i submit , the meta won

omegaarab·Aug 15, 2017·44 votes·2,371 views

ive never touched an adc in all my time playing this game(disregarding featured game modes and arsm) never tried to actually learn the rople regularly and be good at it. ive always played assassins, roaming around killing everyone especially the adc so our team out dps in teamfights. now we get outlaned by mages who scale way better than us and have utility. not to mention we have the same burst window as combo mages now cuz "riot plz assassin oneshots 2 op". with ardent redemption locket jannas and lulu, ga and zhonyas, u have to try much harder and play much better than ur oppenents for a chance at winning as an assassin. guess its time to either learn adc and crit everyone to death in 3aas or become a better jg and hope i can keep them down the entire early and mid

91 Comments

captainkaigerAug 15, 201741 votes

I'll take sentence structure for 2000

EvanThomasAug 15, 20179 votes

wow we skipped straight to double jeopardy

nice tableAug 15, 20177 votes

u have to try much harder and play much better than ur oppenents for a chance at winning as an assassin

no you just have to not be horrible at the game, same skill level as your opponents suffices just fine.

nm1010Aug 15, 20174 votes

Most assassins have a time limit of how long they are useful in the game so they have to actively create advantages instead of sitting and farming (try harder). The assassin player also has to outplay (play better) the opponent to start a snowball before they get outscaled at 20-25 minutes.

nice tableAug 15, 20171 votes

well either all assassin players are gods amongst men or you are wrong and assassin players are shit so that only leaves us with one option

nm1010Aug 15, 20176 votes

No, there is a third option. Eventually people understand how assassins work and will actively help them start a snowball, from my experience this starts around high diamond. Junglers hand out ganks to you like candy if you pick an assassin, supports roam and ward for you, shoot sometimes even top laners show up occasionally.

Anywhere below that though I can be getting shoved in 24/7 with a pink in the river and my jungler will try to invade only to die and blame me. So in order to do well consistently below high diamond you have to be able to create your own leads and snowball just as I said above.

nice tableAug 15, 20173 votes

assassins generally have lane pressure and most mobility in the game at mid game, you should be playing around your jungler and other lanes not other way around. and with assassins maintaining a high win ratio at every elo you don't need to be a god to do well with them.

nm1010Aug 15, 20178 votes

assassins generally have lane pressure

Ha, depending on the match up you might have pressure at like level 3 but generally no you do not have lane pressure until level 6. At this point most mages can afk waveclear or in some cases they STILL beat you in a 1v1, you have to get a lead though or their cc or their supports 500 damage shields will outscale you in about 10-15 minutes.

you should be playing around your jungler and other lanes

It is almost like you are saying you have to make plays as an assassin, which is exactly the point being made. The assassin has to make things happen or they passively get outscaled.

and with assassins maintaining a high win ratio at every elo you don't need to be a god to do well with them.

Are you actually joking? Lets look at assassin players that are in gold elo, a nice middle ground.

Akali - 50% winrate

Ekko - 50% winrate

Fizz - 50% winrate

Kassadin - 50% winrate

Katarina - 51% winrate

Leblanc - 47% winrate

Talon - 52% winrate

Zed - 49% winrate

Now let's compare that to other mid lane win rates...

https://i.gyazo.com/d613068a3e5b254271de80823f0e6400.png

The first assassin is the 14th highest winrate, far from a top tier winrate.

nice tableAug 15, 20174 votes

tfw diana isn't an assassin, also using champion.gg for stats is a pretty dank meme

nm1010Aug 15, 20179 votes

She isn't, riot has classified her as a diver. I used league of graphs actually for all the individual stats and champion.gg for an easier picture. For assassins the statistics were almost all within the same .1-.2% area, but continue to nit pick it really makes it look like you have any idea what you are talking about.

NineTailedMysticAug 15, 20171 votes

na.op.gg (which is admittedly Korean stats) has Kat (3rd place), Talon (8th place), Kassadin (10th place), Ekko (12th place), and Fizz (13th place) as well as all of them having about a 5% or higher pick rate. Seems like Assassins are doing well over there to me, for being Korean Plat+ where high elo should be where Assassins falter.

nm1010Aug 15, 20172 votes

Why did you jump in and list statistics for high Elo when the entire point was the fact he claimed assassins overperform in all elos?

Maybe you should go read the comment chain to catch up on what's being discussed if you would like a conversation.

Edit: and where did you get this "assassins falter at high elo" idea? A team is 100x better at playing around assassins at high elo and actively support them snowballing.

nice tableAug 15, 20171 votes

even on champion.gg the majority of them have an above average win ratio, really shows how mid lane assassins are struggling eh

nm1010Aug 15, 20172 votes

Define above average, they are below many mages in win rates and typically have more experienced players playing them.

Or have you defaulted to repeating yourself when you have no argument?

nice tableAug 16, 20171 votes

the definition of above average is literally above average aka something being above the average or ... i mean there isn't any other way to say it. basically means a champion has a win ratio that's above the average win ratio which is 50%.

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

Average - A calculated "central" value of a set of numbers

For mid laners the average win ratio (in gold at least) is actually 50.554%, I calculated the average out for you :) The only assassins that sit above that line according to op.gg sorted by this month in gold are

Katarina - 51.32%

Talon - 52.16%

Would you like to know how many mages are above a 50.554% winrate?

#15

nice tableAug 16, 20171 votes

you do realize its literally impossible for mid to have an average win ratio that's over 50%? both teams have a mid laner and one of the 2 mid laners always wins so the average is always 50%.

also there are 2 assassins bellow 50% win ratio, would you like to know how many mages have bellow 50% win ratio? hehexd

nm1010Aug 16, 20172 votes

you do realize its literally impossible for mid to have an average win ratio that's over 50%? both teams have a mid laner and one of the 2 mid laners always wins so the average is always 50%.

You do realize people troll with off meta mids right? I can't track those so the average is going to be slightly over 50%.

also there are 2 assassins bellow 50% win ratio, would you like to know how many mages have bellow 50% win ratio? hehexd

there are 3 assassins below a 50% winrate on op.gg and 7 mages If you count Azir and Ryze who are intentionally kept at a garbage winrate.

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

It would make sense if the whole point of the discussion wasn't that assassin's have a higher skill requirement than mages. Remember your claim that assassins over performed at every elo?

Not to mention my stats are still gold ranked only, its not like we are including normals. These are all people who actively picked these champions with the intention of winning.

nice tableAug 16, 20171 votes

assassins require you to look at the map to be able to make use of them, that doesn't mean that they are very skill god players it just means the people are playing champions that require you to look at the map, much like strong roaming supports and gank heavy junglers. bronze players can't cs but it doesn't mean that champions that are easy to cs with even for bronzies are easier to play than other champions it just means the bronze players are horrible to the point where irrelevant things make something strong for them.

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

So assassins require additional skills that mages do not require? I assume you are talking about making roam plays when you talk about map awareness so that goes back to my statement "they have to actively create advantages instead of sitting and farming" which is a more difficult play style.

nice tableAug 16, 20171 votes

it's not a more difficult play style its just less conventional if you will, its kind of like when you start going to the shooting range and use a pistol for the first year it will be more difficult for you to use an ak compared to a pistol even though using an ak is actually easier.

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

You are comparing a highly elaborate game with many many moving parts to recreational shooting, something that is quite literally point and click...

Maybe you just aren't capable of grasping the difficulty of a task or understanding mid lane laning. Trust the guy with thousands of games of mid lane in all elos when he says that assassins are much harder to play with the only benefit to this difficulty being their ability to snowball if you are skilled enough to pull it off.

nice tableAug 16, 20171 votes

actually used to main mid lane and moved to assassins because of how much mechanically easier it was to win games with them rather than mages.

also from what i see you have only been gold not "every elo"

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

All I see is volibear malphite WW every season, I'd love a link.

also from what i see you have only been gold not "every elo"

I was in D3 promos with a near 70% winrate last season in 200 games before getting bored, my MMR was high enough I was frequently on pro streams (though normally top lane because fuck secondary roles).

https://i.gyazo.com/cc9fba21a79d2b7362e130cfcbcdd33a.png

This season I can't get mid lane to save my life and quite frankly high elo is toxic as fuck if you don't play meta picks, I had a D1 Caitlyn int 3 games in a row for picking Morgana middle.

nice tableAug 16, 20171 votes

can't provide you with a link as the first 3 seasons i played on a eune account that got perma banned for account sharing.

meme queue rank doesn't count, especially when you were one the people abusing the premade queues.

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

meme queue rank doesn't count, especially when you were one the people abusing the premade queues.

I played solo in a queue full of boosters, if anything that seems like it would be harder... Regardless of what you think I quite literally have wins against Viper, Tarzaned, Aphromoo, etc.

can't provide you with a link as the first 3 seasons i played on a eune account that got perma banned for account sharing.

So you are talking about balance from years ago and how it applies to assassins today? That seems like some flawed logic if I've ever heard it.

nice tableAug 16, 20171 votes

assassins haven't really changed since season 3, if anything they have been dumbed down.

also it seems like an awful coincidence that a god player such as your self has always been gold, climbed quickly on the 1 season where no1 cared about ranks and the ladder was boosted as fuck and now has quickly fallen back to gold with a bad win ratio after meme queue is over.

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

assassins haven't really changed since season 3, if anything they have been dumbed down.

This is how I know you don't play assassins lol.

also it seems like an awful coincidence that a god player such as your self has always been gold, climbed quickly on the 1 season where no1 cared about ranks and the ladder was boosted as fuck and now has quickly fallen back to gold with a bad win ratio after meme queue is over.

I've always climbed quickly, in fact I don't even have 1k ranked games after 4 seasons of ranked play. As for the win ratio I planned on learning different champs with the reset, then was constantly against D1+ in secondary role. Notice that Sion is my most played champion with Ivern close behind...

And if you wanted the account I currently play on you can ask

https://i.gyazo.com/d9bf6a042a23420ac7654926cf856a1c.png

It is sitting around low diamond mmr.

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

I've had stalking problems in the past so sorry no, I will downvote you with all of my accounts to confirm I do indeed have many though.

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

Says the guy that can't link his mid lane account that totally exists... But I've let you ad hominem long enough, do you have anything else to say to disprove assassins being universally harder than mages? Because you have been avoiding the subject for a few posts to try to attack my rank which has no bearing on this.

nm1010Aug 16, 20171 votes

I literally gave you the average winrate and showed how mages vastly out number assassins above that average. You then brought up Kassadins plat+ winrate when we were talking about gold.

In fact I think you have said lmao more than you have said anything to support your point...

As for proof its scattered all over my ranked history

https://i.gyazo.com/b9f7b5c510a64a165652d7647691905c.png

nice tableAug 16, 20171 votes

im pretty sure if we take the average of every mid lane assassins win ratio and every mid lane mages win ratio the assassins would be higher.

i don't see how your match history proves anything but i would still like to see your challenjour account though.

nm1010Aug 17, 20172 votes

im pretty sure if we take the average of every mid lane assassins win ratio and every mid lane mages win ratio the assassins would be higher.

Nope its 51.48 to 50.71 in favor of mages even with Azir and Ryze included, the two intentionally garbage champions.

i don't see how your match history proves anything but i would still like to see your challenjour account though.

Please quote where I said I had a challenger account, I have played with plenty of challengers is what I said which is exactly what the match history shows. Now this has no bearing on the discussion, I know you have no argument anymore so you are just trying to distract from the topic. But it would be great if you could at least be creative with distractions, it gets boring after you try to use the same one for the third time.

nice tableAug 17, 20171 votes

eh you told me to ask you for the account you currently play on and i did, don't see where the issue is with you providing it. i get it you don't want to admit you were lying but it really shouldn't be this difficult to you.

nm1010Aug 17, 20171 votes

Last chance to get on topic, provide an argument or the matter will be considered closed.

nice tableAug 17, 20171 votes

its weird how we both know you are lying but its too hard for you to just come out and admit it, really reminds me of the 12 year olds :^)

nm1010Aug 17, 20171 votes

I literally have given you a picture of my match history in a game with aphromoo, you could spend 5 minutes looking around and easily find other known challengers.

If you want to talk about children, ignoring an argument and repeating an ad hominem seems like a very grown up thing to do...

nice tableAug 17, 20171 votes

And if you wanted the account I currently play on you can ask

still waiting

FairyfleurAug 15, 20171 votes

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but winrates mean nothing if a 50%+ champion has a low playrate.

nm1010Aug 15, 20172 votes

If a champion has ~300 games played with almost a 55% winrate, should we:

A) Take their position as stated for analytical purposes?

B) Try to guesstimate a 'better' winrate?

Personally I like to take established data over guesstimating, especially since the point is mages perform better with less work. A higher winrate with little playrate (and low average games played) means someone can pick up a champion and do exceptionally well with little to no work.

So sure normally you want an established winrate, but in context this data is absolutely fine.

FairyfleurAug 15, 20172 votes

I'm talking more about the winrates that accomplished mains and/or onetricks make. Someone like Aurelion Sol has a low playrate, but a high winrate. However, that's no reason to nerf him just because the mains are doing well.

nm1010Aug 15, 20171 votes

Well first off no one is talking about nerfing anything on the list.

Now for an example Anivia middle is on the list, the people playing her on average have played her 3 times. Yet even with this lack of experience they pull out a 55% winrate, no assassin has that type of pick up and win a majority of game ability.

FairyfleurAug 15, 20172 votes

I should've clarified on that first part.

However, Anivia and a few other picks are definitely too strong.

Handin Out NapsAug 15, 20172 votes

I agree with this lol. Its so annoying to be shoved by a mage as Zed early game but for some reason your jungler chooses to hover everywhere but mid. Its like they don't understand they can win the game at 20 minutes by pressuring for Zed early. Even at D3 people still didn't understand that, idk its just bizarre.

HammermancerAug 15, 20177 votes

why aren't you just trying out the tank fighting bruisers who have somewhat assassiny playstyles

like.. idunno

there's Irelia, Kayn, kled, jayce, diana, even akali and they can all be built as anti-tanks

GayFluffyUnicornAug 16, 20172 votes

And every single one of them is shit as hell in decent elos. KAyn is good in red form. Jayce just gets camped or outscaled. Diana why even pick this champ. Irelia and kled just get peeled away same as akali. Bruisers are shit.

RainbowIceeAug 16, 20171 votes

Jayce is still pretty good, his main weakness is getting shut down but once he makes it through he's staying in game. He scales pretty well late game considering his utility.

Alex h8721Aug 24, 20171 votes

Lol, Im sorry but jayce doesn't really have utility, he has 1 cc which is a self peel, other than that he has poke and a lot of split push power. Utility = playmaking power w/ CC to engage/disengage, or play stopping power, shields heals etc.