Why mobility is a problem

Velasan··40 votes·2,301 views

It is indeed fun to have mobility on a champion . It makes parts of the game more fluid and opens up possibilities for plays.

So, why is it a problem?

Well, with Riots new policy of skill shots (which is fine on some things, don't get me wrong) these mobile champs get to essentially simply sidestep another characters damage. This is especially true for many burst mages who used to counter mobility, but are now being more frequently reworked with less reliable stuns and skill shots. Mages also tend to have more utility and hence more ways to catch dashing opponents.

Case in point take rework veigar. If you take him into battle against an evenly skilled ahri or leblanc you are probably going to lose. Why? Well all they have to do is dash past your Q and then you literally must one shot them with your ultimate to survive. Not even going to mention W. Going to land a long delay skill on a rapidly moving target... unlikely.

I use this example because it highlights how few things counter mobility except to have more mobility. It becomes a slippery slope at that point because the two other counters beside raw mobility are giant burst (kill them before they can escape) or hard CC. No one wants a game full of the counters either, which devolves into either being instantly blown up or locked down and unable to fight back. Riot also has started giving infinite slows (hi kalista and new ashe) as a counter to all the mobility, but then it also makes any champion that actually has to chase a target progressively worse until you must be building righteous glory or have chilling smite (like trundle, skarner, and volibear with flat move speed increases and no dashes).

Another issue to touch on briefly is they are less fun to play against because they are overbearing and oppressive. If they get ahead at any time you will never escape them again almost ever . Even tower diving is easier because they can dash out. This was one of the reasons akali was so heavily nerfed last season.

The conclusion, mobility needs to be special and an exception rather than the rule. Right now we look at Kassadin and we don't think, "omg that is a teleporting champion!" Instead he gets piled in with a dozen others and is basically a weaker leblanc. Same thing with Rengars ultimate. Might have been special when he was released, now it is just another dash that even gives a warning sign taking the place of an ultimate.

Finally, mobility has to count towards a champions overall "power budget." It's ok if they can fly around the map, but they shouldn't be able to insta kill people as they do it ( no dashing drive by's if you know what I mean). Let kassadin be crazy mobile for example, but then just leave the ult damage low or pure utility. Xerath by contrast should be allowed higher damage and longer slows or stuns rather than trying to homogenize less mobile mages into skill shot reliant inconsistent cc oriented champs who use up all their power budget in their damage.

Because let's face it, lots of very mobile champions have huge damage and cc to boot.

42 Comments

SEKAI7 votes

We see this kind of thread literally everyday, whether in the form of rage QQ or logical and humble piece that is backed up by facts and whatnot,

Then let's see how much Riot actually cares about this problem,

Oh Ekko was released, so I guess they will get it right next time.

I just hate whenever Riot simply ignores mobility being a part of a champ's power budget during the balancing process. I mean come on, really?

Keevalroy5 votes

Oh Ekko was released, so I guess they will get it right next time.

Next time for sure.

Kappa

Knight SoIaire 3 votes

The conclusion, mobility needs to be special and an exception rather than the rule.

blame flash it has like 100% popularity, and this thing solely made the mobility a rule

Finally, mobility has to count towards a champions overall "power budget."

blame flash how do you counte mobility towards powerbudget when everyone has a short distance blink

owerall the pinnacle of the problem with mobility is flash

everything is mobile so you cant count it into the powerbudget

Lugg24 votes

Every champion can take flash. Not every champion has mobility. Your argument is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

every champion takes flash and thus every champion HAS mobility

when you want to actualy tax mobility in powerbudget your main point of ballance is to give mobile champions a certain drawback for the power mobility gives

but you cant make that drawback real as far as the counterpart has flash, becuase this would simply make mobility cripple champions

flash is free and everyone has one so its impossible to ballance flash for the use of champions who actualy are meant to take it nor it is possible to ballance champions with mobilty to interact in a healthy way with champions who have only flash

Svddenly12 votes

Every champ has summoner 4 means that everyone has exactly the same amount of relative mobility. So champs that are more mobile are still more mobile.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

but how do you compare it in gameplay

if someone like renek would get gutted statwise compared to darius becuase renek has 2 dashes and a flash

renek wont be able to stand on lane, and even if he does darius will just flash q hook w hit and ult, end of story renek has no options

while this would be kinda ballanceable if renek wouldnt have flash while darius would, you would just equalize the numbers, reduced the cd of flash and those guys would be free to play in a quite healthy enviroment

the thing is that mobility is a thing that interacts with other stuff, even if you have little of it like a sole flash, it changes your possibilities in loads of ways

having simply more mobility is not as easy to calculate when both sides have it to some extent

Lugg3 votes

You do realize that flash is on a FOUR MINUTE cooldown right? Mobility champs can use their mobility on about an average of 8 seconds or less. I'm sorry, but saying flash gives every champion mobility is absolutely absurd.

Velasan2 votes

{quoted}

You do realize that flash is on a FOUR MINUTE cooldown right? Mobility champs can use their mobility on about an average of 8 seconds or less. I'm sorry, but saying flash gives every champion mobility is absolutely absurd.

I agree with this but I understand why people bring it up. Flash does make champions more mobile. The catch is that everyone has it.

So it sort of neutrals the advantage for everyone so long as every champion is using it. Until they remove flash entirely at least the playing ground is even so long as it is universally accessible.

Lugg1 votes

Without flash, you would literally have to majorly buff champions without any escapes. Would you want to face a buffed Cho, Ashe, or Jinx at this point?

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

but at the same time being some hyper mobile bastard can cho gath scratch you without flash ... even ig his ult deals over a million damage he cant do anything

you just need to juke one skill and walk away like a bauss to literly remove cho from your life

if flash would be removed we wouldnt need as much as a simple reballance we would need to make a new gameplay standrards for both mobile and immobile guys that would put them on equal field

but unlike the gameplay that we have now ... that one would be fair for both sides

simple thing that comes to mind are certain aspects of kits like aoe and range of your skills mobile champions shouldnt get skills that cover loads of ground or travel long distances, they can maneuwer to hit their skills

on the other hand immobile guys should have ways of covering more area with damage that could match the capability of mobile guys to reposition or skills that are more reliable when it comes to landing them

if we highlight some counterpart mechanics that involwe dealing with and expressing mobility we can create a healthy interaction that does not fawour anyone

ofc riot wont do that .. requires too much resources and can backfire on too many levels but its nice to dream

Lugg1 votes

Interesting idea at least.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

flash is nerfed this hard becuase mobile champions would have mobility on top of mobility increasing their dominance over anything else

but its a fact that flash plays exist and they have much more significant function for immobile guys than mobile ones

btw its 5 minutes not 4

Velasan3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NO7Gexkb,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-07T11:59:10.307+0000)

but how do you compare it in gameplay

if someone like renek would get gutted statwise compared to darius becuase renek has 2 dashes and a flash

renek wont be able to stand on lane, and even if he does darius will just flash q hook w hit and ult, end of story renek has no options

while this would be kinda ballanceable if renek wouldnt have flash while darius would, you would just equalize the numbers, reduced the cd of flash and those guys would be free to play in a quite healthy enviroment

the thing is that mobility is a thing that interacts with other stuff, even if you have little of it like a sole flash, it changes your possibilities in loads of ways

having simply more mobility is not as easy to calculate when both sides have it to some extent

This is an excellent point. In this case I would say because Renek is a brawler and not a burster with short range dashes. The dashes need to count for something in his power budget, but he is melee fighter who has to chase people and won't just insta burst someone from a bush like lb would.

Renek being melee gives him some already relevant drawbacks so the dashes take up less of his overall power budget IMO.

Now if he did insane damage or had a ranged ability... I might not agree with that.

Slamurai Jack3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Derek the Ferret,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NO7Gexkb,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-07T11:32:43.072+0000)

Every champ has summoner 4 means that everyone has exactly the same amount of relative mobility. So champs that are more mobile are still more mobile.

While technically true, flash on some champions is worth far more than others. Flash on Annie, Amumu or KogMaw are worth far more than it is on Ezreal

Ace Access 1 votes

Ezreal already has a built in flash so him taking a flash is rather nonsensical to me

MarhsallLee671 votes

Ezreal is primarily played as an ADC in bot lane, which means not only that he'll be facing two champions at once, but is at a higher risk for being ganked than the other lanes. Any ADC is going to need as much kill/escape potential as they can possibly get.

rebound22 votes

Slow down there, your English is more confusing than ancient manuscripts.

ShaftyMegee1 votes

Read it slower

AmazingGoat1 votes

I want to downvote this more. He conveyed his ideas clearly and added something to the conversation. You, on the other hand, just tried to make a pointless remark that comes across as xenophobic.

Kuroi861 votes

Except mobility being an extension of utility is counted in powerbudgets. If anything though, the cost perhaps isn't nearly as high as it should be.

PiVoRx3 votes

Mobility is issue when is paired with retarded damage, nobody would complain about LB, Zed or Ahri if their damage was cut by half.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

cut ahri's damage by half?are u serious?she can t insta burst really noone,unless she is pretty fed...and she should be quite an assassin...she'll be completely useless if u lower her damage.4 lb and zed, i hate them, but that is their task: going in, kill and going out..that stun of lb though....

PiVoRx1 votes

Ahri is cancer, shes one of those champs with overloaded kits, theres no gap between Q, E, R, flash and Zhonya where she can be actually killed, in addition she got self heal, can jump through walls and shes doing most true damage from all champions. Shes bullshit fighting with LB for a title of Queen of Cancer.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

she can t dash 2 times in r without a small pause....caught her in that pause and she is dead.It s really small time but it is there.And i repeat her damage is not that high,even if u are the adc a non-fed ahri can't kill u,just try avoiding her charm,it's not so easy to hit.If u get destroyed honor ur enemy, don t blame the champ.I just got raped by an ahri, funny thing is that she is my main, i quite know how she works, i was just like"omfg i stepped in a bad position, i''ll die now if she is good"..." u have been slain" XD ahri is one of the champ that profits more from ur error, she can 't do nothing but poke with q if u don't catch urself in a bad place.And if she does so consistently she will get oom.

LightIsMyPath1 votes

oh, and if u are searching 4 a vulnerability window, there it is: 4 120 seconds after she used her r just make her waste her charm and u can kill her anytime if u are a bursty champion( hi Syndra , hi Annie ...)

Silents4292 votes

Are you making a thread to tell "us" of all communities why mobility is bad.

Like seriously?

Shroom Junkie2 votes

When Kassadin's huge mobility was special. item 3070

fractalfantasies2 votes

Just give the immobile champs more hard CC.

This is logical, some champs get to skip around the map, others get to lock them down.

CudyDarkyz1 votes

{quoted}

Just give the immobile champs more hard CC.

This is logical, some champs get to skip around the map, others get to lock them down.

The problem with that is, champs with out mobility will also be hurt by this.

Think about someone like Syndra or Veigar, champs who get more hard CC, will have a easier time landing it on them, or if its point and click just makes it "who clicks first," because if your immobile, you're a tank or someone with high burst. "maybe a support."

kaykalos1 votes

Mobility isnt bad, cc are not reliable anymore.The most mid/low range spamable ccs became non reliable or skillshots.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

It is indeed fun to have mobility on a champion . It makes parts of the game more fluid and opens up possibilities for plays.

Riot also has started giving infinite slows (hi kalista and new ashe) as a counter to all the mobility,

Kalista(and don't get me wrong,this is a bullshit champion,who I would very much appreciate if riot just deleted from the game) has a 2 second slow on an 8 second cooldown,whereas ashe always had a perma slow(unless she ran out of mana),so no,kalista doesn't have it to counter mobility(nor do slows counter it,as the problem is mostly with dashes,which don't care for slows),and ashe always had hers,so that one wasn't added either.

Same thing with Rengars ultimate. Might have been special when he was released, now it is just another dash that even gives a warning sign taking the place of an ultimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGDFOeuVlM This seems rather unique to me. At the end of the day the warning is nearly worthless,the mark appears and half a second there's a rengar on you taking your entire health pool in miliseconds. so two things: 1)nerf rengar to the ground,his gameplay is exceptionally toxic and he shouldn't be allowed to even be viable the way he works right now(and yes,the same goes for le blanc). 2)exceptionally obnoxious as he is,his gamestyle and ult are definitely unique.

Everything else I agree with.

mack91121 votes

I think in this game it is usually forgotten that it is not all 1v1 , the champions who get Alotta flac are usually the high mobility assassins for there ability to dodge all your stuff then beat the crap out of you. These kinds of champions excel at the 1vs1 scenario which is what any solo lane is exluding jungle interaction. The more long range immobile Champs generally excel at the more clustered team fights that sadly happen after the laning phase which is where the assassin excels. No game is ever going to be perfect but it is in my opinion that the level of mobility and immobility in the game is at a perfectly acceptable level.

Big Bang Bob1 votes

Hyper mobile champs do (usually Kalista) have some sort of weakness. They just still have power in terms of damage.

Yasuo Has no reliable escape and is melee.

Kassadin Delayed blink: cannot dodge unless done so preemptively.

Leblanc Her mobility is the most reliable way to proc her Q. If she can't kill enemies in 2 hits and can't land an E and stay long enough for it to go off, she will have no escape. She also telegraphs when she may try to dash to you with her Q, allowing opponents to prepare to hit her in mid dash or when she arrives.

Ekko Most telegraphed ultimate ever. High delays on damage/utility.

Immobile champs also usually have some intimidating power that not many mobile champs, if any, hold.

Malzahar Can pretty much take a champ out the game unless it is timed badly and interrupted. Also a has large amounts of %hp AoE damage and a 3 sec silence if you can land it. Can easily kill softies with EWRsummoner 14.

Velkoz Can win whole team fights with ult if left alone. Great kiting. Long range.

Ashe Good luck getting away from her If you can't dash though a wall.

Hypermobile, as well as immobile champs, are outliers though. Most champs just use one dash or blink and are stuck walking for some time.

Supp Hero1 votes

I agree, movespeed or dashes/mobility spells can give you too much of an advantage. Certain champions can be almost entirely negated by someone else being faster movement speed than the other. Veigar W is a good example. The only time it has a good chance of hitting is in team fights with 3 or more people or after another person stuns.

Mobility can make someone automatically better than another player just by being able to outmaneuver attacks and outpoke.

roroer1 votes

Another big problem is that immobile champions are pretty much perma slowed because almost every new champion in the game has 1 or more slows in its kit, and champions with mobility aren't affected as hard by slows since their mobility's range isn't affected by slows.

For example, Kalista rend slows because you know, why not. Gnar Has one on his boomerang, his boulder, and on his ultimate if it doesn't stun (i even think is slows you for a short time after the stun aswell.) Ekko Has a slow on his passive, on his Q, and on his W field if it doesn't stun.

These champions would be able to operate just fine without having as many slows as they do considering they all have insane mobility to stick to targets already. Their kits all have good damage, CC, and mobility, which not every champion needs to have but seems to now anyways. Especially when compared to some of the older released champions who have less bloated kits like Sivir or Malzahar.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Now I want you to go look at Spirit Breaker's kit in Dota 2, cross map wide mobility and has a more oppressive chain cc than URF Alistar. Oh but how people would LOVE to have him here in League so they could mess up Leblanc's face.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

This is honestly the first thread I've ever read that uses good logic to argue why mobility is a problem. I applaud you for that OP.

Personally I'm in the crowd that likes mobility as a mechanic. I'll agree with you that it can get a bit excessive (Leblanc comes to mind), but I don't think average cooldown mobility is a problem to any degree (Ex: Lucian, Graves, Corki, Azir). Even Yasuo's mobility seems to be fairly reasonable to me, since he cannot proc it twice on the same target for a pretty large period of time.

Let me give one major criticism of your argument - you say that mobility needs to be part of a champion's power budget. I agree with you to a certain point. When creating a champion with a dash/gapcloser, Riot should then assume that champion has a guaranteed dodge or initiation when designing the rest of their kit. The problem with this is that there are still some champions who guarantee the opposite. Walk up to a Malzahar or Annie? It doesn't matter how mobile you are, because you're dead. So how do you balance mobility into a champions power budget when champions like these exist? Well you either nerf the aforementioned champions into the ground and simultaneously nerf the mobile champions, or you simply can't include mobility in the power budget simply because it's assumed that when Kalista walks within 800 range of Annie she dies 100-0.


On that note, you mentioned "hard counters." Annie/Malzahar could certainly be perceieved as hard counters to mobile champions like Kalista, Ekko, Leblanc, Zed, etc. You say introducing a lot more of these wouldn't be healthy for the game, and I agree with you there. But how do you balance out mobility without removing these ridiculous lockdown + burst mechanics from the game entirely? You either go fully in one direction, or you go fully in the other. Right now we're sitting somewhere in between, so Riot can't in good conscious release a mobile champion with crappy stats, because they simply wouldn't be able to compete with a champion like Annie who has incredibly high scaling in addition to her high range point and click (or easily landed AOE) stun.


One last point I'd like to make as a side note - a lot of people point to champions like Xerath and Velkoz as "successful" immobile champions. I agree wholeheartedly with this notion, but I believe the reason that they're successful is due to their design as a poke mage. I think immobile poke mage is a very healthy design because it relies on skillshots and good space management, but if you take mobility out of the equation suddenly this immobile poke mage becomes absurdly strong because there's no way to gapclose on them. In that sense mobility is an incredibly important stat for League because it keeps high range compositions in check.

KazaLyn Shao1 votes

Wall dashing is by far the worst part of mobility creep. It's total and utter bullshit. The rest of us have to use a massive CD summoner spell to pull that escape. Mobility champs do it every 10 seconds or less. Good luck catching them. Good luck running from them. Good luck... period. Mobility champions rule the rift right now, and I absolutely HATE it. Especially since Riot is going out of their way to butcher champions that were good at catching them, IE targeted spell control mages. Now mobility champs roam free withing to catch them but high CC tanks, which the mobility champs can't burst down. Even with those high CC tanks, you'd better pile on all of your damage at once, because there are a ton of ways to mitigate, reduce, shield, and heal damage on a caught carry. It's just a bad balance decision on the part of the Riot development team, who gave into the whiny mobility mains about the whole targeted "no counter play" trend. Now we have the "I can dash and you can't" no counter play trend. Oh, so much better.

timtimx

Your argument is so salty and meaningless, kits are pretty balanced, a LOT of champions have A LOT of mobility, its not like "mobility has been ruined because now loads of champs have it" that makes no sense, a lot of champs have a hell of a lot of mobility, those that dont, compensate for it in other ways, maybe its them being more effective in team figjhts, more burst damage, whatever. The point is if your playing champs like viegar against ahri and your salty because you got dumped on, this isnt the games fault, its your fault, because ahri has essentially 4 flashes at any one time, and you have one if you put your self in a position where she can just dart around you and kill you then you are the bad player. Ahri isnt even a hard match-up against veigar, you dodge her charm, you try and make her use ult to get around you and you one shot her when she walks into your wall of toxicity.

On the subject of mobility there is one champion that i feel pushes the boundry, that would be the stupid horse hecarim, i feel like having mobility is one thing, but gaining attack damage based on your mobility is a bit of a joke. Hecarim would still be strong if he had no bonus AD from his movement speed because mobility is such a HUGE thing for him, that hard initiation is what makes him, but just to add he can have a crazy amount of damage with this.

rockdalian1 votes

You're a bad player isn't a good argument good players have same problems period that's why you don't see good players playing immobile champs and when they do they tend to lose

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