>Graves
>! (Q) added to tool tip: "The next attack against an enemy champion grants Graves True Grit for 4 seconds. If an enemy champion is hit by all bullets, >Graves gains 2 stacks of True Grit instead."
lmfao
Riot's major fuck you to Gameplay
dank as fuck riot
Sahn Uzal29 votesDude, Seriously? These most likely are not the final changes this update -_- I'll eat a fucking Orange without peeling it if Riot's buffing Graves.
Sleepcoma14 votes[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nlWZOumN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-04T20:04:25.919+0000)
Dude, Seriously? These most likely are not the final changes this update -_- I'll eat a fucking Orange without peeling it if Riot's buffing Graves.
u dont get armor and mr from jungle monsters anymore, only champions
Marshbouy4 votesThat's a huge change. Like. A fucking massive change. That almost completely demolishes his early game and jungle clear. BRB gotta go yell at OP.
WoonStruck4 votesIt hardly touches his early game and jungle clear...
If you're kiting properly, which you always should as a ranged champ in the jungle, you take basically no damage, especially with Graves since he has knock-back on every single auto.
Marshbouy4 votes"hardly touches" oh fucking please. This nerfs him in 2 big ways. 1 he's still a ranged squish champion in the jungle. He's when he does end up getting attacked by jungle camps then he's gonna take more damage than a tankier champion. This also makes taking dragon and baron considerably harder. P.S. perfect kiting does not exist, you will still take enough hits from the jungle camps while playing graves.
2 he won't have bonus stats during jungle fights. E.G. you invade him as nidalee and try to kill him. Pre nerf he has 60 AR and MR from stacking his E(right as the fight starts). Post nerf he has 0 AR and MR from stacking his E(right as the fight starts).
WoonStruck2 votesYou can keep speculating when you don't play the champ, or even watch anyone that does (apparently). He doesn't take enough hits in the jungle for the change to affect his first clear health very much.
Yeah, he'll have less armor/MR if someone invades, but that's not a huge nerf considering most champs couldn't safely attempt to kill him in the jungle with or without the armor/MR since they will STILL have significantly less HP than him when they attempt it.
Someone attempting to invade wasn't and still won't be a huge issue for Graves, especially once he grabs smokescreen. At worst, it means he's putting a point in W instead of Q at level 3, which isn't a huge deal.
Lee Sin MIGHT be able to do something against him after, but tbh, probably not in the majority of cases unless the Graves makes it completely, 100% free for him.
Marshbouy2 votesNo. I just watched a graves jungle clear, he got hit repeatedly by the jungle camps throughout the whole thing. The only thing keeping him sustained was his E MR and AR buff.
Yeah, he'll have less armor/MR if someone invades, but that's not a huge nerf considering most champs couldn't safely attempt to kill him in the jungle with or without the armor/MR since they will STILL have significantly less HP than him when they attempt it.
You got stats for that? or are you just "speculating about a champion you don't know about"
Someone attempting to invade wasn't and still won't be a huge issue for Graves, especially once he grabs smokescreen. At worst, it means he's putting a point in W instead of Q at level 3, which isn't a huge deal.
this is entirely irrelevant.
WoonStruck1 votesYou watched a Graves on the PBE jungle clear, when PBE players are notorious for being bad at anything that requires thought. Unless you can show me a Pants are PBE video of it, nobody's going to believe you, especially since it takes a while to stack up E (18 second CD and you somehow think he has it at full stacks the entire first clear, lol). 10 armor doesn't make a huge difference in the jungle. Hell, even 20 only barely starts to be noticeable, and that's to champions constantly face-tanking the jungle, unlike Graves. Add in the fact that he clears faster than a lot of champs...yeah, no. You're wrong.
Its not irrelevant because if someone is legitimately going to be a threat where they wouldn't have been before the change, you can just grab smokescreen instead of the near universal 2nd point in Q and your fears are effectively gone.
Marshbouy1 votesLiterally everything you said is just horribly wrong. I refuse to even respond to you.
Marshbouy2 votesOh yeah. PS, this nerf is going to hit the majority playerbase a lot harder than the minority high elo. Not everyone can point perfect clear the jungle like a high diamond and up player could. People in plat and below (or at least most of them) can't kite that effectively.
His nerf hitting low elo harder than high elo does matter because that is where the majority of his dominance is, in low elo.
AramsAreBest1 votesI think he's pretty weak in silver idk about gold
WoonStruck2 votesPut it on youtube and let everyone know if it happens. haha
doiminat0r36001 votesI'll eat a fucking Orange without peeling it if Riot's buffing Graves.
Im holding you on that.
Sahn Uzal1 votesDamn it Riot please don't let me down now...
crippler381 votesbetter put it on youtube for us then if it happens, otherwise you'll be a phony
Sahn Uzal1 votesWOWOW, I didn't say anything about that!
I'm really fucking awkward. I don't even own a single photo of myself!
RocketRelm3 votes
Enloct3 votesYeah, he'll take like 50% more damage in the jungle which would be....none.
I think they are trying to nerf his clear but in reality as long as jungle Graves still has his stupid knockback he'll clear at full health.
Is the all bullets = 2 stacks a permanent thing or just after E? Because otherwise this intended nerf is actually a huge buff. He'll instantly be tanky as shit the second a fight begins. Minor nerf or massive buff - need to know how it works.
WoonStruck4 votesOnly after E, and only if you land all bullets on a champion. So basically, have to be ~275 range away or less to get 2. 'risk/reward', when it just caters to his drain tanking playstyle either way.
In actuality, its a huge buff when played aggressively. Its a (very) small nerf if you kite until you're at 4 stacks, then go ham. Made top Graves worse, which is always a good thing.
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nlWZOumN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-04T20:04:25.919+0000)
Dude, Seriously? These most likely are not the final changes this update -_- I'll eat a fucking Orange without peeling it if Riot's buffing Graves.
gonna call you out on that if it happens.
Keti15 votesIt's a nerf to his jungle clear, as it only stacks on champion autos now.
WoonStruck1 votesIts hardly a nerf to his jungle clear since he kites+CCs monsters with every auto attack. He couldn't stack his E that high while clearing either way, and he doesn't start maxing it until after Q is maxed, when he'll have enough ad/lifesteal to be full HP regardless.
Make it so his autos don't CC large monsters, then we're talking.
RocketRelm6 votesI've played jungle graves. You can keep your stacks running indefinitely for your whole clear, provided you manage them correctly.
Masala Chai10 votesCONTEXT:
Graves changes in testing: Attacking a champion after E gives the MR/Armour,** instead of on cast.** Hitting all your bullets on a champion grants 2 stacks. This means that E resists don't factor into jungle clear for now (subject to change) and is not meant to be a "Graves shouldn't jungle", just adding some more danger to his clear. We're still testing whether the resists values should be changed/still validating the concept, I just figured it'd be good to get some visibility on the planned changes earlier in the cycle than usual.
Nerf to Graves, moreso for Jungle than for Top.
AirKingNeo2 votesIt's a massive buff to top lane Graves.
CasterGilgamesh2 votesthats because they dont want to gut him....if they nerf graves out of jungle he either goes top lane or will hardly ever be played again because his range makes it extremely hard to be a bottom lane adc
WoonStruck1 votesNo, they want to gut him. They're trying multiple things. They think they want to reduce the armor/mr granted later on as well.
Hell, they might hit him even harder where E is concerned.
After that, they'll buff his damage eventually so he can run bot lane.
CasterGilgamesh1 votesthey tried it didnt work so they stopped they are trying to make him more balanced not gut there is a difference .Also boosting his damage wont make him go back to bot lane unless he becomes broken
WoonStruck1 votesIt wouldn't make him a go-to ADC.
It'd make him a good pick into a team with strong divers/assassins. Considering how much ADC players complain about assassins/divers when they're strong, everyone should be on board with that idea.
Masala Chai3 votesStill wrong, currently; True Grit is applied on-cast. This change would require him to hit a champion first to get the bonus.
ProfDrDeath3 votesThe next attack against an enemy champion grants Graves True Grit for 4 seconds. If an enemy champion is hit by all bullets, >Graves gains 2 stacks of True Grit instead.
The nerf part of this change is this one:
The next attack against an enemy champion
On Live, True Grit works by granting the resistances instantly and regardless of Graves' next action.
In total, this should impact the safety of his jungle clearing.
Photos of Ghosts2 votesNo, it's E. It means that he DOESN'T gain True Grit by pressing E anymore, he ONLY does upon attacking a champion. That means that he has no additional armor while clearing jungle, making him much slower to start up. However, the double stacking if full hit means that he's going to be REALLY strong in melee 1v1s later in the game.
RocketRelm1 votesTo be fair, this also prevents him from doing cheesy shit like stacking E on scuttle or raptors, and then coming in for a gank at max stacks.
Meep Man2 votesWell, stronger in melee 1v1s at all stages of the but whatever, still a nerf
Photos of Ghosts1 votesI meant that unless you're an annoying Lee Sin (and then you deserve it) you're not going to have a melee 1v1 during the first clear
crippler381 votesshaco being a cheeky %%%% would, granted this is stupid since everyone expects it, eve too which is less common but still pretty strong.
warpenguin5552 votesThis isnt a buff. He only gets true grit after hitting an enemy champion and not on cast or on monsters anymore. Please read the whole thing before posting
WoonStruck1 votesIts not a nerf regarding the jungle anyway. He takes no damage because of the knockback and being ranged. Armor/MR only makes bad Graves players worse, which is okay in anyone's book.
Its mostly a nerf top lane (stacking and keeping up E permanently), and Graves that kite until they have enough armor/mr to just drain-tank people.
Its a buff to aggressive, in your face gameplay...which is pretty much the drain-tanking that everyone hates.
BloodyTompon1 votesIt weakens his duelling in the jungle.
Unpaladin1 votesPlease tell me the Armor/MR amount is reduced and/or that this is experimental. So I guess Graves could do with some attackspeed? Wits End tanky douchebag Graves build when?
Sightless663 votesThey have been experimenting with nerfs to the resistances and/or nerfs to his damage/reliability. This should be viewed in that context.
DeadlyStalker1 votesYou forgot the nasus buff
No longer deals magical damage, intead it deal maximun health damage now YAY.
And it gives him free Armor and MAGIC RES on top of it.
Riot destroying balanced champions without a care.
Paroe4 votesYou forgot the nasus buff
No longer deals magical damage, intead it deal maximun health damage now YAY.
And it gives him free Armor and MAGIC RES on top of it.
Riot destroying balanced champions without a care.
it is an ultimate. that change is just bringing nasus in line with renekton tbh... and in case you missed the memo, %HP damage is used less as a tank buster and more a "i can do something even when behind" stat.
Big Lincoln10 votesNasus ult already does % damage, and the Armor/MR buff replaces the AD he used to get from it (up to 300 AD)
you could at least look this up on the wiki before you go and complain.
statelesskiller1 votesdo you prefer him instead to get free ad by standing near you? cause thats what his ult does right now. ontop of the max hp in magic damage
The Whamboozler1 votesWell see... what had happened was... Graves STOPPED being the best champion in the game for like four roles at once, and we can't have that. They're gonna add some better support utility to him in a few patches too so he can hit all five roles to perfection. Then he'll get an legendary skin or something which will sell like mad. Then they'll nerf him again. And thus do we all play our part in the circle of life.
Photos of Ghosts1 votesOr OR You could actually read the nerf
SiG DxD1 votesgraves is balanced around shotgun ,l2p kappa
