"We nerfed Skarner to oblivion, then reworked him, because permaslows are toxic!" - Riot

Alenthayn··37 votes·2,647 views

Then, why the fuck is item 3116 still not nerfed?

Oh right, because Mages are weak and they need slows on 4 ranged abilities while an immobile melee champion can't have a slow!

Yeah, Mages are ranged, so it's fine! xD!

58 Comments

invisiblecat111 votes
  • While an item 3022 immobile melee item 3022 champion can't have item 3022 a slowitem 3022 .

item 3022 item 3022 item 3022 item 3022 item 3022 item 3022 item 3022 item 3022 item 3022 item 3022 item 3022

It Hertz When IP1 votes

A lot of melee champs have some form of lifesteal in their kits, relegating Frozen Mallet to a more niche juggernaut role.

All mages can use the health from Rylais though, to defend against assassins.

crippler381 votes

the fuq does lifesteal have to do with a permaslow?

It Hertz When IP1 votes

It's about the other stats on it, namely the flat health that not a lot of melee carries can use as effectively.

crippler381 votes

oh I see, fair enough.

you said kits though so it confused me ya know?

It Hertz When IP1 votes

Yeah.... I need to stop posting half asleep, apparently my communication skills go down the tubes.

Xeruon10 votes

Oh, Cassiopeia can apply Rylias with a clickshot spell on a 0.5 CD with the full 40% slow? She's an immobile mage so it's cool.

Yasuo exists within the game? OMFG GOD RITO IF YOU DON'T DELETE THIS CHAMPION RIGHT THE FUCK NOW I'M QUITTING LEAGUE FOR OVERWATCH!!!!

Gameplay in a nutshell.

Melledoneus1 votes

To be honest Yasuo is pretty frustrating for different reasons, such as having such a high kill zone in lane due to his E.

But Cass is just stupid. You walk into lane and she lands a Q. You better hope you're faster than her or have some instant CC/mobility, because that healthbar will disappear quick.

Xeruon1 votes

Both are technically balanced. Doesn't mean they're healthy though.

AgeOfTheMage6 votes

cough cough mordekaiser

Alenthayn24 votes

cough cough compensation buff

AgeOfTheMage4 votes

cough cough wat kind of buff? he's fine where he is.

cough cough ugh, i hope no one else joins, this cough is contagious.

Alenthayn4 votes

cough cough base stats could a thing

cough cough or fix his bugs

TyrekGoldenspear16 votes

cough cough He's not fine at all, he is literally a stat stick with most of his power budget in his shield and even Charlie Brown can kite him.

cough cough Phew you're right about the cough.

AgeOfTheMage9 votes

cough cough yeah, this cough is crazy, but rylais is pretty much a must have on morde, but what about icy mallet on champs like yi? you'll never escape him. XD

Golden Tager X13 votes

cough cough Yeah, but lets not act like you were gonna escape Yi anyway.

Malicious Metal10 votes

In his current state he's really frigging solid though, works really well for people who main the guy. Heck, I feel he's hasn't been this strong for a looooong while.

Rip 13 pots strat

Lord Boltrix2 votes

...you forgot to cough.

(looks both ways) _ cough cough_

Malicious Metal4 votes

Or they could just solidify Rylais as the utility item it was supposed to be? Hell, the 100 Ap is way too much if you ask me.

And reducing the AoE Slow to 30% instead of 40 would be a start too

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

cough cough yeah, that seems like a great idea!

Mira Arya Enthe8 votes

{quoted}

cough cough mordekaiser

Morde could just as easily have a slow added to his kit that starts off really weak and grows with levels to compensate. Champions should be balanced internally, not off of items. Because if you balance them off items we get: The tank meta, the armor pen meta, the Rylai's slow meta, etc.

Tychusfindlay9196 votes

{quoted}

cough cough mordekaiser

As the OP replied, you can create a compensation buff.

Even if riot magically couldnt, fuck mordekaiser and the 1% or whatever league players that play him. I'd rather the cancer of rylais be fixed for the sake of everybother immobile melee champion than kept cancerous for the sake of one ap immobile melee champion.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

cough cough mordekaiser

Saving More to be playable is the last reason I'd save an item. He's barely playable anyways.

Malicious Metal3 votes

Fck you too >:U

Skias2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=twUzGfOk,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2016-10-05T19:15:32.177+0000)

Fck you too >:U

Lmao sorry metal. They should have fixed your champ instead of leaving him all weird.

Tormentula5 votes

Only 3 champions are broken with rylais: Cassiopeia Viktor Azir

Others simply just cannot exist or thrive at all without it: AurelionSol ZyraTaliyah

Others only build it like 50% of the time..

The issue isn't the slow as not everything is busted, its the stats of the item being way too high with the strong passive. And overloaded item par say.

ninjaroxas4 votes

I'd sat Zyra doesn't really need it

FantasySniper2 votes

Yeah, she only gets it because it's stupid good.

morris113 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Spider NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=twUzGfOk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-05T14:51:32.675+0000)

Only 3 champions are broken with rylais: Cassiopeia Viktor Azir

Malzahar Brand Vladimir Swain Karthus etc.

There's clearly a problem with the item and not the champions.

Melledoneus14 votes

I disagree that Karthus is a problem.

crippler381 votes

I agree with this statement.

magic pole1 votes

Nidalee

Ariel the Cruel5 votes

This was actually addressed back when Skarner went under the scalpel for having a perma-slow. Granted, Rylai's was weaker back then and Ashe's slow was a toggle.

Champions having the ability to perma slow out the gate causes them to snowball disproportionately hard because of their ability to force or escape fights with it. Once builds start becoming a factor and full kits open up, teams have a lot more options to respond. Which is why Riot is ok with champions spending gold on strong effects that come packaged with weaker stats.

The logic doesn't translate well into the current game state. But since we're bringing up the Skarner rework, the original logic behind it should be addressed.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

Shame it has some of the best stats in the game on top of the passive though...

ParlorTrick3 votes

item 3022

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

I believe their stated reason was that innate perma-slows were unhealthy on high-damage, high-durability fighters since you generally couldn't fight them when they got onto you (or were ahead) and a perma-slow removed your option to retreat.

Having them on squishier champions (i.e. Ashe) who you could turn and burst down is a different matter.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

How are you getting to this squishy champion when they've permaslowed you so you die before you even get to them?

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Generally by flanking the target, ambushing them using fog-of-war, or basic coordination with allies.

I'm just restating Riot's previous reasoning for removing Skarner's perma-slow.

I don't particularly care about the OPs complaints, but I get annoyed when people provide false quotes to justify their argument.

WoonStruck1 votes

That's why Ashe is alright. And only Ashe.

The problem is that Rylai's offers a significant amount of HP, and if it were to be even closer to balanced, it would offer more HP and less AP. Rylai's, much like Frozen Mallet, enables the 'high durability champion you generally can't fight' aspect on mages at the moment, especially with the range, armor/mr, and actives/passives that common itemization provides for them.

There's no reason Frozen Mallet as an item can be considered balanced if Skarner with permaslow on Q can't. In the same basket we have Rylai's, which enables similar gameplay but generally at a range and with more CC/burst inherent on most of the users.

crippler381 votes

oh it's not ok on shaco? you disgust me.

boeboeterrifico1 votes

Ashe's slows got nerfed again..FeelsBadMan

hhaavviikk1 votes

skarner can't have a melee range perma slow as his only form of keeping up with enemies but gnar can ranged perma slow enemies while getting speed boosted the entire time and also having a gap closer, yeah ok totally fair.

Speedphoenix1 votes

you're just complaining about cassiopea?

Liofa1 votes

I'd tell you just how useless mages like Malz would be without Rylais, but you don't want to listen, you just want this inconsequential AP item, the only good AP item left in the game, nerfed cause you got stomped. So whatever, let it out.

Lestat S461 votes

Boots of swiftness.

FantasySniper2 votes

Oh yay, I'm still slow and easy to hit as shit.

SlntReaper1 votes

What is with the circlejerk of Rylai's? We get it, it's a good item right now. But all I see is people complaining about mages building it and permaslowing. What about the assassins?

And also, please for the love of God stop saying this. I've seen almost as many nerf yasuo threads as ive seen nerf Rylai's threads.

Dengeden1 votes

They said they would, have some patience you.... Why has red buff not been nerfed when it gives ranged champions perma slows? I'll tell you why, ranged champs blow up more easily than your precious Godyr.

Because giving a ranged champion a hefty slow is better than them always needing 10k damage to counter melees running them down.

Bisaknosp1 votes

Olaf

HazyCloud71 votes

They have already said they will be working on the item for the the pre-season.

More from Gameplay

More by Alenthayn