DFT isn't even being used on DOT mages...

Velasan·Mar 7, 2016·19 votes·3,134 views

Even champs like Brand and Swain are taking Thunderlords.

So, what is the goal for Death Fire Touch? Who is it meant to be used on?

52 Comments

pE4CbxDPQOMar 7, 201612 votes

Jhin

ViashinoWizardMar 7, 20161 votes

Seriously. Ever since they changed W and R to be single-target vs. champions it's been dynamite.

(Plus it's not like any of the other keystones are good on him)

La BarbotteMar 7, 20161 votes

i think its mroe of the latter XD

MeserionMar 7, 20167 votes

I use it on brand, make him do some nasty damage. However it isn't feasible to get it if you're support as him.

NekusenMar 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I use it on brand, make him do some nasty damage. However it isn't feasible to get it if you're support as him.

it only adds 6% of his AP damage to each tick, not sure it's even worth it on brand.

Compare that with the dmg you would deal at that level with the same ap.

MeserionMar 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

it only adds 6% of his AP damage to each tick, not sure it's even worth it on brand.

or 24% of my ap over 4 seconds, not bad when I get like 400 24% of 400 is 96, that is not nothing.

La BarbotteMar 7, 20162 votes

exept thunder lord is 10 x lvl + 10% of Ap so only with levels you reach 180 (by the time you have over 400 ap, you are high lvl too) so even whithout the scaling thunder lord is better

AzyliumMar 7, 20165 votes

{quoted}

exept thunder lord is 10 x lvl + 10% of Ap so only with levels you reach 180 (by the time you have over 400 ap, you are high lvl too) so even whithout the scaling thunder lord is better

yeah but you forget smthing.Deathfire has no colddown.

La BarbotteMar 7, 20161 votes

yeah if you can spamm spell under 20 sec then its worth it but otherwise thunderlord is still better XD 20 second is one proc/wave its fast

NekusenMar 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

or 24% of my ap over 4 seconds, not bad when I get like 400 24% of 400 is 96, that is not nothing.

Not stackable with multiple spells, so 6% per tick is more appropiate. And you only reach that with a full build commited to AP, IF the game gets that far, thunderlords would still do 220 dmg with that AP

LOL SpammerMar 7, 20161 votes

6% per second is pretty substantial if you have like 400 ap.

RisenDarkKnightMar 8, 20161 votes

Especially since you can have deathfire touch running on multiple people at once (like if you ult), whereas thunderlords has a pretty small aoe.

LOL SpammerMar 8, 20161 votes

Thunderlords is no good in teamfights, especially because it has such a long cd. (For teamfights its a long cd)

WadeWilson1337Mar 7, 20164 votes

The goal of DFT was to find a reason to nerf Malzahar Swain Anivia . All were clearly too op and picked way too often. Kappa

Tangrowth HatMar 7, 20161 votes

Karthus too probably, maybe.

Silents429Mar 7, 20163 votes

Says what?

Champion.gg still shows majority of Swain players are taking the DFT.

EcchiOtakuTMMar 7, 20161 votes

Jhin, Swain, Karthus, Cassi and sometimes brand/malz take it. but brand/malz and everyone else are better off with thunderlords because the damage window for DFT to outweigh thunderlords is retardedly small since they buffed late game thunderlords to below 20 seconds CD

Silents429Mar 7, 20165 votes

But it isn't popular on them, the most common setups are still with DFT

EcchiOtakuTMMar 7, 20161 votes

Ik it isn't popular on brand/malz, just like how stormraiders isn't popular on ryze/galio (and a few others who should be abusing it). If only riot would nerf thunderlords back to a 20 second CD so DFT has a chance to shine on more champs then just the few who use it now. Additionally should increase DFT's scaling by 5% AD and 5% AP

KushDid420Mar 7, 20164 votes

You're talking out of your ass

Malz's and Brand's main source of damage come from DOT spells, why the hell would they not take DFT?

Don't go around spreading bullshit

EcchiOtakuTMMar 7, 20161 votes

Dude do you even look at how much damage you'd get out of TLD vs DFT?

Brand only likes it because he can get 8-10 seconds of ticks on an entire team vs TLD's single target.

However malz doesn't get DoTs on an entire team just 1 person and in order to hopefully out damage TLD you'd need 600AP and spells used for 8 seconds or 300AD and spells used over 8 seconds and since they buffed TLD so mid game+ it's under a 20 seconds CD it means the damage window to get 8 seconds on DFT is smaller and thus less rewarding.

Stop being a dumbass and assuming just because something applies on something it means you must take it. TLD was balanced back when the CD couldn't go below 20 seconds but now aside from brand, swain,karthus, jhin and cassi it's better to just go TLD. They need to nerf TLD so it's lowest CD is 20 seconds again. End of story.

KushDid420Mar 7, 20163 votes

The thing is, TLD is better for burst.

Malzahar and Brand have DOTs in their kit, and they both synergyze very well with them.

Malz has 3 DOT spells and Brand has it on every spell

Both of them have Ryalies and Lyandries as a core item, why? Because their kits are all DOT

Thunderlords falls off harder than DFT, late game DFT will do 200 extra damage, and if you have a DOT that is straight up monstrous because you will be applying it a lot.

EcchiOtakuTMMar 7, 20161 votes

Yea it is better for burst but atm unless they nerf it malz just can't get ticks out fast enough to make DFT anywhere near comparable to him+thunderlords.

if they nerfed TLD back to it's lowest CD being 20 seconds we'd see a larger amount of mages building it then just the current 5-6 cause I even did a large list of those who could choose DFT and apply 8-12 seconds of damage in it's damage window to about 20 champs but after they buffed TLD for no reason the patch right after buffing other keystones it made DFT less relevant again :/ Riot had good keystone comparison until they buffed TLD again.

I like all the keystones I just dont like the CD on TLD atm.

cuddlykitten4Mar 7, 20163 votes

This was a calm and thought oriented discussion until your post. Don't go around spreading bullshit.

KushDid420Mar 7, 20163 votes

Sorry if I came in too harsh but I can't stand lies like that.

There are people who may want to know what to take on Malz and Brand and if they saw that TLD was recommended they may take it over DFT.

cuddlykitten4Mar 7, 20162 votes

So you're one of those guys who thinks that the way you think is correct is the only solution? You're irrationally hateful response makes sense. I will not indulge you with comments beyond this one until you fix your attitude.

KushDid420Mar 8, 20162 votes

I never even saw you in the conversation nor did I ever even want to indulge with you but suit yourself, it was never directed towards you and I think you really need to calm down.

EcchiOtakuTMMar 8, 20161 votes

TLD offers flat hybrid penetration which is far more useful on malz than the % magic only penetration.

And malz likes short and sweet exchanges.

He can use TLD far better than DFT currently.

agbudarMar 8, 20162 votes

lol nope malz is infinitely better with death fire

EcchiOtakuTMMar 8, 20161 votes

Still depends, the 8 flat hybrid penetration+buffed thunderlord vs 4.5% penetration and DFT which you have to deal 8 seconds worth of spells to get anything out of on malz who only has 1 DoT which only affects 1 person for 5 second ticks, I mean he also has his w which would keep applying it on an entire team for 7 second ticks if they stand in it so you could get value out of DFT but not infinitely better just a choice of which you want on malz.

Feel like you're going to do short exchanges? go thunderlords, Feel like you're going to take a while in teamfights? go DFT. Where malz is concerned, he can go either.

On a side note voidling does benefit from the flat armor penetration too so playing around voidling gets easier even for ap malz with thunderlord. :P

The Voids CallMar 7, 20163 votes

Malzahar loves it I use it on AD, because it scales so insanely well

SohleksMar 7, 20162 votes

IMO it is supposed to be the dmg competitor of fervor of battle. Both these ferocity keystones scale harder than thunderlords, or should, IMO

Lil problem is most mages are burst and done, or more cc-utility based. Actually major problem is the way DFT scales purely off items and not levels and is more kit dependent. Only the best aoe/sustained kits spending big gold on AP will even consider DFT. So there's a major discrepancy on usability.

Changing the way DFT scales up as the game progresses (less item dependent) can help DFT's case. Tweaking durations of the dot could make it more viable for more champs; problem is that breaks it for its current users.

Another approach is a redesign. Something for mages the competes with fervor in the scaling department... Some kind of AP multiplier.. mental focus theme'd keystone.

IMO keystones should be less.. which one does my champion abuse best.. and more.. what is the winning condition of this game..? Am I gonna win the lane? Or scale into a monster..? Need speed? Health? Sustain? When you have keystones that are all dmg there'll always be a best choice... So best they work in different ways at different times...

NostolgicSkiesMar 7, 20162 votes

or we could just go back to masteries that didnt have keystones so we dont have to worry about balancing every champ around 9 keystones and vise versa

NazZomLordMar 7, 20162 votes

Teemo Watch em melt

agbudarMar 7, 20162 votes

Malzahar watch them melt whenever your E jumps to them.

ObericMar 7, 20161 votes

That's been half my mage games lately. I love it on Malz.

JayrettMar 7, 20161 votes

I wish I had remembered to swap to that page one game. It was a shen mid.

Skinny LatteMar 7, 20161 votes

i feel like we should be able to see DFT like how u can see thunderlords

EcchiOtakuTMMar 7, 20161 votes

THEY NEED TO NERF THUNDERLORD BACK TO 20 SECONDS CD. Thunderlord was simple to pick or choose something else the last set of keystone buffs there were until they retardedly buffed thunderlord so late game it's a 15 second CD.

You might mention that early game's CD is 25 seconds now but that doesn't matter. Now DFT has an extremely small window of damage instances to outweigh thunderlord before it comes off CD which means thunderlord is safer to proc consistently and to out damage DFT as soon as it's CD starts dropping below 20 seconds.

All riot has to do is revert thunderlord back to 20 seconds I don't even care if level 1 CD is 30/25/20 seconds but at no point in game should thunderlord CD be under 20 seconds.

They SHOULD also buff DFT and give it a 10% AD+5% AP buff

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yYBm9rXq-i-honestly-love-the-changes-placed-in-however-i-as-well-as-many-have-a-few-suggestions 7 and 36 would fix thunderlords immediately and properly open up keystone diversity.

Papa SlothyMar 7, 20161 votes

it works on champs with inconsistent damage like Jhin or the famed Heimerdinger

morris1Mar 7, 20165 votes

Hohohohoh no no no Heimerdinger is taking TLD no matter what. That level 3 W cheese is way too good.

Papa SlothyMar 7, 20161 votes

lol

MunchCrunchLunchMar 7, 20161 votes

because they nerfed it on dot mages. it used to be actually good when it first came out. on singed for example. and teemo. now it sucks on either

DorkunedAurasMar 7, 20161 votes

"good on teemo" "helps teemo"

SET THE NERF BAT ON FIRE, WE NEED A GOOD BEATING HERE.

SpoofghoulMar 7, 20161 votes

i use it on ad malz

makes my abilities deal alot more damage when im building pure ad

Duke AnaxMar 7, 20161 votes

The big ratio makes it pretty good on some AD Casters.

It's also good on anyone that constantly hits multiple targets. Thunderlords procs only once and only on one target. But DFT can hit any number of targets at once. If you spread it it can do a lot more total damage in a Teamfight than Thunderlords.

Zone control Mages and Fighters/Tanks with AoE DoTs and Damage Auras for example.

Maximum MordeMar 7, 20161 votes

Because it's ap scaling is atrociously bad. TL isntuch better, but at least it makes a cool noise.

cuddlykitten4Mar 7, 20161 votes

It's for champs like Karthus who put more reliance on one or two big spells that don't have a means to be combo'd with. Champs that hit in rapid succession like Swain or Brand are what Thunderlord's is for. Basically, the more damage contained in each individual spell, the more likely you want to take DFT instead of thunderlords. The less damage spam cast spells, or the spells that are designed as a rotating combo such as Ahri are more of a thunderlord's situation.

SukishooMar 7, 20161 votes

Draven finds it nice, it acts like his old bleeeeed :)

EcchiOtakuTMMar 8, 20161 votes

If they would nerf TLD back to 20 seconds and buff DFT by 5% AD+AP would be more mixes between who gets what. There's literally only 5 champs who can overly excel more with DFT than thunderlord if they changed them around in that manner about 10-15 more champions could outweigh TLD with it.