The Current State of Support Players

Macilento··42 votes·5,567 views

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140605015001/leagueoflegends/images/archive/3/34/20140607013320!Support_icon.jpg

Okay so... back at the start of season 4 we got a bunch of changes for the support role that was a quality of life change for us. We got trinkets, we got more gold, some canges to masteries etc.

Well, that was great, but it didn't really fix the core of the problem in my opinion.

The REAL problem is that still these days in season 5, if you play support you will encounter these anti-fun issues: • Despite the changes, supports are still playing with too much gold deficit. I mean it's frustrating to play the game when you have to be so much behind your teamates in term of items, try to imagine how more cool it would be if supports got a gold income high as his allies. He could also impact the game more. (i don't know how you can do this, but you HAVE TO do it Riot). In general it just feels bad to play with so much less economy.

• Supports are still under leveled for 85% of the games. This is another serious issue. I mean there is no reason for you to be so much behind the others. Not only that but if we consider how much roaming around the map a support can do this issue just become heavier and heavier. THis need a fix asap, as supports now roam much more then before, and that's all time with no experience. Yes there i a mastery to help you level up, but it's not optimal.

• More support itemization. There is not too much room for support items. Yeah many items give utility, but many supports share more or less the same build path every game. For example i really like the starting support items, would be cool if we could get more types of those.

• (This is less importent but oh well) More support champions: By that i don't mean to create more new champions that are only supp, but maybe fix some existing champion so that they can support just fine. Did you see the Nautilus transition from jungle to supp? There so many other champions that can be balanced to be support too, Sejuani, Orianna, Lissandra just to name a few.

In the end this is what i hope Riot fix for the next season, and would like to see if you guys share the same thought as me. A riot answer would be cool too :)

142 Comments

YOU BEEN WARNED22 votes
  • Giving supports gold would mean the majority of the roster would be playable as a support, while the idea is cool this is not how the game is balanced. For example Blitzcrank's Q makes or breaks the game, no gold required. Leona & Braum enter the game very tanky and don't require much gold, so forth. Some supports scale really well ( Soraka Sona ?) But I think it is a mistake to have scaling supports when they can't compete against the previously mentioned ones, because reliable gold income is not sufficient; and chances are if the support is snowballed then the whole team is and so that support won't reach lategame ( game already ends or surrender ).

  • Exp deficiency: I agree with this one, seeing how junglers have a similar issue; a potential fix is having ward kills grant a small amount of EXP to help combat the issue. The problem is that this issue promotes snowballing, as when one side wins they can sweep most of the wards for free exp.

  • I'm not sure what you're implying here, but it seems to be viability. Support itemization is the most diverse itemization in the game, as generally you want items that "help the team" which can be almost anything. From item 3071 item 3050 on support Ashe Gangplank to item 3091 item 3001 Thresh and many, many more. The problem with creating viable "cool support items" is that they'd have to be very cheap while extremely efficient, likely funneled towards support items as you said to avoid having other classes pick them up. More support item upgrades maybe ? It still really isn't a big issue as many support champions fit in more than 1 support item like Alistar item 3301 & item 3302.

  • IMO support Nautilus was always there, it just takes bravery to test given champions in botlane. When JarvanIV was pick/ban, he was also played as support for example. The amount of powerful, unusual supports is higher than you might think, let me give some examples.

Brand : See dark horses, his passive procs item 3303, all he really needs for damage is item 3136 + item 3020. Velkoz His Q mana costs allow this to be a thing. I hate playing against him tbh. Zyra Ridiculous damage, can easily transition into a secondary mage because of her waveclear. Heimerdinger Lane control, his turrets can potentially win you a 2v3 given you stall enough betweeen them. Gragas I see him played like Leona in terms of all in & tankiness. One of the few mobile douchebag supports. Ziggs See Zyra, except this guy has more tools at his disposal to generate gold such as his E interaction with item 3303 and his ult.

Not to mention authentic supports people don't play like Karma and Lulu.

Macilento2 votes

[{quoted}](name=YOU BEEN WARNED,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tWEude4i,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-04-16T12:15:15.584+0000)

  • Giving supports gold would mean the majority of the roster would be playable as a support, while the idea is cool this is not how the game is balanced. For example Blitzcrank's Q makes or breaks the game, no gold required. Leona & Braum enter the game very tanky and don't require much gold, so forth. Some supports scale really well ( Soraka Sona ?) But I think it is a mistake to have scaling supports when they can't compete against the previously mentioned ones, because reliable gold income is not sufficient; and chances are if the support is snowballed then the whole team is and so that support won't reach lategame ( game already ends or surrender ).

  • Exp deficiency: I agree with this one, seeing how junglers have a similar issue; a potential fix is having ward kills grant a small amount of EXP to help combat the issue. The problem is that this issue promotes snowballing, as when one side wins they can sweep most of the wards for free exp.

  • I'm not sure what you're implying here, but it seems to be viability. Support itemization is the most diverse itemization in the game, as generally you want items that "help the team" which can be almost anything. From item 3071 item 3050 on support Ashe Gangplank to item 3091 item 3001 Thresh and many, many more. The problem with creating viable "cool support items" is that they'd have to be very cheap while extremely efficient, likely funneled towards support items as you said to avoid having other classes pick them up. More support item upgrades maybe ? It still really isn't a big issue as many support champions fit in more than 1 support item like Alistar item 3301 & item 3302.

  • IMO support Nautilus was always there, it just takes bravery to test given champions in botlane. When JarvanIV was pick/ban, he was also played as support for example. The amount of powerful, unusual supports is higher than you might think, let me give some examples.

Brand : See dark horses, his passive procs item 3303, all he really needs for damage is item 3136 + item 3020. Velkoz His Q mana costs allow this to be a thing. I hate playing against him tbh. Zyra Ridiculous damage, can easily transition into a secondary mage because of her waveclear. Heimerdinger Lane control, his turrets can potentially win you a 2v3 given you stall enough betweeen them. Gragas I see him played like Leona in terms of all in & tankiness. One of the few mobile douchebag supports. Ziggs See Zyra, except this guy has more tools at his disposal to generate gold such as his E interaction with item 3303 and his ult.

Not to mention authentic supports people don't play like Karma and Lulu.

I agrree with you, but the number 1 point of the scaling supp vs the non scaling supp is a big deal, Riot need to fix it, couse well... toehrwise there is no choice

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Don't worry. From now on, all+ support utility will scale. Of course, we're going to nerf base values twice as hard across the board to compensate. ~ Riot

+Only move speed modifiers will actually scale; though everything will get nerfed.

CubedJustice3 votes

People play Lulu though. =c

MAZZ1M02 votes

Won a 4v5 with her a couple of days ago. Lulu+Urgod=Win. 24/7 shield and polymorph Nasus. Q AD's and ult Voli. Twas epic. Lulu's utility makes up for her lack of power. What I think she really needs is a longer AA range.

bluegolisano3 votes

So essentialy, give Pix a Battle Rifle from Halo 2? You crazy?

MAZZ1M01 votes

This isn't Halo and no. What kind of range are you thinking about? BR could hit anyone from the opposite side of the map. Not even Cait has range like that. So try to stay grounded for moment and not blow things out of proportion. Every time Lulu goes to AA (since her Q does garbage dmg and guzzles mana like a fourwheeler guzzles gas) the AA is the most reliable poke. The problem is, unlike other supports with a good ranged Q that can give you a kill, Lu's almost never does. Thresh Q, Blitz Q, Leo Q or E I don't remember which, Braum passive and Q, Nami Q, etc. Lulu gets bombarded every time you try to AA when they have a ranged supp and you can't rely on Q because she runs out of mana so fast. The E and W are far more important to save mana for. She definitely doesn't need Cait range, but a little extra would help her laning.

FantasySniper1 votes

That's done on purpose.

It'd be like giving Janna 550 range and saying everything's ok while they're blasting your faces off with attacks that can't be traded.

MAZZ1M01 votes

Fair point, but a tradeoff should be made on the Q. You can't poke with the damn thing. It does no dmg (I only use it for the slow) and it chunks your mana so fast you'd run out of it in about a minute. Thresh doesn't have to worry as much because he's tanky. Zyra doesn't have to worry as much because plants peel for her. Nami doesn't have to worry because "Oh, you wanna trade? Eat a Q." Sona's range is fairly big and can hurt if you're adc isn't game to kill her. Laning phase is one of those things you just make up as your go with Lu.

Honestly, I wouldn't even mind ignoring the poke if the E could cost less mana. It'd be a help if just the shield costed less. I miss the shield on minions too. That was fun to play with in-lane. I'm not looking for anything to make her op, just a quality of life buff.

GaleWinUnleashed4 votes

Lulu is freaking amazing. I don't care at all what kind of AP scaling she has, I'm in it for the massive piles of utility she has access to. Whimsy pretty much cancels out any single fed opponent, Wild Growth is basically a get-out-of-jail-free card, and AoE slows completely ruin enemy maneuvers.

CubedJustice6 votes

Also, sometimes, it tastes purple.

BluePolarizer1 votes

playing unusual champs as supports is healthy for the game.

In DOTA 2, about half the carries can also be played as support, sometimes a zero CS wards+boots only support (and most supports can be played as mid carries). That's because they both have utility and scale well with items, so depending on how the team comp goes, you can first pick them and the enemy has no idea whether you are picking them as carry or as support. See Naga Siren (one of the hardest carries) as 0 CS support solely for her utility, vs. Lion mid, for his incredible item scaling and lane bully capabilities despite usually being played support.

it opens up new strategies.

I mean, I'd love to see say, an Orianna pick, and not know whether its mid or support Orianna (outside of Bronze). The reason Orianna isn't a good support pick is because her spells are insanely mana intensive. On the other hand, I'm glad to see that when Vel'Koz/Lulu are picked, no one knows whether they're going mid or support.

DrathTurtle3141 votes

Or top in lulu's case.

xcailbar1 votes

I play Fiddle support Don't hurt meh

IcyPepper12 votes

Don't forget that your first 800 gold is sunk into sightstone or you risk being reported, and nobody else buys wards and finds excuses not to.

You won't find people saying it's their job to ward anymore, but when you point out that it's still enforced everybody quietly downvotes you without trying to argue beyond "it's a great gold efficient item!" and conveniently forgetting the whole "everyone else buying wards" part.

Stars Shaper9 votes

Well, I don't consider sightstone a waste. Since suports "should" be focused on utility that extra vision and hp doesn't sound terrifing to have. I agree that a small power added to it in terms of either regen or maybe an increase in vision range from your wards and on your character could be a nice thing.

IcyPepper5 votes

It's a nice item, but the item shouldn't be a necessity, but rather an option.

People report others for not building it, for crying out loud. It's a great item, I love it, but I'm not loving how others never ward and barely remember that they have a trinket. If I had a dollar for the number of times an adc could have survived a 1v1 by dropping their trinket they haven't used in 15 minutes in a bush, I'd have enough money for a few skins.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Unfortunally this community sucks and keep sucking even more because Riot didn't establish a real punishment regime for the toxic behavior but let it be handled by the same uncaring, toxic community and now is just some random filter for leavers and swearers.

Jefftiffy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tWEude4i,comment-id=0001000000010001,timestamp=2015-04-16T08:36:03.225+0000)

Unfortunally this community sucks and keep sucking even more because Riot didn't establish a real punishment regime for the toxic behavior but let it be handled by the same uncaring, toxic community and now is just some random filter for leavers and swearers.

Not right now tribunal isn't in force. It is automated by quantity received now even though the person can be 100% innocent and his teammates are just mad that they lost.

Xizagu4 votes

I think one of the best things to do with sightstone is to make it stack more. (like how sightstone becomes ruby sights stone with an extra ward pocket and more hp?) Give it like 2/3 more tiers of hp stone and 400 gp increase (or more) make it so at tier 3 and 5 it lets you place an extra ward out. This is what i thought of on the fly and would love feedback on it.

Now remember every tier is based on the formula of 1 Ruby crystal +400 gp **Sightstone (as is) Ruby sightstone (as is) Topaz Sightstone 600 hp, lets you place up to 4 stealth wards with 5 charges Emerald Sightstone 800 hp, lets you place up to 4 stealth wards with 5 charges. Using this item on an existing stealth ward consumes a charge and makes it a vision ward. ** Diamond Sightstone 1000 hp, lets you place up to 5 stealth wards with 6 charges. Using this item on an existing stealth ward consumes a charge and makes it into a vision ward.

That helps it keep viability all game. I'm not saying that vision isn't important all game, but I consistently find myself asking my team to upgrade their yellow trinkets and ward so i can sell my sightstone (replace with upgraded yellow if someone else has red trinket) and get an item that will help me get tankier or do more damage. Creating the extra tiers of upgrades helps create that tankiness that will scale late game. Yes, 1000 hp is a lot, but by that time you have spent 4000 gold on this item. It's CLEARLY not meant to be a rush to max tier item, but will better serve exceptionally long running games as far as supporting goes.

BaelorTheBold2 votes

This is such a good idea. Especially the last part about the vision wards. Whenever late game rolls around and you are starting to max out your item slots, it is such as hassle to decide whether or not to leave one spot open for vision wards. I think this idea could go really far.

CubedJustice1 votes

1000 is a bit overbearing, though. If it's 1000, people will start taking it top lane with cinderhulk.

50000000000000001 votes

That's great. Top laners will also ward.

Although, I get your point. item 3083 only gives 800 health, compared to proposed sightstone upgrade.

CubedJustice1 votes

I'm not saying top laners shouldn't ward, but they should have to sacrifice to do it. Warding isn't just a quality of life thing, it's an advantage, and if it comes at no price, then something's wrong.

Partholonian3 votes

{quoted}

make it so at tier 3 and 5 it lets you place an extra ward out.

No, please, no. This would make it mandatory to rush the upgrade.

The fact that the upgrade doesn't do much is a GOOD thing. It means the most gold starved role in the game gets to spend 800 gold on it and then STOP for a while and buy something else, something that actually works with their champion abilities.

It's CLEARLY not meant to be a rush to max tier item

Then don't give it an ability that everybody and her flaming teddy bear will demand their support build as soon as laning phase ends, if not sooner.

If they're going to add more tiers to anything, IMO, it should be trinkets. Make the 250g trinkets upgrade again at some late game level, which in turn unlocks an ultimate level trinket for 500g (yes, this is really low for a late game item; like the 250g upgrade, the point is to make it very attractive to get it and use it). Shorter cooldowns, more charge cap (including charge mechanics on red and blue), maybe longer cast ranges, I'm sure they can come up with something.

Ultimately, I'd like to see a game where sightstone and buyable wards aren't necessary anymore. Sacrificing one person's gold for everyone's vision seems to me like it leads to some of the anti-fun aspects of support as it exists in this game.

freeformline1 votes

I agree on not having attractive upgrades on the sightstone, especially if they have more health. Upgrading the combat stats of sightstone would increase the power of sightstone jungle builds and generally decrease the sacrifice made when buying it, which I think is regrettable, given the utility power of a sightstone/sweeper combination. I also would like to avoid having more health on sightstone and its upgrades, as I try to keep health low on my Soraka build.

I actually rather like the current state of vision control items, even if it is rare to see someone other than the support use them. As a support main, I enjoy the vision battle and like that the new upgraded yellow trinkets offer viable alternatives to a sightstone build strategy. I think the trinkets are ridiculously strong and really have no need for upgrades, but it is nice to be able to ward at nearly support levels when I am not actually my team's support and inevitably get frustrated by the lack of vision.

AbiwonKenabi1 votes

AS Star Shaper says, Supports are still utility focused, and SHOULD buy Sightstone. Now, I'm of the mind that depending on your jungler, THEY should get a Sightstone as well. And with the excellent yellow trinket upgrade, everyone not buying Sightstone should consider dropping a mere 250 gold on getting some nice vision at no cost of an item slot.

Vision control is a huge part of this game, and the support contributes to that the most (second to perhaps the jungler). They get Sightstone for on-demand Vision and gold efficiency, and they get red trinket to deny the other team vision (which is the other half of the vision game that many people forget about).

So in short, EVERYBODY should contribute to the vision game, but junglers and supports probably have the biggest responsibility in that regard. So no, that Sightstone is an important to a support's role--utility focused. The carries should help out here and there, but they're carries: their job is primarily to become a damage threat.

IcyPepper1 votes

That is true, but one ward every recall until you upgrade your trinket alongside the occasional pink is more than worth the 75-100 gold. Those things can save your life or get you a kill, which then profits.

But three wards on demand for an entire team just isn't enough. It's a team effort.

AbiwonKenabi1 votes

No no, don't get me wrong, I agree. It's important that EVERYONE buy wards.

But it's also important for the support to get Sightstone, too.

BluePolarizer1 votes

I'm not getting a sightstone on a jungler lol.

I need the gold for my assassin buiild. Can't trust laners to carry themselves.

JarvanIV item 3074 item 3071 item 3142 item 3707 item 3006item 3035

AbiwonKenabi1 votes

Pls

All a jungler needs is Cinderhulk then it's 1v1 time :P

DeusVult1 votes

Hi, I'm item 3361

I cost 250g

in the land of Gold V+, I get purchased by people and not everyone gets butthurt AF for the support not going item 2045

Stars Shaper5 votes

My vision of the supports is that they still either end as tanky things with utility or mages. In LoL there is not real place for "pure supports" because its gameplay is based on the ability to set one or more kills whenever there is a chance.

And this is the exact reason why an excellent concept as Bard with a pure supportive kit isn't having any impact on the game added to a really minimal win rate.

Macilento3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tWEude4i,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-16T07:56:51.539+0000)

My vision of the supports is that they still either end as tanky things with utility or mages. In LoL there is not real place for "pure supports" because its gameplay is based on the ability to set one or more kills whenever there is a chance.

And this is the exact reason why an excellent concept as Bard with a pure supportive kit isn't having any impact on the game added to a really minimal win rate.

Yes, that has to be fixed too, very true

Grouchy Poro2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tWEude4i,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-16T07:56:51.539+0000)

My vision of the supports is that they still either end as tanky things with utility or mages. In LoL there is not real place for "pure supports" because its gameplay is based on the ability to set one or more kills whenever there is a chance.

And this is the exact reason why an excellent concept as Bard with a pure supportive kit isn't having any impact on the game added to a really minimal win rate.

I feel like I should mention something I've learned while playing and to an extent becoming good at Bard. He is a force multiplier, not an addition. You have a good team? Bard will help you steamroll if he's confident. Your team unable to control objectives even though they've been warded like mad? Bard can't do much but collect chimes and place shrines. Simple as that really.

TripNichols4 votes

I agree with all of the above.

NorthernDruid3 votes

The biggest drawback of playing support, is that you more or less have 2 fewer slots than anyone else.

One for your gold item.

And one for Sightstone.

So you basically have three item slots to build with.

Åron3 votes

Am I the only one who enjoys support? Support is my main role, I main Aatrox and Blitzcrank support. I love playing unconventional supports like Ziggs or Aatrox. It's fun playing a support that actually does damage late game.

{quoted} The biggest drawback of playing support, is that you more or less have 2 fewer slots than anyone else.

And, you're supposed to buy pinks and greens, so that's basically 3.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

The biggest drawback of playing support, is that you more or less have 2 fewer slots than anyone else.

One for your gold item.

And one for Sightstone.

So you basically have three item slots to build with.

All the support items have interesting actives, though. FQC could maybe use a little something (range? area? missile speed?) but it's not like they're just there for gold; they also provide stats and do things that help your champion.

Sightstone, on the other hand, falls squarely into boring but effective. I wish they could buff trinkets enough to eliminate all vision items that take up regular slots (consumable and otherwise). Maybe in a couple more seasons...

NorthernDruid1 votes

Oh I like the support gold items, and I love the actives of FQC and Talisman (FotM not so much, it leaves something to be desired, maybe it's cast range, maybe it's shield strength, i dunno).

But they don't really fill in for one of your regular items the way the new jungler items do. Outside of the active it's an item with less stats than the Items you'd build instead of it normally.

Your gold item isn't part of your build, because it doesn't add anything a normal full item wouldn't grant more/better, except for the varying degrees of useful active.

Again, they're fine as they are, I love their implementation (though i think FotM shield could feel more impactful).

I still only have 3 slots to build whatever where everyone else has 5.

And in a way the gold items can never really replace a core item.

CoolKnightST3 votes

Actualy a good support has really good impact on the game right now:

  • Vision controle can secure the 1st & 2th dragon pretty easy
  • Now ad carries got buffed this was a straight buff to the supports as well

The main problems supports have right now is:

  • Poke supports still lack on good itemisation
  • item 3800 was the first real support item that doesn't give CDR. Whe need more items like this
  • Support is the only role that needs 2 slots (income item & sightstone)
  • Despite the trinkets, vision controle is still mainly the job of the support
  • A lot of support items still are underpowered or are put the shadow from other support items (item 3023 item 3056 item 3050)

Still fixing all of this still won't be easy and takes time:

  • The support income item was released in a really ballanced state. It was perfect and both 3 where used regularly. But it's only now whe see the limitations:
  • Talis is supposed to be build on roaming supports. However the passive just tells the opposite.
  • The items not always provide the needed raw stats.
  • Like said before it's not a all-in one item.
  • item 3136 still doesn't build into a support item
  • Whe still don't have a AR/AP item for supports (now they just all build item 3157)
  • Like said before, whe need support items without cdr that can be used for other roles as well.
Martyrofsand3 votes

No no no a million times no to all of this. Riot has already done enough damage to the support role without these changes. The ENTIRE alure of the support role was it was the 1 position that wasn't chained to items in order to be effective. Its effectiveness was tied to only two things, how well you used the utility in your kit and how well you could control map vision. Now instead of being a legitimate skill test at all times it has turned into a slave to scaling like all other roles. Its whichever support has their Mikaels, or their FoTM or whatever item advantage it happens to be wins the lane.

Bot lane went from a lane that could snowball 1 person but good play from the support could contain and reverse it to now both players just snowball and there is little hope to contain it because of how behind both player will be.

Season 4 support changes where toxic to the game and should be reversed not further expanded upon.

Delioth2 votes

I don't know what you're talking about.

Picture this: Graves-Shen vs. Draven-Lux. Draven gets three kills in the first 7 minutes on us. We proceed to come back and kill him 4 times in the next 4 minutes, and Lux once, as well as their jung and mid shortly afterwards.

You say supports can't contain and reverse the snowball?

Martyrofsand1 votes

1--Lux isn't a support 2--Shen isn't a support 3--If you come back against a 3 kill Draven you are playing bad players, and you are bad for dieing to them. 4--None of what you said had to do with supports, the state of supports, or really anything support related. It had to do with bad players who gave an advantage over coming bad players who don't know how to use said advantage.

The only thing you said that was accurate was that you don't know what I'm talking about, and that is because you spend a lot of your time in Howling Abyss and when you do step onto the rift it's been something like Sion jungle, or the random shen "support" against a pair of bronzies in the bot lane. If you actually played the support role both before and after you would realize just how stupid the changes have been and how much more snowbally the game has become because of them.

Ratbert1 votes

Lux isn't a support just because she's rare? Are you going to say morg can't mid? Anyone can support :( . For whatever reason this is true now.

The guy's trying to say that supports can contain snowballs, but then proceeds to say he snowballed with 7 consec kills.

Felvyne2 votes

One thing that annoyes me a lot is that a support like Sona, Lulu and Janna are actually supposed to build AP items. But the items oriented to support are meaningless as AP items and sometimes even subpar in utility in comparison to the tank items, so they end building tank items (ergo nerfed because they become able of work somehow fine or great with their not-supposed-to-be item build) because they cant afford building a Rabadon.

Krigjer1 votes

I run gold quints and runes, and always start 2 wards + whatever gold income item I want for that champion. (extra starting gold masteries). I am rarely behind my team in build, and often have thousands of excess at the end of the game, especially a longer game. That said, I would like to run tank runes for my tank supports. As it is, I have to decide between squishy early game and good gold income, or tanky laning phase and terrible income without assists. Gold IS still a problem, but I've found a workaround.

I DONT want to see more damage champions coming into support. They're frustrating to play against, I despise Annie as it is.

Macilento1 votes

{quoted}

I run gold quints and runes, and always start 2 wards + whatever gold income item I want for that champion. (extra starting gold masteries). I am rarely behind my team in build, and often have thousands of excess at the end of the game, especially a longer game. That said, I would like to run tank runes for my tank supports. As it is, I have to decide between squishy early game and good gold income, or tanky laning phase and terrible income without assists. Gold IS still a problem, but I've found a workaround.

I DONT want to see more damage champions coming into support. They're frustrating to play against, I despise Annie as it is.

Well, i tried run the mastery and the gold quint as you say, but i don't really see hat much of a difference. In season 3 gold quint were essential, now not so much.

And yess Annie should be definetly balanced if they want to support they support role

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

And yess Annie should be definetly balanced if they want to support they support role

Annie is a burst mage with a semi-spamable stun, resist steroid, and good base damage. It's perfectly acceptable if she wants to support in her current state.

As long as Supports don't take a solo lanes, all is good with the [game] world.

Macilento2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tWEude4i,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-04-16T20:09:21.948+0000)

Annie is a burst mage with a semi-spamable stun, resist steroid, and good base damage. It's perfectly acceptable if she wants to support in her current state.

As long as Supports don't take a solo lanes, all is good with the [game] world.

Man sorry, but an isntand stun with insane AA range and burst damage with you can't react too, is not a healthy champion, especially in support role

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