Just had a game with a 3 man premade.
Leona Mid Shyvanna Support and a Taliyah JG
Leona fed hard core. Shyvanna wouldnt stop going in and dying to creep wave aggro. Taliyah just stood up for them. I got caught in the crossfire and somehow got flamed for being useless. Im not even mad that I did bad or lost. Just that I got flamed by a group even though I was doing nothing to provoke them. Really is quite tilting.
Critmaster Garen54 votesthis is only part of it.
wait until you play against a team of well organized premades, with one at your side who tries to carry their shitty bronze friends up to plat or diamond, and cant compensate for his constant mistakes.
PiVoRx52 votesPlaying against 3+ man premades when your team is pure solo is utmost worst.
Nameless Voice19 votesOddly, while this is extremely annoying, I've noticed that I tend to win these games in the end.
Early on, the enemy team drive me mad with constant whole-team ganks, like the moment our jungler appears bot, their entire team rushes in or teleports.
But then, after the laning phase, they tend to lose because they are not actually that good at the game itself. They reached this MMR by abusing dynamic queue and unfair use of voice chat, but don't actually have the level of skill for that MMR.
Still, those games tend not to be much fun, consisting as they do of a one-sided stomp on one direction, turning around into a one-sided stomp in the other.
PiVoRx2 votesYes those games can be won, if your mentally and phisically destroyed bot lane wont afk. But most of the time its extremely difficult and it shouldnt work in the way that one team is in disadvantage even before game begins.
Nameless Voice4 votesI actually think the problem isn't entirely dynamic queue, but rather voice comms. That's what really gives those large premades the unfair advantage.
If I were to pick a bunch of people to play with, I'd still be at a huge disadvantage because we'd just be a bunch of solo-queuers playing together with known-decent players - we still wouldn't have that huge communication advantage that friends on voice chat do.
iamthegoatofwar3 votesvoice chat is NOT unfair. everything else is valid but don't call voice chat unfair.
Nameless Voice23 votesWhat? Of course one team having voice chat when the other doesn't is an unfair advantage. Those players can communicate with each other instantly, even in the heat of battle when there's no time to type. The ping system that people without voice chat need to use is far more limited in the scope of what you can convey through it.
Voice chat is a far bigger advantage than any other part of dynamic queue.
KillerKell5 votes[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ekvx007z,comment-id=00000000000000010001,timestamp=2016-05-31T13:50:34.429+0000)
What? Of course one team having voice chat when the other doesn't is an unfair advantage. Those players can communicate with each other instantly, even in the heat of battle when there's no time to type. The ping system that people without voice chat need to use is far more limited in the scope of what you can convey through it.
Voice chat is a far bigger advantage than any other part of dynamic queue.
Except Voice Chat is a CHOICE... so if you aren't using it, that's on you.
It's fair, because everyone CAN use it. It's there, available, in Curse or Team Speak or so many other VO/IP programs for free.
Yes, even 5 random people can join a game and CHOOSE to Team Chat.
Novel idea, isn't it?
Nameless Voice18 votesBy that same logic, before Riot clarified things and cracked down on third-party applications, everyone could have things like third-party jungle timers and so on, if they installed them. That didn't meant that the people using them didn't have an unfair advantage over those who weren't.
Malfini3 votes[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ekvx007z,comment-id=0000000000000001000100010000,timestamp=2016-05-31T15:11:29.252+0000)
By that same logic, before Riot clarified things and cracked down on third-party applications, everyone could have things like third-party jungle timers and so on, if they installed them. That didn't meant that the people using them didn't have an unfair advantage over those who weren't.
Are you responding on the correct thread?
Terchio14 votesYes he is. He's talking about jungle timers when you look at the scoreboard, if you don't understand. That mechanic was implemented solely because players were installing that mechanic separately in high numbers, and it left players not using that 3rd party feature behind, similar to the Voice Chat unfairness sentiment going on.
In fact, Riot even stated they'd felt the timers were a bad thing to implement, I believe because of clutter and the "skill" it takes to keep memory of when the camps do return, plus the team coordination involved in alerting the team of objectives returning. They ultimately decided to add the timers because the 3rd party usage of them ended up being unfair, and so they implemented the mechanic.
It is quite the valid point. 3rd party timers were deemed an unfair advantage, despite everybody and their dog being able to install it. Another example would be LoL's predecessor, DotA, and the parent game, Warcraft III. Anyone could install Maphack, a program that reveals the entire map the entire game. However, just because it was accessible, that doesn't make it fair, by any means. This includes if, like in the jungle timer scenario, Riot had "accepted" the use of them, should they detect its usage. Even then they decided to crack down on the spread of unfair advantages, though maybe seemingly small.
KillerKell2 votesYes he is. He's talking about jungle timers when you look at the scoreboard, if you don't understand. That mechanic was implemented solely because players were installing that mechanic separately in high numbers, and it left players not using that 3rd party feature behind, similar to the Voice Chat unfairness sentiment going on.
In fact, Riot even stated they'd felt the timers were a bad thing to implement, I believe because of clutter and the "skill" it takes to keep memory of when the camps do return, plus the team coordination involved in alerting the team of objectives returning. They ultimately decided to add the timers because the 3rd party usage of them ended up being unfair, and so they implemented the mechanic.
It is quite the valid point.
The only valid point is that Riot should have an In-Client Voice Service.
They've made it abundantly clear that Voice Chats are Legal and Acceptable. They even endorse Curse.
They didn't endorse those 3rd Party Timers, and made it clear that didn't want them used for the very reasons stated.
That's sort of where the analogy ends... Riot openly endorses one thing but condemned the other.
Voice is open and available for all of us, we just have to choose to use it.
But yes, Riot should absolutely have an In-Client Service.
EfficientDynamo12 votesThey haven't always endorsed voice chat, and a large reason behind their support for voice chat was that they couldn't stop it. All voice chat requires is skype, and doesn't need to access any of the game files in LoL, whereas all the other 3rd party programs do need that access. Riot can hardly monitor whether you were running skype concurrently with LoL, so they decided to legitimize what they couldn't control.
YuBlade6 votesBut the thing is, say you get into a game and then you find out it's a premade, where do you find the time to tab-out of league and make a Curse lobby to do voice chat? You don't, you have to keep playing to keep up with the enemy team.
I think that's why people find it unfair. It's because you can't just click a button and instantly use voice chat while you are in a game. Meanwhile, the premade already has their voice comms all working and ready to use.
KillerKell3 votesBut the thing is, say you get into a game and then you find out it's a premade, where do you find the time to tab-out of league and make a Curse lobby to do voice chat? You don't, you have to keep playing to keep up with the enemy team.
I think that's why people find it unfair. It's because you can't just click a button and instantly use voice chat while you are in a game. Meanwhile, the premade already has their voice comms all working and ready to use.
Does it matter if the other team is Pre Made or not? If your goal is to have Better Communication, then ask your Team to join Chat every game. Not just games against Pre Mades. Because plenty of Randoms use it to enhance their game play as well.
So don't just use it to counter Pre Made Groups... use it all the time.
Curse is very easy to use, just send the Link during Ban/Pick so they can Copy/Paste.
So the key here is to simply not wait and find out if it's a Pre Made or not... already be doing it and you're never 'behind' , 'finding out it's a pre made'.
Fovere7 votesDoes it matter if the other team is Pre Made or not? If your goal is to have Better Communication, then ask your Team to join Chat every game. Not just games against Pre Mades. Because plenty of Randoms use it to enhance their game play as well.
So don't just use it to counter Pre Made Groups... use it all the time.
Curse is very easy to use, just send the Link during Ban/Pick so they can Copy/Paste.
So the key here is to simply not wait and find out if it's a Pre Made or not... already be doing it and you're never 'behind' , 'finding out it's a pre made'.
Yeah, it matters.
Trying to encourage use of an external program all the time as means of compensating for in game matchmaking counters your own argument.
Premade groups behave differently, voice chat or no. There is far more focus an attention on each other than the rest of the game. It's not a question of whether they play better or worse, because it can go either way.
The point is that it changes the dynamic of the game, and the stability. It changes what a solo player can and cannot do with respect to the team and the game at large. It's just not fun, no matter the outcome.
All this crap about "its a team game" - a team is five players, not 2 or 3 or 4. So the only queues that really make sense are solo and five man which is probably why that's what we had for 6 years running.
KillerKell2 votesYeah, it matters.
"Not really."
Trying to encourage use of an external program all the time as means of compensating for in game matchmaking counters your own argument.
"Umm, no it doesn't. It simply shows that both Pre Made Groups and Random Solo can all use Voice Chat to enhance their Communication."
Premade groups behave differently, voice chat or no. There is far more focus an attention on each other than the rest of the game. It's not a question of whether they play better or worse, because it can go either way.
"Then perhaps Solo Players should start behaving differently... you know, behaving like a Team. Instead of 5 Individuals that find themselves on the same side of the Rift. Perhaps the Solo Players should decide to put more focus on each other instead of simply caring about themselves?"
The point is that it changes the dynamic of the game, and the stability. It changes what a solo player can and cannot do with respect to the team and the game at large. It's just not fun, no matter the outcome.
"Which is the point. Stop playing like you are Solo. You have four other Team Mates. Start using them, start working with them. Play like a freaking Team. Learn to work together. But then, this has ALWAYS been true."
All this crap about "its a team game" - a team is five players, not 2 or 3 or 4. So the only queues that really make sense are solo and five man which is probably why that's what we had for 6 years running.
"And yet there you are, on the Rift... with a TEAM of Five. It's up to you to decide to work like a team or not to. It really is THAT simply. Just like a game of Pick Up Basketball... you either decide to work together, or you fail. Of course, same is true for an Organized Team that refuses to work together... they Fail. So whether Solo or Pre Made, the moral of the story is Play As A Team. Work Together."
"Basically, all you are doing is making excuses to not work together within a Team Dynamic. Then wondering why a Team Game isn't working out for you."
Fovere4 votes"Not really." "Umm, no it doesn't. It simply shows that both Pre Made Groups and Random Solo can all use Voice Chat to enhance their Communication." "Then perhaps Solo Players should start behaving differently... you know, behaving like a Team. Instead of 5 Individuals that find themselves on the same side of the Rift. Perhaps the Solo Players should decide to put more focus on each other instead of simply caring about themselves?" "Which is the point. Stop playing like you are Solo. You have four other Team Mates. Start using them, start working with them. Play like a freaking Team. Learn to work together. But then, this has ALWAYS been true."
"And yet there you are, on the Rift... with a TEAM of Five. It's up to you to decide to work like a team or not to. It really is THAT simply. Just like a game of Pick Up Basketball... you either decide to work together, or you fail. Of course, same is true for an Organized Team that refuses to work together... they Fail. So whether Solo or Pre Made, the moral of the story is Play As A Team. Work Together."
"Basically, all you are doing is making excuses to not work together within a Team Dynamic. Then wondering why a Team Game isn't working out for you."
Except I'm not there with a "team" of five.
I'm there with a "team" of 4, and me. Or a "team" of 3, one other person, and me.
Calling a cow a duck won't make it lay eggs.
Being thrown in with four other strangers encourages far more across-the-board teamplay than being thrown in with a premade group.
KetiaX1 votesVoice chat with 4 other random people vs voice chat with 4 of your friends.
Which one will have stories about each other's mothers, I wonder?
KillerKell1 votesVoice chat with 4 other random people vs voice chat with 4 of your friends.
Which one will have stories about each other's mothers, I wonder?
Well, sure. I mean with 4 of my friends we'll likely have more Fun... but there is a slight double-edge sword here, and one I've been part of.
Where the Pre-Made is having so much fun with the Chat, while relying on it for our Communication (thus not Pinging) that we forget to actually communicate on time and effectively because... well, we're simply having to much fun talking smack.
Don't get me wrong. We're still playing to win. We're still doing our thing... but then it's 15 Minutes, and while we are all doing well in our Lanes we realize no one has called for a Dragon, or a Rift, or to pick up a Buff... or really anything.
So there are times, like any Tool (which Voice Chat is) that it can be wasted despite having it right there. Now, that doesn't happen often with MOST of the people I've Dynamic Queued with... but it DOES happen. And some people I've Queued with are significantly WORSE because of this, but I'm sure that's more a Lower Elo Player Issue in losing focus and such.
KetiaX2 votesIt's nice that you get to chat and have fun with your friends while playing the game.
While the other guy playing solo on the other side is getting insults after insults. Sometimes even his mother gets it as well.
While one side is having positive mentality thanks to the fun they're having, the other side that's not playing with friends is having a (possibly) mental breakdown because instead of receiving negative comments through chat, they're receiving negative comments verbally.
And you could say that the person can always block toxic people, but you have to listen to at least 1 phrase/sentence to actually know they're toxic, and for some that is weaker in mentality, it's enough to get them down and negatively affect their play.
ARequestOfDeath1 votesI try to give or join a voice chat for my teams when i can.
Elikain3 votesJust to point this out, when SQ was around, the excuse was: "my team got shit on because the other team was clearly more skilled, matchmaking is shit".
Critmaster Garen5 votesJust to point this out, when SQ was around, the excuse was: "my team got shit on because the other team was clearly more skilled, matchmaking is shit".
its similar, but worse now.
and remember a lot of the time, the problem was the infamous bot lane duo. its the same problem amplified.
TotalJerk4 votesMatchmaking was always shit. In my years of playing I don't think I've ever played a game in any playlist where all 10 players were in an actual similar skill range. Every game is just as Dunkey put it "3 good players and 7 retards". A more polite way to say this is that it's just 3 players doing all the legwork while the rest of the players are giant liabilities that should've have never been matched with these people in the first place. Everyone has been one of those "3 good players" or "7 retards" at some point.
theDeblin2 votesThe problem with old solo queue was that it was in the same pot with duo queue, and that fucked up now the matchmaking worked terribly.
DQ is essentially the devs looking at how much duos could make games in SQ, and deciding to multiply the problem by 4 instead of, y'know, removing the duos to fix the problem.
There's a mode for groups of 2-4 people, it's called normal.
Zerolocke1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ekvx007z,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-31T08:07:29.327+0000)
this is only part of it.
wait until you play against a team of well organized premades, with one at your side who tries to carry their shitty bronze friends up to plat or diamond, and cant compensate for his constant mistakes.
You cannot queue like that... Still have to be gold to queue with a plat.
Critmaster Garen1 votesYou cannot queue like that... Still have to be gold to queue with a plat.
smurph accounts?
Wildlash211 votesWait till you get 3 premades, and one of them wants your role because they got their secondary.
If you dont give it to them, you get flamed.
If you give it to them and play a role you're not familiar with and do badly, you get flamed.
SpecterVonBaren4 votesHow can you have 3 premades on your team? Even if you were playing Hexakill that would require you to be part of one of the premades.
Visau3 votesone premade of 3 man
Lord Galvatron3 votes3 premades of 1 person
SpecterVonBaren1 votes2 premades 1 team?
Lord Galvatron1 votesThe only league adult film that doesn't involve cosplay.
Malfini8 votesAll Riot needs to do is to ban 3 and 4 man premades and only allow soloq, duoq, and a full lobby on the current DQ,
Weathered6 votesWhat's the difference with Soloq in this situation, it only takes two people like that for a game to be lost.
Jari2 votesIt's because the more that do it, the harder it is to fix it. It'd be easier to try and fix it if a duo's doing the problem, but throw in 3 or 4 man premades and it just becomes more and more impossible. Not to mention if you get stuck with a 4 man premade, you're pretty much forced to bend to their knees, SPECIALLY if you're on your promo's because they'll give you a loss for not giving them mid even though you're bad at jungle. :P
Oleandervine5 votesIf you say Taliyah stood up for them, that implies that you or your other teammate were engaging them in conversation. First of all, if you all have enough time to type, you're losing anyway. Secondly, why on earth would you willingly try to lodge complaints against a pre-made while you're playing with them? That's just begging for them to start flaming you.
SociopathFriend11 votesWell the first just isn't true. You can easily type while backing, buying, respawning, or walking back to turret- or even just sitting in lane if you just pushed out the wave. Maybe not eloquent paragraphs but you can type a line or two.
And the second is somewhat misleading: You have no idea what they said to one another. It could've been something short and helpful like "Shyv please stop going in alone because you just die." and it could've resulted in flames.
Toothierosprey35 votesTeammates aren't good and are toxic --> must be dynamic queue's fault.
theDeblin4 votesA group of 3 of them IS dynamic's fault, though.
In fairness, the worst are groups of 4. Troll groups of 4 are everywhere in bronze/silver/low gold especially and you literally cannot surrender to escape.
Toothierosprey31 votesIm just saying that a lot of League's problems that aren't related to dynamic queue are being blamed on it. Personally, I haven't encountered any troll quad queues in ranked so far, but it sucks that they exist.
Weasel Kensei5 votesLast time I got trolled by a 3 man it was an AD Twisted Fate mid (that fed). A HeimerD AP bot carry, with Braum support... Me JG, I cant remember top.
So the TF, Heim and Braum are all qued together.
The Heim drops a turret next to my first camp and says "I hople that doesnt steal your camp :)" and the turrets proxemity got him XP, but not gold. The Braum Q'd the large monster to steal it..... This is where it goes troll. They fucked that leash up on purpose and I called them on it.
Heims response on Braum stealing my large monster was "you suck at last hitting." Can you fucking believe that? Im supposed to "last hit my camps? How do I "last hit" camps when troll supports and their assclown buddies are fighting me for them by saving skills to burst them when I dont know theyre trying to fuck me over? Troll logic, they say this "You suck at last hitting camps" bullshit several times playing dumb.
At the end of the match... will they be punished? No, triple que armor stops them from racking up enough reports over a short period of time to get any real punishment.
Kirbanator4 votesGuys let's be real here, unless you guys are diamond or higher, do you lose with premades EVERY game. Because in the lower tiers, it's usually 1-100 games. I can't say for everyone, but for me, if i get a premade loss one game, i get 20 other normal games
Hawkefire4 votesBeen saying this for a while now.
Dynamic Que doesn't reduce toxicity, rather it concentrates it.
You aren't really more or less likely to have a toxic teammate on your (or the enemies) team than you were before, but you are much more likely to end up with a toxic group because people are attracted to other like minded people.
Now this also means that it causes the amount of nice people to end up being condensed as well, but unfortunately we tend to remember the bad things in life more often than the good, so generally we are much more likely to remember a group of really really toxic individuals than we are to remember a group of really really nice people.
Game girl 13 votesOh yeah because this NEVER happened in solo queue right?
PbJMpP4xzk23 votesno, it never happened in soloQ wanna know why ? you can't go in soloQ as a premade of 3. but facts are too hard to understands i guess.
Ecchi Gorira2 votesI played hundred of games in ranked and I was NEVER trolled like this. You are either lying or just generalizing a very rare occurrence.
DexterousGecko2 votessounds like a typical solo queue game.
