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total for damage, defense, mobility

Plasma Servant··1 votes·417 views

risk/reward is supposed to be balanced, yet there are champions that have cc, tankiness, and huge damage (think wukong). There ought to be a balance between the parts. And no champion should have more everything. If a scaling factor for damage vs defense could be made, and adjusted for things like cc. Then the total ought to be the same for all champions, and adding attack should diminish health/defense. Putting in cc should drop both. But ultimately, all the elements should add to a specific number when looking at the total. Wukong could not have so much defense and still be able to attack at high damage rates, especially with his knock-up ult (with a 400% ad added in). Syndra might be able to do a 2000 ap damage, but then she would also be so vulnerable that a support could kill her with little effort (think 4 basic attacks from a low to medium powered champion). If a Syndra doesn't want to die easy, then build more sustain (which would by force drop her power). Maybe the total ought to be about 2500 ... or maybe 3000. You could then have 2900 attack but then only have 100 health. Or 2900 health and then only 100 attack. Put in a " speed"

That would be total balance, and would make the strategic decisions (how to build) much more challenging. Different champions would then start with some basic balance, and items could reward play with allowing additional crafting of the overall numbers, but the numbers should only grow very marginally (if 3000 is the base for all champions, 3500 ought to be close to the top end).

Say goodbye to a champion that can come in, destroy you and get away without any chance of your being able to kill them (regardless of what champion they are or what champion you are). Strategy becomes much more important if champions don't really work well if they can insta-kill any other champion. It would actually take thought beyond "who is weakest, and how can I move tactically to be able to get in, kill, get out?" It would take much more than just tactics and every 1v1 battle would not be one sided. Way more fun ... less like a FPS.

2 Comments

67chrome1 votes

There ought to be a balance between the parts.

There is. The issue here is you're looking at a very small amount of power.

There isn't just "damage", there's front-loaded damage, area-effect damage, damage that's very reliable, damage that's increadibly accurate, ranged damage, damage in moderate AoEs, damage in massive AoEs, early-game damage, mid-game damage, late-game damage, damage that's respectable on a tanky DPS, damage that's good against 1 archetype and not another.

All champion values shift throughout the course of a game as well. Damage, Defense, Sustain, Mobility, Range, CC, Utilities, Burst, Sustained damage: none of these things are constant throughout the course of a game. The relative strength of many of these things also change based on how well you acquire gold and experience compared to your opponents, as well as what you invest that experience and gold on and in what order you do so.

As for total for damage, defense, mobility: There are more metrics than just 1 Riot tends to balance champions on from what I've noticed.

Damage dealt to other champions and CC is usually in one metric. Defense, Mobility, and Range are in another, to put forth a very rudimentary set.

Defense, Mobility, and Range are about surviving long enough to do your job. Damage and CC are your job.

The fact you never mentioned range as a strength is also a little disturbing, because that one's pretty substantial.

Say goodbye to a champion that can come in, destroy you and get away without any chance of your being able to kill them (regardless of what champion they are or what champion you are). Strategy becomes much more important if champions don't really work well if they can insta-kill any other champion. It would actually take thought beyond "who is weakest, and how can I move tactically to be able to get in, kill, get out?" It would take much more than just tactics and every 1v1 battle would not be one sided. Way more fun ... less like a FPS.

Plenty of time to respond, especially with defense and damage being counterweights, sounds a lot like a turn-based JRPG game like Final Fantasy. I'm not sure more like Final Fantasy is more fun. Generally speaking, the combat in Final Fantasy is the low part of that game's interest curve. The high points are more the generally fantastic storyline (excluding 13) and exploration. And if you really like grindy/slow combat, that's essentially what killing minions is.

LoL's high points are specifically supposed to be the PvP combat. There is no stroy line at all, there's nothing new to explore in the terrain, no random loot drops: it's all about PvP, and the promise that if you're skilled enough: you can carry your entire team on your back, running in and destroying your opponents, crushing them under your feet, watching them before you. The fantasy of LoL is a lot closer to that of an FPS than your typical RPG, and FPS combat lends itself very well to competitive play and tournaments.

Plasma Servant1 votes

I don't see how what I propose is turn based ... both players are in real time. And there still could be teamwork (high defense, low damage champion that has some cc) working with a high damage champion. But it is absurd that a darius can waltz into the path of an anivia, get hit with the anivia's full kit (including her ult) and wipe her out just as soon as he isn't stunned. His abilities shut down her ult, deal damage over time, and he has enough sustain to survive everything anivia can push, and then he can in 2 seconds drop her from full to zero health. He has huge damage huge health, his ult refunds its mana and resets on kills. His ratios are high as all get out. In short, he very quickly becomes a pain. (BTW, I'm not just talking about SR, the game is not all about ranked play, but all modes and maps.)

I do understand the different kinds of damage ... but overall, the potential is what I would like to balance with defense. AoE that has DoT and on cast is something that provides a higher potential damage (think an AP nasus in aram) than an ezreal q. Five champions, drop health, and if they are stupid enough to stay there, they get drained quickly with nasus e, Ez will do a single champion damage with his q, and that can be fairly high damage, but he certainly has to hit more than just that to deal the entire enemy team damage (and while his ult could do that, it would be less to subsequent champions). Add to that nasus has a lot of sustain, and he has less risk than many ... he is totally beast in aram.

Yet what I'm really talking about solving is that any champion vs any other champion needs to be 1v1 balanced ... high damage should be paired with low health/defense. So that any champion that as they build one aspect, they decrease in the others, even during game. So if someone wants to play go in, kill, get out they have the real prospect that soraka could just as easily kill them in the exchange. Cassiopeia is somewhat like this ... she does do a lot of damage, but she is also squishy as all get out ... she MIGHT be able to get in, kill, get out, but there is a good possibility that she will get in, get killed, game over.

Some champions are very balanced ... teemo has no real insta-kill potential (okay, he does have shrooms that he can leave all over, but as an ult, they don't deal a lot of damage and if they get a kill, it is because of other damage (either from another champion, or from his poking). He has a moderate escape (run throw shrooms, hit w to move fast, blind enemy to try to get away) but you have to be very good with a teemo to get anywhere near the kill and get out of any other assassin (his secondary role). He has minimal sustain (his e and w do nothing for spell vamp, and he is squishy) and his ult is countered by any champion that builds an item that reveals traps (or buys the consumable). Teemo is a pain, but he is a very counterable pain by nearly any champion.

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