In 8.2, Kog W dealt 7% max HP at max rank. He was too strong, and had a 53% win rate.
In 8.3, Kog W deals 5% max HP at max rank. He's too weak, sitting at a 47% win rate, the lowest of any ADC.
In 8.4, Kog W will deal 6% max HP at max rank. The hope is that this will be a happy medium, and he'll be balanced after this.
Calm your tits. Just because you don't like ADC's doesn't mean Riot should leave him in the dumpster.
KVbqbFsC8e14 votesI don't think people care if he's still going to be weaker than before. The fact that he's getting buffed one patch later makes it seem a little unfair when you look at other champions who are indeed "left in the dumpster".
ProfDrDeath19 votesBecause other champions require more resource-intensive changes than Kog. Since his performance has been proven to react so sensitive to changing W's numbers, changing the value from "gutting" to "nerfing with the aim of balance" is literally changing 4 numbers in the code. Manhours required: 1 hour at most.
Note that Riot seldomly undoes a nerf if a champion has been hit too hard. This is because, most of the time, performance does not linearily scale with numbers (for instance, a 5 damage nerf could make the difference between a skill clearing caster minions at rank 4 or 5, or requiring another auto-attack to kill a jungle monster off). In Kog's case, due to the lever being a long-duration single target damage buff, his effectiveness should actually scale linearily with the numbers.
H00KIE1 votesBecause other champions require more resource-intensive changes than Kog. Since his performance has been proven to react so sensitive to changing W's numbers, changing the value from "gutting" to "nerfing with the aim of balance" is literally changing 4 numbers in the code. Manhours required: 1 hour at most.
Note that Riot seldomly undoes a nerf if a champion has been hit too hard. This is because, most of the time, performance does not linearily scale with numbers (for instance, a 5 damage nerf could make the difference between a skill clearing caster minions at rank 4 or 5, or requiring another auto-attack to kill a jungle monster off). In Kog's case, due to the lever being a long-duration single target damage buff, his effectiveness should actually scale linearily with the numbers.
Good post, I made a point like this somewhere as well. The characters who are doing bad, like Jhin, need much more than just one ability buffed.
saltran8 votesFor me it's an awful opinion: "my champ is trash so I wish your champ drops to the garbage"
Rito is actually trying to let him viable but no OP and almost everyone seems to hate it. For me is a good decision.
YumaS2Astral5 votesI think I can understand the people's feelings. After all, it is no fun to have your champion be garbage tier for months, then you see a certain champion being fixed in one patch.
It is certainly frustrating, but people need to remember that not every champion is easy to fix, and that to wish the other champions are garbage isn't a good thing.
ZephyrDrake2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tWJb4ElJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-13T21:28:36.691+0000)
I don't think people care if he's still going to be weaker than before. The fact that he's getting buffed one patch later makes it seem a little unfair when you look at other champions who are indeed "left in the dumpster".
ok so you want these champions to be left weak just because others are? this type of mentality is wrong in so many ways. If a champion was too strong with certain numbers, too weak with just this slight change why not have a number in between? it's very simple and very easy to implement vs "hey let's look at X champion and figure out why he is weak, we need to revise all this previous data that might not even be relevant to begin with and then look for a way to tackle this champion without overbuffing him or making a change that won't really affect him much"
There are very few champions that are "left in the dumpster" even if you want to believe otherwise
Neidox6 votesFrozen mallet is also being reverted. yay /s
no to toxic1 votesSeriously though seems like they fixed it by making it clash with Trinity and Black Cleaver meaning it will be less efficient and less useful for Gnar
DeusVult4 votesHonestly I think that Kog's low winrate this patch has been due to many people still playing him and thinking that he has the damage from 8.2 The damage to literally just sit in front and drop W and auto people without positioning or kiting, especially if they have a lulu or janna.
They continue to do that same crap, but the damage got reduced, so they die, and it drags down his winrate. It would be nice to get back to a level where adcs actually have to position to deal damage safely.
GayFluffyUnicorn5 votesYeah god forbid ad carries actually need skill anymore. The amount of ad carries from low to high diamond who can't even kite, let alone orbwalked is way too high. Even ad carries are bitching about these trashcans just riding the freelo duo bot train. If you look at kog his pickrate dropped like MASSIVELY 10-15% depending on the site. The rest left are probably the idiots who never read patch notes and think they can still walk up level 3 and just kill the enemy botlane.
Nanuk Pihoqahiak3 votesIt's more that he got nerfed, then immediately rebalanced. Other characters in the game will be nerfed, and just left in a state of useless until another season starts, sometimes longer.
Pika Fox2 votesKog is one of the few champs that almost literally define a full meta by themselves. Protect the carry comps exist almost exclusively for kog and twitch (less so twitch now).
Plus they also nerfed his items, so likely added some to him as they took more power away from his items.
Leetri1 votesIt was a super easy change to make, so why not do it? It took one guy maybe 30 minutes to do the change, compared to the several hours it could take to try figuring out how to buff X champion that's been bad for a while.
GigglesO3 votesCalm your tits. Just because you don't like ADC's doesn't mean Riot should leave him in the dumpster.
Whats that?
All at one point left to rot for multiple seasons.
Bârd1 votesFor a reason.
were complete and utter cancer if they were at all viable. The were all reworked for a reason.
is such an outdated design that he can't be viable without being overtuned.
was left alone for half a season. He was Olaf'd in 3.01 and Riot started trying to buff him back up with his rework in 3.12. This takes a while to brainstorm and test, much more than increasing Kog's damage by 1%.
GigglesO1 votesSo you are saying that adc's like kog aren't cancer when they are viable? He melts squishies, and tanks alike. He is very long ranged to the point where he doesn't even really kite.
At least all the melee champs above had to make it in range to touch you.
So you are also saying that there are no adc's that need to be over tuned to be viable? Come on now... we know you are just circle jerking the adc love.
Bârd1 votesKog is cancer when he's overtuned.
He's a champion that can be balanced. He's not inherently broken.
Rexxiee1 votesKog is cancer when he's overtuned.
He's a champion that can be balanced. He's not inherently broken.
Dont argue, those melee apologists around here will call kog, a not mobile champ with pretty much no cc or dashes to defend himself (his E is stupidly weak until its maxed, basically lvl 18), that has a downtime on his 700 range, "massively overpowered", but hey that is fundamentally overpowered because hes not a melee champion im right?
What ppl dont get is that kog is just supposed to do a lot of damage, since that is the only thing hes useful for, hes the defenition of glass cannon.
And historically, kog has always been great with champs that can proctect him, its his design and its honestly fine.
I dont even think his W should have been nerfed, they should have nerfed rageblade though that shit is broken on the champs that can use it. i mean just look at varus now (another thing that doesnt make sense, they nerfed kog and didnt nerf varus? Now hes broken).
Hey h0w r ya2 votescause 1 eprcent max HP will take him from god tier op to dumpstered lmao
He's been busted for an entire year, its about time they made him average
Ok sure but why2 votesThey should just work on the champs they DID leave in the dumpster as well
THE D1C2 votesI think this is actually riot trying to balance something that has people all out of wack...
It’s like a woman with a thermostat (reference:my wife and ex wife and every other woman I know don’t get your boxers in a tizzy fems)
Current temp: 68*
A woman with a thermostat goes: “Im cold” and sets the temp to 80*
Once the temp hits like 74-75*
A woman with a thermostat goes: “Im hot” and sets the temp to 60*
Right now: Riot is being manly and was like 73* was to hot and 68* is to cold let’s try 71*
and everyone is losing their fucking minds
T4underbolt2 votesHe was literally worse than god tier for 3 days and they immediately get a buff for him. You just can't see how biased riot is towards ADCs. Everything that concerns ADCs is handled asap unlike deserved nerfs. Log with that nerf finally has to scale before starting to go rampage and win rate you talk about is 20 minutes win rates which should be low on a hypercarry. Before he had 20 minutes winrate of 54 and was destroying people with one item only. there is no reason for rebuffing him.
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesRemember immediate targons nerf, fleetfootwork buff and other stuff. Those kind of things that concern ad carry players are solved in the next patch. Immediately. No resource for a patch is spend enough to fix ad carry complaints. That's why this game is so shit. Riot vision of team game= everyone plays around their quarterback superstar. Honestly they should just change role selection into: Top jungle, mid jungle, jungle jungle and bitch.
T4underbolt1 votesRiot pushes Lucian out of bot lane. He did that with graves, corki, Quinn, ezreal and Lucian. The buffs he got made him stronger in top lane. Riot only cares about true ADCs.
Spank the Fox1 votes52% WR is considered godtier now, alright then.
inb4 “high skill cap champ/late game champ”. Kog is thriving in a meta where you can devote resources to protecting the carry, covering his primary weakness.
NorthernRedStar6 votes[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tWJb4ElJ,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2018-02-14T11:50:08.656+0000)
52% WR is considered godtier now, alright then.
inb4 “high skill cap champ/late game champ”. Kog is thriving in a meta where you can devote resources to protecting the carry, covering his primary weakness.
Because Kog'maw's high skill 'click it' -gameplay pattern is so healthy for the game when he's above 50% win rate.
Spank the Fox1 votesYou literally did not address what I said, but okay, Boards doesn’t seem to care about relevancy.
Which is why Riot ignores you guys; you’re irrelevant
T4underbolt1 votesHe had 54% winrate with being picked every game along with varus Tristana. He is hyper carry who had such high win rate even in sub 25 minutes games which shouldn't happen ever since he should be doing best in late. Meanwhile he scaled to "late" with one item and was melting whole teams in early /mid game as well.
FCJAAAAGOOOO1 votes{quoted} Just because no one likes ADC's doesn't mean Riot should leave him in the dumpster.
Fixed
Sire Hippington1 votesi agree that putting a bit power back is not to bad, but what's disturbing to me and probably many others is that kog imidiatly recives that buff even though he's been in the spotlight for a long time, while others sit in the dumpster for a long time and get nothing. Lucian still has a worse winrate than kog, and he's been there prettymuch since preseason, and there are no buffs on PBE...
SteamBuster1 votesChamps like Lucian and Jhin have been left in the dumpster because there's something wrong with their kits, not just their numbers. Riot already did some trial and error with Kog, they lowered his %max health on his W. This made him too weak, so they buffed it a bit. They are currently in the process of fine tuning him to make him viable, but not broken. Lucian and Jhin are problems because of their kits. The way their kits work is that if they're good, they outshine every other ADC in the game. It's going to take Riot a long time to get their numbers to their sweet sweet spot. It's going to take about 1 or 2 more patches to get Kog to his.
Sohleks1 votesI will say this; Some people think all the common adcs should be nerfed or maybe at least their crit items (I agree actually)
So yeah Kog is underperforming after his nerf. Relative to other adcs. Those are pretty much the only other character type he is pitted against. So there's a chance he's actually where he should be.
The 2% nerf was really huge I thought so too before it hit live. But a 1% nerf instead is kinda weak don'tchya think. Remember, Kog was hella strong. Although they are actually changing wits end a little which is actually fantastic.
Remember when Riot tried to buff Ezreal before worlds and all that happened was he became a high tier jungler? That's because between crit buffs and ardent censor Ezreal would have been overpowered in every lane to compete against adcs.
A lot of people thought ardent censor was the sole issue. looooooooooooooooooooooool No the crit buffs broke them. Lane bully adc had already been nerfed oughta relevance bot lane. And then they make it so only crit build is the only adc build so they no longer enforce themselves at least partially. Now any adc that isn't on hit builds crit. And on hit is also bad because of its abuse of too free for the damage defense stats after riot makes defense up items even more important than ever. It's unbelievable they lowered resistances expecting the game to get healthier somehow and just let meta defense items become even more essential. Now the games hell if you're not ranged, a tank, or a fast dive champ with a strong lane phase.
Jet Sett1 votes"Leave him in the dumpster" people should be given time to actually get used to changes before it's decided the changes are too much or too little. Kog'Maw received immediate attention as if his immediate win ratio meant he was only THAT strong until he got buffed again, the same thing happened with Ornn and Ivern, we should probably hold off on buffing a champion the second they have any issues. Not to mention the average game length is much shorter now, it's expected for Kog'Maw to suffer in a meta like this UNLESS he's tuned up to being stronger in the mid game.
I won't say this is favoritism, but it definitely seems like a knee-jerk reaction.
Poske1 votesAnd then they are buffing wits end to put him at that sweet 54% spot
Look mate AD carry role as a whole is broken compared to other roles
Riot balancing kog maw to be balanced compared to other ad carries is a slap in a face to non ADC players
NodirjonSattarov1 votesThey gave Wits End 2 more magic damage lmao
Poske1 votesshshhshhsh silence
PaffWasTaken1 votesHow about nerfing every single ADCs since they are the problem? Kog isn't even bad right now, he is just worse than the other ADCs. Every marksmans are a serious threat to the game's balance right now, they should all get the Kog threatment and he shouldn't be brought back anywhere near to his precedent state.
