Elise the went from broken to useless

amnesio·Apr 18, 2015·112 votes·8,589 views

sure elise is the champion with the lowest winrate in the game with a global 43% winrate. No one plays Elise. She used to be the best duelist on the game. I once had a jayce chasing me at 25% health and he had 100% of his hp, with about equal gold and level, I turned around used all of my abilities and killed him, that was clearly broken. Now Elise is a terrible jungler, a terrible mid laner, and a terrible top laner. I know how to use her abilities very well, its not how people are using her, it's her balance. Riot nerfed her way to hard.

115 Comments

4nth0l0gyApr 18, 201514 votes

I remember when Elise was good...

...not sure I liked it...

But, she deserves some compensation. I think that will require tweaking her kit slightly, but she has a neat theme and style of play. Even if I don't like her much, that shouldn't discourage others from playing her on the principle of her being underpowered.

HeWolfApr 19, 201513 votes

Don't use the C-word!! We all know how Veigar's c******ation went, we don't want Elise to experience that too...

Ancestor007Apr 19, 20151 votes

She kinda experienced it already...

HeWolfApr 19, 20151 votes

Not at all. She got repeated nerfs, she didn't experience the one and only one-patch C-DOOM.

Ancestor007Apr 20, 20151 votes

Oh... i see now

windwolf777Apr 19, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=CC Shepherd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tpMIq4fa,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-04-18T22:16:07.176+0000)

But, she deserves some "compensation".

We don't use that word unless we want a champ to get Veigar 'd out of existence. However, I wouldn't mind some bug buffs

OyddAWqJ5rApr 19, 20157 votes

Because they tried to create a second LeeSin but then realized that Elise was consistently meeting the same level of performance as LeeSin which is definitely not allowed. Thus the Riot saints graced us with their judgement to nerf the Blind Monk blaspheming Spider Queen to oblivion, as is the fate of all heretics that go against our one true god LeeSin .

In all honesty though, that kit was overloaded in both versatility and statistics but only because it was tailored to a mage/fighter role. If it was tailored to the mage/assassin role instead it wouldn't have been anywhere near as oppressive as the more fighter-esque state they released it in -- to which they then consistently made changes to reinforce while completely eliminating any hope of being an assassin and deterring her nearly nonexistant mage role more and more with each change.

Heck, I don't know why her current label isn't fighter/mage instead of mage/fighter. It would make more sense given her current state.

AelvrApr 20, 20152 votes

I would love to see Elise as an assassin instead of the Liandry's bruiser mess. The latter seemed like such a waste her other abilities, especially Skittering Frenzy. That ability is so much fun when you go AP-heavy and all five spiderlings survive the damage. Crazy dueling!

AwoofApr 20, 20151 votes

Still sounds more of a bruiser pattern than an assassin to me. An assassin doesn't really duel you.

AelvrApr 20, 20151 votes

True, but the point being heavy that Elise should rely on heavy AP itemization, some survivability if needed (Like AP Fizz) vs. penetration, then straight tank.

bradApr 18, 201512 votes

i dont think anyone is arguing that elise isnt garbage tier right now

not even riot

yukonlApr 18, 20158 votes

Prior to being nerfed numerous times, Elise was considered a better Lee Sin (jack of all trades). Mobility, Long stun, innate healing with attack speed steroid, untargetability, ranged homing AOE harass, missing health percentage damage, current health percentage damage, above average clears. She clearly can't be balanced just by numbers since she'll just be broken/useless. She needs a soft kit rework that includes counter play so that Riot can buff her numbers without worrying about her being broken/useless.

RetillinApr 19, 20153 votes

Sad that I have to scroll down this far to find someone who knows her kit is the problem and needs to be worked before she can really be buffed.

Creamy SeamanApr 18, 20154 votes

elise can build tanky and still chunk half your health

Penguin EclipseApr 18, 201551 votes

{quoted}

elise can build tanky and still chunk half your health

She can. But she is likely to die before she takes the second half of your health.

Rew711Apr 18, 20158 votes

BURN!

Creamy SeamanApr 19, 20151 votes

LOL someone that build one damage item aka abyssal scepter should be able to chunk half your health with one combo? AND from a range?

AbyssphereApr 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

LOL someone that build one damage item aka abyssal scepter should be able to chunk half your health with one combo? AND from a range?

Human QW is not taking half your health. And yes, people building one damage item should be able to chunk half your health in one combo. It's kind of what bruisers do.

Creamy SeamanApr 19, 20151 votes

that makes so much sense.

AbyssphereApr 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

that makes so much sense.

It's just what happens. There is an entire class of champions built around building a small amount of damage, then full tank, and still being able to do stupid amounts of damage. Maybe Elise is the only bruiser you've ever faced but she was never unique.

Synx7Apr 18, 201510 votes

{quoted}

elise can build tanky and still chunk half your health

LeeSin main confirmed. Thats why Elise got f**ed in the first place. To be worse, they gutted her after they gave us the victorious skin

Joe DreddApr 18, 201511 votes

I was hoping they'd do the same for morg

JevelFaithfulApr 19, 20151 votes

Champion get skin becuase she is popular (and powerful). Get nerfed somewhere after because she is popular (and powerful). Illuminati confirmed. Connect the dots sheeple!

ThePotatomonsterApr 20, 20152 votes

oooooooo i like connecting the dots =D

vIbvdOwbkoApr 19, 20154 votes

Elise is not as bad as everyone makes her out to be.

The retarded low elo on lol community sites overexaggerate things so often. This is a prime case of just that.

LankPantsApr 19, 201519 votes

Meteos, who was considered to be the best Elise player in NA said that Elise is too weak to be played anywhere after her last set of nerfs. But I'm sure you know more than him.

vIbvdOwbkoApr 19, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Meteos, who was considered to be the best Elise player in NA said that Elise is too weak to be played anywhere after her last set of nerfs. But I'm sure you know more than him.

I agree that she's not good right now but she's far from useless.

Not being good =/= useless

You guys are literally making her out to be the worst champion in the game with little to no tools to accomplish anything.

How about toning down the drama and maybe people will take you guys seriously. Stop exaggerating shit.

Lost In TimeApr 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How about toning down the drama and maybe people will take you guys seriously. Stop exaggerating shit.

That isn't likely to happen.

Look at tanks. Been fine since forever, but the community cried and cried and cried till they got "buffed" and now they're suddenly viable everywhere.

LankPantsApr 19, 20153 votes

Look at tanks. Been fine since forever, but the community cried and cried and cried till they got "buffed" and now they're suddenly viable everywhere.

Real tanks mostly hadn't been viable since season 2, they definitely hadn't been viable junglers. Even when people were complaining about the "tank" meta in S4 it was actually just tanky bruisers like Shyv and Mundo who were powerful.

Tanks still aren't viable everywhere. They obviously aren't playable ADC or Mid and I'd argue that they also aren't playable top lane with the exceptions of Maokai and Sion, but they were played top even before the introduction of Cinderhulk.

The champs who are taking smite+cinder top are bruisers. You're not suddenly seeing Naut vs Mumu top every game. People are running smite on Shyv and Hec, neither of whom are actually tanks.

TerchioApr 19, 20151 votes

At S4, the biggest problems were Amumu and Rammus, actually. Shyv did have her moment then, too, but the other two were most certainly the main event. I don't think Mundo had been that much a problem, either, unless he snuck in behind several others.

LankPantsApr 19, 20152 votes

Mumu was like one patch in S3. Ram was one patch in late S4, it just happened to be the patch worlds was played on.

Shy and Mundo were dominant during the first half of S4 alongside Ren. They were the top 3 top laners for around 5 months straight.

TerchioApr 20, 20151 votes

Not even close. Amumu and Rammus were far worse because they were heavy team utility, but also because their jungles were supercharged with the new Quill Coat builds (basically old Cinderhulk).

N30NP4NDAApr 19, 20151 votes

"I'd argue that they also aren't playable top lane with the exceptions of Maokai and Sion" Because Gnar isn't viable...

LankPantsApr 19, 20152 votes

Gnar's viable, but he's not a tank. He's a bruiser, just like Shyv and Mundo. I'd argue a far worse designed one as he has access to far too much CC/Damage/Mobility.

N30NP4NDAApr 20, 20151 votes

Gnar Isn't a tank?

http://www.gameondaily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/latest.jpg

LankPantsApr 20, 20151 votes

Not really. He has an entire form with 0 utility that he occupies for around 75% of the game. What does he have in both forms? Damage that makes him more of a bruiser than a tank.

N30NP4NDAApr 20, 20151 votes

http://www.optimum7.com/internet-marketing/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Jackie-Chan-I-Cannot.jpg

Learn what a tank is.

LankPantsApr 19, 20154 votes

Not being good =/= useless

She has one of the lowest win rates of any champ in the game, along with one of the lowest play rates. Most of the community seem to think she's not worth playing at all.

Even looking past that it's easy to find picks that aren't that good that currently fill her niche better than her. I'd consider Naut to better than her at almost everything right now. He brings the same pick potential as she does with his Q, has better lock down when he catches a target, has better late game damage and is much harder to kill.

The only thing Elise really has over Naut is early game damage, but that's heavily devalued in the new jungle. Naut is not a top tier jungle pick, which shows the state that Elise is in at the moment is fairly bad.

vIbvdOwbkoApr 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She has one of the lowest win rates of any champ in the game, along with one of the lowest play rates. Most of the community seem to think she's not worth playing at all.

Even looking past that it's easy to find picks that aren't that good that currently fill her niche better than her. I'd consider Naut to better than her at almost everything right now. He brings the same pick potential as she does with his Q, has better lock down when he catches a target, has better late game damage and is much harder to kill.

The only thing Elise really has over Naut is early game damage, but that's heavily devalued in the new jungle. Naut is not a top tier jungle pick, which shows the state that Elise is in at the moment is fairly bad.

Elise is bad but not useless. She is outclassed at the moment, but I have faith that she'll be a lot better if Cinderhulk junglers are nerfed.

KairyaApr 19, 20158 votes

She had these problems already before Cinderhulk even existed...

mi ramfanApr 19, 20151 votes

{quoted} I'd consider Naut to better than her at almost everything right now. He brings the same pick potential as she does with his Q, has better lock down when he catches a target, has better late game damage and is much harder to kill.

The only thing Elise really has over Naut is early game damage, but that's heavily devalued in the new jungle. Naut is not a top tier jungle pick, which shows the state that Elise is in at the moment is fairly bad.

Sorry but this comparison is ridiculous. Nautilus is a jungler who builds full tank to get the scaling on his W and exists purely to CC people for days while soaking an unholy amount of damage. Elise is a jungler who always gets 1-2 AP/Mpen items and has a little bit of everything in her kit. Comparing the two just doesn't make any sense because the only thing they have in common is that they're junglers.

Elise is a champion who's designed to do a little bit of everything, much like Lee Sin and J4. And much like Lee Sin and J4, whenever she's viable half the junglers are just completely outclassed by her.

Yeah, she sucks, because the game is worse off overall when she doesn't suck.

If you want a strong Elise, you HAVE to be willing to give some things up in exchange for compensation. I know people hate that word ever since Veigar but it's just a fact of the game. She simply can't be buffed in much the same way that Lee Sin and J4 can't be buffed.

What weaknesses are you willing to accept in exchange for gaining new strengths?

metaworldpeace10Apr 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=mi ramfan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tpMIq4fa,comment-id=000d0000000000010001,timestamp=2015-04-19T19:40:37.228+0000)

Sorry but this comparison is ridiculous. Nautilus is a jungler who builds full tank to get the scaling on his W and exists purely to CC people for days while soaking an unholy amount of damage. Elise is a jungler who always gets 1-2 AP/Mpen items and has a little bit of everything in her kit. Comparing the two just doesn't make any sense because the only thing they have in common is that they're junglers.

Elise is a champion who's designed to do a little bit of everything, much like Lee Sin and J4. And much like Lee Sin and J4, whenever she's viable half the junglers are just completely outclassed by her.

Yeah, she sucks, because the game is worse off overall when she doesn't suck.

If you want a strong Elise, you HAVE to be willing to give some things up in exchange for compensation. I know people hate that word ever since Veigar but it's just a fact of the game. She simply can't be buffed in much the same way that Lee Sin and J4 can't be buffed.

What weaknesses are you willing to accept in exchange for gaining new strengths?

I 100% agree. When she's strong, she's overbearing. I wouldn't mind the removal of her stun, while giving her some mana buffs and some assassination power.

YOUGOTKILLEDBROApr 19, 20154 votes

First Ten Minutes: Elise : I am the queen of the jungle! After 15 minutes: Elise : Why am I 3-20-5!?

FeathermaneApr 19, 20153 votes

The nerfs were required because her kit is, like, totally overloaded and toxic/anti-fun. I mean, she has a thin skillshot stun that does no damage, how broken is that? Broken enough to take up half of her power budget, if you ask me.

ArtMurderApr 18, 20152 votes

I actually really enjoy Elise as she is and would appreciate her to not be buffed into the sky or nerfed into the ground. I win most of the games i play with her and tbh just cause you're bad with her doesnt mean shes a bad champ.

AbyssphereApr 18, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I actually really enjoy Elise as she is and would appreciate her to not be buffed into the sky or nerfed into the ground. I win most of the games i play with her and tbh just cause you're bad with her doesnt mean shes a bad champ.

How about you don't assume that someone saying a champion is bad doesn't know how to play them.

Pros have called her bad. I'm pretty sure they know her better than you.

Zair UmbrasApr 19, 20152 votes

Which pros? 'Cause we've seen a lot of people get to 'pro' and be pretty bad. You know... Like Reginald. TSM sucked. Then Regi stopped playing.

AbyssphereApr 19, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tpMIq4fa,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2015-04-19T04:18:11.754+0000)

Which pros? 'Cause we've seen a lot of people get to 'pro' and be pretty bad. You know... Like Reginald. TSM sucked. Then Regi stopped playing.

Cloud 9's Meteos is the main one (his quote was "if she builds damage she can maybe kill someone and then die immediately whereas if she builds tank she's useless all game"), and Elise was one of his favourite champions. Not sure how good you consider him but he's the jungler on the second best NA team :P I think I've seen more though... (Formerly) TSM Amazing comes to mind and I've seen the TSM coach TheOddOne say the meta is also not in her favour.

Zair UmbrasApr 19, 20151 votes

Who doesn't consider Meteos good? Not a surprise that she isn't in a good place though since her CC is minimal, her E is hard to control since it has the cast time going up, plenty of time to dash out of it and all, and of course her damage doing mostly %'s with her ratios even giving her %'s so she does the same amount to a tank as she would a squishy (If she has a Void Staff at least).

She does have some really interesting tricks with her W in human and Q in spider form. I shan't give my secrets on how some of them abilities work overly well together, but she could use some better numbers or her E simply letting her dive up a bit faster.

aperson1Apr 19, 20152 votes

I once had a jayce chasing me at 25% health and he had 100% of his hp, with about equal gold and level, I turned around used all of my abilities and killed him, that was clearly broken.

I don't get how it's ok for LeBlanc to do this but not for Elise?

The seductive spider luring you into her trap and punishing you for following her is not OK, but some half naked clown jumping on top of you to kill you is?