Why are brand new players automatically put in silver elo

MÖRTIMER·Apr 26, 2016·7 votes·1,933 views

Just had a match today. where the majority of my team was unranked. But one guy stood out. Literally, his first pvp match ever he was put into my game on my team. Of course he fed and sucked. and of course the enemy team was all silver or high bronze. as they should be because that is my elo. BUT WHY, is a brand new player in my elo?? I understand that Silver rank is nothing to brag about. But there is no reason that guy should have been in my game. This is why I dont do ranked. And why i rarely play now. Because literally every game i get that. Unranked or brand new players. and it is impossible to carry that shit. Its not even fun. Nothing against the new players. Its the damn elo and queue system.

29 Comments

TormentulaApr 26, 20163 votes

It's the way mmr is, bronze isn't a beginner elo, it's an elo you drop in when you don't know what you're doing (or atleast was that way before dynamic q just placed everybody that was silver in bronze), your base MMR starts in silver elo, and your placements dictate what rank you start in, and your performance decides if you rise, drop, or stay where you're at. It's kinda the reason why people hate silver... not every player deserves bronze after placements but not every veteran deserves to work with bronze-in-the-making either.

LostFr0stApr 26, 20162 votes

Why is it wrong to put them in silver for their first match? Within the first few placements it puts them closer and closer to their current skill level; that's what placements are for. It'd be dumb if they didn't start in Silver.

MÖRTIMERApr 26, 20162 votes

Or how bout. Start them with ONLY other new players, that way everyone learns basic game mechanics. If they want to learn more complex things, they can go watch streams like I did. That way they arent in my game trying to learn how to play during the death timer screen and ruining my game experience. These unranked players. There arent doing placements. They arent even doing ranked. Im talking about just normal draft pick.

MotrColtApr 26, 20162 votes

start them with only new players? you mean like they do levels 1-30?

MÖRTIMERApr 26, 20162 votes

Im not a new player. I am a 3 season player. So clearly they aren't starting them with new players

MotrColtApr 26, 20162 votes

They start them with the new levels 1-30. Once they play ranked you're in with everyone. If you've been playing since season 3 and are still silver, sorry to say you belong there. Make changes and improve instead of stop blaming everyone else. Teams balance out in the long run, you're the only common denominator in your matches

MÖRTIMERApr 26, 20162 votes

You wanna know the real reason Im not in a higher elo? Cause everyones go to excuse is saying that I belong in silver. here is the real reason. Because I dont play ranked anymore. Literally stopped playing ranked so long ago. I only do it for placement and then I stop playing. X) I dont try to climb because of shit like this

MotrColtApr 26, 20161 votes

So if you don't play ranked this isn't a problem for you and thus you don't really have the tools to make an informed decision. You just argued against yourself. That's all I have to say.

H 3Apr 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So if you don't play ranked this isn't a problem for you and thus you don't really have the tools to make an informed decision. You just argued against yourself. That's all I have to say.

Well you can not endure it but still know how it is or have knowledge of it to make a decision about things. Also going by probability its possible to flip a coin 50 times and land on heads 40 times although very rare its possible. Same with getting bad teammates more often than the enemy. There is 4 other players on your team and 5 on theirs the odds are in your favor or less likely to get trolls but it doesn't always work that way. Now in the long run it does but under a few hundred games its very possible to not have the teams in your favor.

MotrColtApr 26, 20161 votes

Been in silver since season 3, pretty sure he's complaining about over 100 games now and we're definitely in the realm of long run.

LostFr0stApr 26, 20161 votes

How to tell a smurf from a new player though? It would be the same.
Both teams end up with new players anyways so they should be allowed to learn from those who came before them.

Are you suggesting they should sit there in queue for an eternity waiting for other new players which just happen to be queueing up at the same time for the other roles? I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with that.

Wait- you're complaining about normal draft pick? Draft pick mmr isn't remotely close to the person's ranked mmr. My brother is Silver 1 (just placed) and finished Gold V last season. He faces Plat III+ in normal Draft pick. There's also the part where a new player queues with their friend. Where to put them?

Maximum MordeApr 26, 20161 votes

The way ELO systems work is by placing new entrants at the mid point of the system because that is the best estimate you can make with 0 data. You assume they are of average skill and put them there. They then go up or down fairly quickly depending on skill. Changing their start point would alter the mid point of the entire pool to that spot over time. At some point Rito said, hey, let's have silver be the mid point, and so it was.

Darth SidioussApr 26, 20162 votes

I think new players should be starting from bottom and working and learning on way to the top honestly , this MMR thing for new players is just backwards as fuck.

Maximum MordeApr 26, 20161 votes

That wouldn't work. Wherever they start from becomes the new mid point because people fall from losing when they start. That is just how the match works on an ELO system. You'd just make bronze 5 the new midpoint with a bunch of people bronze 65,000 in the same rank as the average player who will be bronze 5.

Restless SlumberApr 26, 20162 votes

When I got places in Silver last season I would always get upset when I would get these people on my team. I then demoted to Silver V because I couldn't handle it in silver IV. Around late October last year I started learning the game rather than worrying about my bad teammates. Today I'm platinum. You really shouldn't worry about these players, but instead learn how to carry them. I'll let you know first hand that I still get these players on my team in plat, but low elo games are easier because the enemies don't know how to exploit this weakness. Stop blaming, start learning.

MÖRTIMERApr 26, 20161 votes

Upvoted. Bro I need Jesus and Buddha to not get upset. I mean I work my ass off to get better, and then I get paired with people who dont know how to play. (Literally) and it just kills my moral. But I will start today and try your method.

Restless SlumberApr 26, 20161 votes

Btw, I saw in another comment that you mentioned you're a season 3 player. I started last season after Ekko was released. If you want to improve fast like I did then I would recommend watching Dekar173. He's a challenger level player and a master at stomping low elo (and high elo :D).

Kal Vas FlamApr 26, 20162 votes

It is quite frustrating for Silver players. Never knowing when you're going to get a legit noob that has no idea what he/she is doing. They should take the number of games played into account in addition to MMR. Been saying this for 5 years.

MotrColtApr 26, 20161 votes

I am of the opinion that for the most part you play to the ability of those around you after a certain amount of time and to a certain extent.

I think if a gold 3 player were to play all diamond 1 matches for a month, he would get absolutely crushed, but when he went back to gold 3 he would climb pretty fast, at first at least, due to the glaring differences that he is now very aware of.

I think riot doesn't want to stick people in bronze initially and just have them never experience higher (is silver really higher?) game play. With the current system if you start in silver and go to bronze, there is no one to blame but yourself for the most part. But riot can't just put everyone in gold or platinum to start, even though I think it would help some individual players skill level, because every time someone got demoted to bronze they would just make a new account and go to gold/platinum again instead of grinding out of bronze.

The current system gives players a chance to do good and learn initially but also is not too supportive of them to prevent abuse

MÖRTIMERApr 26, 20162 votes

Honestly though that makes no sense. Put them in a higher elo so they can just die die die instead of learning the basic (very basic) mechanics of the game. Like farming, or warding, or not dying. It is also completely unfair for people trying to climb to have to play with that. Literally the reason I can't climb is because I get placed with new players and it just isn't fair.

MotrColtApr 26, 20161 votes

That is what level 1-30 are for, learning basics, at least that's what they are intended for.. If they have not learned to do that by then they will not be in silver for long. But it does give players a chance instead of instantly putting them at bottom and saying good luck.

If you don't want to constantly deal with new players in silver, improve and get to gold.

MÖRTIMERApr 26, 20162 votes

I try to get to gold. But I get paired with these new players every ranked match. And trust me when I say EVERY ranked match I mean it. I dont hate the players. I hate the system.

MotrColtApr 26, 20161 votes

you get stuck with them just as much as the other team, all in all team balancing evens out in the end except for yourself, causing yourself to be the only difference in the long run.

Maximum MordeApr 26, 20161 votes

Cause it's the mid point and elo systems work by starting people at the mid point.

Colgate GatorApr 26, 20161 votes

Because Silver is basically the default ranking, not bronze.

Bronze is basically the bottom of the barrel, you're underperforming in the ranking system.

GoldenMeanApr 26, 20161 votes

The real problem is that it's hard to drop out of silver if you're placed there in your provisionals.

CoolKnightSTApr 26, 20161 votes

Only 60% of the playerbase plays ranked
- 34% of those players are in bronze
- 38% are in silver
- 18% are in gold
- 7% are in plat
- 2% are in diamond
- The remaining (less than 1%) are in master/challenger