to point out how funny it is that everyone who says Karthus' ult doesn't need to be change doesn't even play the champion nor has any clue on how to properly play him. If you don't know the subject material being talked about then clearly your opinion on the matter is flawed. If you main Lee Sin, chances are you don't know how Karthus plays. The same in reverse; if you main Karthus, chances are you aren't the best Lee Sin player. (That being a very general example mind you.)

When those of us who do play Karthus a lot are clearly banding together, agreeing that his ultimate is in a state where it needs to be changed, clearly we are the most likely to know what we're talking about. It's just common sense; the more you know on the subject, the more you're able to accurately identify what the problems are and what is a good way to fix it. And this goes both ways; there are tons of people who don't play Karthus as well who are suggestion tons of buff that are just absolutely ridiculous, unfair, or just downright broken.

The moral of the story here; unless you know what you're talking about, don't join in at the Adult's Table. Leave the Karthus discussions to the players who actually play Karthus. Sure, chime in if someone is spouting out a bunch of bullshit (everyone who wants to just make Karthus' ult unblockable, you know you're being ridiculous), but when someone is suggesting a slight buff that is good, don't call them out on it when you don't know what would be appropriate or not yourself.

Speak up when appropriate and be quiet when you should. To quote Illaoi, "We cannot comprehend the design. A raindrop cannot comprehend a river valley."

10 Comments

Big Lincoln2 votes

changes for one champion affect the rest of us

karthus is fine where he is and he'll continue to be fine after preseason

WoonStruck2 votes

His laning is fine, his teamfighting is still god-like.

Where's the issue?

If you don't think his ult does enough, you aren't using a decent build.

Vhan87652 votes

To be 100% honest with you, I personally don't think Karthus is in a bad spot at all. I admit his ult is definitely not nearly as useful nor effective as it once was, but isn't the worst and can easily be one of the best in the game if used properly.

However though, with the various amounts of counters and continual decreasing play rate he has, I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world to see some changes to his ultimate alone. The rest of his kit is absolutely amazing still; Karthus can easily solo carry his team if the player knows what he is doing.

But the community is currently outraged and I just wanted to point out that 90% of the people discussing Karthus don't even play him. That is why I didn't actually even touch on any of his abilities throughout all this. I knew I'd be downvoted to oblivion, that is most of what the gameplay Board is, but none the less I wanted to maybe open the eyes of a few people the fact that there very few players who actually know what they're talking about and those few should perhaps be taken more seriously. Though I guess knowing I'd be downvoted and not taken seriously makes this whole post simply ironic.

Mr Carbon1 votes

I find his niche gameplay as a global farming top laner (Similar to GP) fine right now. A few quality buffs might be helpful, but he is still a late game time bomb like before.

I would hate to see the meta where you could blind pick Karthus

Vhan87653 votes

The rest of his kit is perfectly fine, but his ultimate is clearly in a state where is just isn't doing its job in any form.

Even GP ult comes up more frequent than Karthus' ult; not to mention GP's ult at the very least can be used for great wave clear whereas Karthus ult only touches champion.

Desolas Arterius2 votes

I think it's because of that reason you stated right there: "Ult only touches champions".

Remember, it's not an ult like GP that players can avoid or run out of. Karthus's ult tracks and can hit you anywhere. The only way to avoid it is to shield yourself or become invulnerable (Zhonya's, etc). I think that's the major issue with balancing. Because you literally cannot avoid it without very specific ways of doing so, whereas GP you can simply walk out of it, flash out of it, etc. It doesn't require having specific items or champions to avoid like Karthus's Ult does.

That might be the issue with the balancing, and why it can't be as strong. Maybe if they gave it the Soraka ult treatment of being % based instead of flat damage it might be healthier, which makes it stronger the lower the enemies are

I do love playing me some Karthus, even took him in the jungle for silly fun, but I don't think his ult right now needs buffs. What it needs is changes to how it works since it's pretty unhealthy gameplay wise, so it probably makes balancing a nightmare :/

Vhan87653 votes

This is actually insanely perspective. To be honest, I entirely agree with you. I personally never thought Karthus' ult needs any form of buffs, I personally think it simply needs to be changed entirely.

Like you stated, going against an enemy where certain items are a requirement just don't feel right to play against on both sides. Karthus players feel easily countered yet players against Karthus feel like they have an item slot stolen from them. It's just an entirely unfun situation all around the board.

It's these kind of things people don't seem to be acknowledging. It's not that Karthus' ult is bad, it's that it's in a position where it's not doing any form of job it was intended to do. It's not a good execute, it can't be used to wave clear; the only good part of it is that Karthus himself doesn't need to leave lane to use it properly but that factor is no longer a saving grace with all the changes League has undergone over the years.

Desolas Arterius2 votes

I think they aren't acknowledging it because of how you worded it haha. It was pretty off-putting I wont lie, and this is coming from someone who does play Karthus every here and there.

I think the reason why people aren't happy about these threads is because they aren't really addressing positive/plausible change. Making it invulnerable to shield, buffing the damage, etc, isn't going to fix the glaring issues it has.

What Karthus really needs is an ability update. He did receive a visual update, but his kit stayed the same and isn't all that healthy. At least ult wise. His ult is very "meh" and doesn't work that well considering it's just flat damage that can't be buffed because of the issue that it can't be avoided. While his other abilities work fine, his ult struggles because of what I described earlier. It just wont work and has to stay weak due to the lack of counterplay available. Not to mention killing Karthus doesn't prevent his ult from going off, so counterplay against it is almost impossible with very specific items/champions. It's really unfortunate because it's such a unique ult, but due to the almost non-existent counterplay it has it has to remain weak in order to be fair to both teams.

Making it Health % based might help, and instead force Karthus to use it wisely. It wont hurt enemies that are half/full health, but it'll execute the ones below, say, 25% to make it effective. Similar to how Soraka's global healing works since it's only effective the lower health the allies are. But again, that would require a rework of his ult and abilities to balance out his power and create more fair weaknesses for enemies to exploit outside of "Better bring a morg or build a zhonya's if you want to live"

Perhaps that's what these threads are missing? Just my opinion though. I'm all for healthy discussions of champs and possible changes that could work. But I mostly don't see that :P

Also, never tell people they can't offer changes if they don't play a champ.. They've played against it, so they know something haha. All that matters is if their suggestion is legitimate or makes sense. Because even mains will make suggestions that are stupid xD Discussions should be open to everyone! As long as it's kept respectable >_>;

Vhan87653 votes

[{quoted}](name=Desolas Arterius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u8Qn91EF,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-26T17:40:20.043+0000)

I think they aren't acknowledging it because of how you worded it haha. It was pretty off-putting I wont lie, and this is coming from someone who does play Karthus every here and there.

Also, never tell people they can't offer changes if they don't play a champ.. They've played against it, so they know something haha. All that matters is if their suggestion is legitimate or makes sense. Because even mains will make suggestions that are stupid xD Discussions should be open to everyone! As long as it's kept respectable >_>;

Fair enough on both points. I admit this is perhaps a degree ruder than intended but it's pretty early for me. >.> Not that that is an acceptable excuse for coming off rude, but when I forgot I was making a soup during this that got cold now, I think it's mentionable at least haha. '.'

Thank you though for taking the time to seriously read and reply to this all; I truly do appreciate everything you had to say and offer to this post. :3

Desolas Arterius1 votes

Hey no worries :) Cold soup is literally the worst so I understand haha. But yeah, just be careful how your attitude might translate over text. Harder to pick up intent online compared to speaking. You might have meant well, but it didn't come off that way to others reading.

And of course! I do love me some Karthus, and I enjoy having discussions about possible champion changes :3 Healthy discussions are always a fun way of waking up, and helps expand your mind and opinions to views you never thought of~ o:

More than happy to talk about anything else though~

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