Will Rammus and Trundle ever be viable again?

Velasan·Nov 4, 2015·4 votes·1,458 views

I know it's weird to say that so boldly, and lump the two together, but they both suffer from the same problem.

Rammus and Trundle both rely on chasing down an opponent, locking them in place (trundle with slows, rammus with taunts), and whittling off their HP.

Well, half the new champions have dashes, and the reworked ones all do HP% damage and ignore most types of resistances.

So, take Fiora for example, if a Rammus jungle powerballs into her lane he can't possibly duel her. If he tries to powerball and taunt she has a dash to escape. At this point it takes a good top laner paying attention with their own solid form of CC or it's no use.

In summary, Riot are there any plans for either of these characters who have to try to chase in a world of dashes and hp damage?

They are two of my favorite characters. I really want them to be playable this next season.

16 Comments

StoryDuckNov 4, 20153 votes

Rammus is still strong and one of the few that can get Thornmail back to it's original glory. He really excels at focusing down AD based champions. His down side is that he can easily be counter-jungled. Not a problem if you can count on your team to come help you when you need it but can lead to you falling way behind with Rammus otherwise.

Jungle Lux GodNov 5, 20153 votes

Trundle is really good against teams with exactly one tank, solid against teams with more than one tank, and bad against teams with all damage threats. He also does pretty good against AD-oriented carries that he can reach.

Rammus is a pretty solid pick if your team needs a strong early ganking jungler that is also a late-game tank, since not too many other champions have both traits. He's also really good against AD-heavy team comps because of his bonuses from armor.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like either are going to be super playable next season.

With nerfs to a lot of armor items, the introduction of an unfortunately underpowered Hunter's Talisman (which will be Rammus' core starting jungle item), and the addition of Lord Dominik's Regards (which counters both the armor and the health Rammus wants to be building), and Mercurial Scimitar making itself a powerful core item on many ADC's, it doesn't look like Rammus will be all that good. What will be good is that the relative power level of many AP champions is going down, leaving Rammus more able to stack armor and HP, but the nerfs to armor items might just hurt him more than the ability to stack armor will help.

Trundle is also in a similar state. With tanks as a whole being less viable due to all the AD itemization changes and the release of Mortal Reminder (which applies grievous wounds) will greatly hinder the overall effectiveness of Trundle to the point he probably isn't that good.

VelasanNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Trundle is really good against teams with exactly one tank, solid against teams with more than one tank, and bad against teams with all damage threats. He also does pretty good against AD-oriented carries that he can reach.

Rammus is a pretty solid pick if your team needs a strong early ganking jungler that is also a late-game tank, since not too many other champions have both traits. He's also really good against AD-heavy team comps because of his bonuses from armor.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like either are going to be super playable next season.

With nerfs to a lot of armor items, the introduction of an unfortunately underpowered Hunter's Talisman (which will be Rammus' core starting jungle item), and the addition of Lord Dominik's Regards (which counters both the armor and the health Rammus wants to be building), and Mercurial Scimitar making itself a powerful core item on many ADC's, it doesn't look like Rammus will be all that good. What will be good is that the relative power level of many AP champions is going down, leaving Rammus more able to stack armor and HP, but the nerfs to armor items might just hurt him more than the ability to stack armor will help.

Trundle is also in a similar state. With tanks as a whole being less viable due to all the AD itemization changes and the release of Mortal Reminder (which applies grievous wounds) will greatly hinder the overall effectiveness of Trundle to the point he probably isn't that good.

Hmmmm seems legit. Ty for the in depth reply. I'm not just trying to complain, but rather made this post because I like both champs and really would like to get more use of them.

Here's crossing my fingers that some of the new masteries might be beast on them.

FlahertyNov 4, 20152 votes

Trundle is still viable, I'm not sure about Rammus though since I haven't played or seem him in a while. Rammus is still probably fine against a team with a lot of auto attack champions.

alasarcherNov 4, 20151 votes

I play Rammus top ocasionally, it works wonders against AD champs like feedora or Riven. The other day i played as Rammus vs top Renekton, mid Zed, Master Yi jungle and ADC Vayne. It was beautiful. And his TP + homeguard+ dead mens plate combo is amazing.

AckelopeNov 5, 20151 votes

Don't think it works so great vs Riven, I've played Riven into Rammus a couple times myself and rekt them each time. Possible it coulda been individual player error, but idk.

RenascentNov 5, 20151 votes

Most Rivens don't know how to deal with a good top Rammus. Either the Rammus' you've faced top lane weren't very good, or you're just an excellent Riven.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1966804033/215452559?tab=overview

AckelopeNov 5, 20151 votes

I'd go ahead and say it's the former of the two, I'm pretty mediocre at Riven, to say the least xD

GunpointNov 4, 20151 votes

Fiora isn't even really countered by Rammus anymore. It's pretty sad.

OxBakerNov 4, 20151 votes

If the currently PBE environment is anywhere close to what live will be, I'm afraid the answer is no. Once next patch kicks in the only viable champs will be AD bruisers and marksman, assassins and maybe some Hybrid marksmen that can make use of some of the nice hybrid items they made for the AD marksman.

Sadly, Tanks and Mages are not even close to being viable on the PBE at the moment.

Snake TownNov 4, 20151 votes

lolololololololol have you seen the season 6 update??

Not a chance lol

Unlucky Number7Nov 5, 20151 votes

take a look at the new frozen mallet for rammus. he's also positively affected bye the new last whisper.

RalanrNov 5, 20151 votes

I want to think Rammus will counter a lot of marksmen in the preseason.

NemeBroNov 5, 20151 votes

Rammus has been consistently viable for several patches, having a 53% win rate at one point.

I find your complaining that a Rammus jungle can't 1v1 a top lane Fiora.

... So? Rammus is a jungler, so naturally has less gold and combat stats early on. He's also a tank with a lot of CC and utility, as well as pretty fucking good AOE damage for team fights.

Why should he be able to 1v1 a melee carry or bruiser?