Annie should THROW Tibbers

Macilento·Mar 30, 2016·250 votes·6,853 views

Like in the damn cinematic. Tired of bears popping out of nowhere

153 Comments

The Bíg TicketMar 30, 201665 votes

Yes let's give the already weak and underplayed mobile champions with 500 dashes another way to get out of a reliable cc effect and make them even more immune to being punished for being out of position while every immobile champion who already suffers from the mobility creep still gets hit by it.

TallyZrgMar 30, 201617 votes

Amen. I wish people would stop trying to fix something that isn't broke.

KetiMar 30, 20167 votes

Annie is a top tier solo queue pick tho?

JalkanMar 30, 20167 votes

Annie still has Q

SoMNiaMar 30, 201634 votes

Flash Tibbers has 1315 range. What is your definition of "out of position"?

TarynMar 30, 201610 votes

I'm so glad that Flash has a 10 second cooldown allowing for it to always be up and thus always available for every teamfight and every situation that I would want to use it in.

Nvm.

FistOfSharkieshaMar 30, 201626 votes

Flash extending a champion's range of influence is true for every champion. Ultimates are meant to be strong and Annie has very clear weaknesses. Her E is little more than a stack for her passive and her range is brutally low for mage.

Nerfing her combo would trash her completely. Her biggest strength is being able to deal with squishy mobile champions with her targeted stun. Build the tiniest bit of MR and she is crap.

crippler38Mar 30, 20162 votes

she's not any more crap against MR than any other mage, that's hardly an annie issue.

by that I mean most mages don't have tools to deal with MR outside of items, annie isn't the only one with this issue, also void staff is greeeeeat man don't deny

FistOfSharkieshaMar 31, 20165 votes

I know but I'm saying that's the counterplay, it's the exact same for AD assassins/casters. You survive by not exploding. If you don't get some form of resistance then you're playing a lane where both of you can kill each other within a split second. It sucks but that's the simple truth of the matter.

SoMNiaMar 31, 20164 votes

It's a good thing Annie is getting some attention in the MYMU, then, isn't it? That way she can be given a real E, and have some tweaks so that taking a little of the edge off of an instant AoE stun/nuke that reaches as far as she can see won't destroy her. Annie is broken. Not unfair overall, just broken. This is obviously true when you know the answer to the question of "is Annie a threat?" is identical to "does she have Flash?", and the day she is not balanced around a 5 minute cooldown will be a good day.

FistOfSharkieshaMar 31, 20167 votes

It's no more toxic than Malzahar, Riven, Pantheon, Ekko, Fiora, Cho'gath, Rumble, Ryze, Zyra etc etc doing the exact same thing. Flash is an incredibly powerful, reliable spell. It's used 100% of the time in competitive play for a reason, it's not the fault of any of the champions I mentioned.

KillerKellMar 31, 20162 votes

Her Range?

She has the longest Basic Attack of any Mage.

So yeah, her Spell Range is going to be less to balance that out.

AbyssphereMar 31, 201613 votes

{quoted}

Her Range?

She has the longest Basic Attack of any Mage.

So yeah, her Spell Range is going to be less to balance that out.

A couple of questions:

Have you noticed that every ADC with long auto attack range also has long ability ranges?
Are you aware that mage auto attacks are completely irrelevant after 5 minutes?
Do you know that Annie has the same auto attack range as Zyra, who boasts spells with up to 1100 range?

How little attention do you have to pay to the game to think that long auto attack range means short ability range? How little do you have to know about AP characters to think that their auto attack range is taken into consideration when creating abilities not relevant to auto attacking?

MunchCrunchLunchMar 31, 20162 votes

annie has one of the highest winrates in challenger korea

The Bíg TicketMar 31, 20168 votes

in 20 played games?

MunchCrunchLunchMar 31, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bíg Ticket,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c4A9hYzA,comment-id=000700060000,timestamp=2016-03-31T00:52:48.848+0000)

in 20 played games?

shes top 12 winrate of all mids in the game. how is she bad?

The Bíg TicketMar 31, 20165 votes

Who ever said she is bad???? Perfectly fine champ.

Spaceman5pffMar 31, 20162 votes

I actually like this idea, as (currently) the only way to miss Tibbers is to simply put it in the wrong place (as it has no cast time). Annie would have to make choices between how she stuns people: Q: Stun one guy, but she can't miss it (best in lane)

But in teamfights you get 2 types of aoe stun to pick from: W: Instant cast to stun multiple people (sacrifice safety of range to get higher reliability) R: Delayed stun on multiple people but at the benefit of safer range.

Possibly, if tibbers became a delayed spell, the range could go up (maybe, who knows) This change would clearly define W as an "im getting jumped on" spell or the ideal spell to use for a flash-catch, while her R would become better used in ambushes over the side of a lane, or as follow-up cc.

Some questions arise, though: -Is tibbers thrown in a line, stopping at the first enemy champion hit, dealing aoe, like jinx ult? -Is tibbers lobbed towards a ground target, like Ziggs satchel? -Does tibbers fall out of the sky / appear slowly at a telegraphed ground location, like Xerath W?

I am personally drawn to the Lobbing idea, as it ties in with the fantasy of THROWING MY GODDAMN TEDDY BEAR AT YOU This idea of lobbing the stuffed bear could allow some VERY cool vfx. It also keeps closest to her current method of ulting, where units between her and the ground target do not interfere.

To recap, I don't want to just nerf annie. I just think that alot more interesting stuff can happen with her without her becoming noticeably more difficult, and there is no point to having 2 instant-aoe stuns if her stun charging mechanic USUALLY prohibits you from using them much faster than your W would cool down anyway.

SpaghettiTimeMar 30, 201664 votes

summoner 4 Volibear

Jack ºMar 31, 20166 votes

item 3068

Terra BoomaMar 30, 201617 votes

What's the point of her throwing Tibbers, honestly? I love playing Annie myself so I'll admit my bias, but if Riot adds a cast time to Annie R, the nerf everyone thinks will make her great, you know what will happen?

People will just start the combo with W instead. Sure it's a slight range nerf but it's nowhere near the be all end all people imagine. Flash W into everything instead of Flash Bear, but everyone is still dead.

LaerethMar 30, 20164 votes

Well I guess they'll ask for a cast time on W after that.

Urgonnalearn2dayMar 30, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Well I guess they'll ask for a cast time on W after that.

Anything that beats these kids is OP.

LaerethMar 30, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Anything that beats these kids is OP.

I mean, I can understand their point. Annie, specially when fed, can be very oppressive (aka don't get within ult range or you are dead).

She does have a very clear window of power (aka when her stun is up). If she blows her charge to farm minions you have a chance to engage and kill her before it gets back up.

If a complain could be made is that noticing if her stun is up or not can be hard sometimes. Maybe more clarity on that front, instead of a small white swirly thing make it more noticeable like a large fire aura or something. This could make a good compromise between both camps by helping her opponents notice her windows of power.

EvereldaMar 30, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I mean, I can understand their point. Annie, specially when fed, can be very oppressive (aka don't get within ult range or you are dead).

She does have a very clear window of power (aka when her stun is up). If she blows her charge to farm minions you have a chance to engage and kill her before it gets back up.

If a complain could be made is that noticing if her stun is up or not can be hard sometimes. Maybe more clarity on that front, instead of a small white swirly thing make it more noticeable like a large fire aura or something. This could make a good compromise between both camps by helping her opponents notice her windows of power.

you do know smart annies sit at 2-3 stacks we dont walk around all swirly for a reason

LaerethMar 31, 20163 votes

{quoted}

you do know smart annies sit at 2-3 stacks we dont walk around all swirly for a reason

Yes I do know that. Which was part of my point (clarity) if they (Rito) wish to compromise with those saying: "ANNIE IS OP. THOSE WHO SAY SHE ISN'T ARE LOLI LOVERS THAT NEED TO BURN."

For my part, would I like more clarity (aside from having to click on Annie to know the number of stacks) ? Sure why not. Is Annie OP because she can hide at 2-3 stacks ? Absolutely not, and she is mostly fine as is.

I'm kinda curious at what they'll do to increase interactions with Tibbers however.

Chaotic SageMar 30, 201615 votes

It's not gonna happen. The biggest delay it's going to get is .25 seconds and that's supposedly coming with the MYMU. Besides if she 'threw' it she would probably become unplayable at anything above bronze-silver.

DealthMar 30, 201611 votes

Or windwall will block it :S

Chaotic SageMar 30, 20164 votes

That would be another huge issue with it, yea. Good call there, also think I just finished replying to another of your comments elsewhere...odd coincidence.

Irelia BotMar 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chaotic Sage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c4A9hYzA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-03-30T18:48:51.981+0000)

It's not gonna happen. The biggest delay it's going to get is .25 seconds and that's supposedly coming with the MYMU. Besides if she 'threw' it she would probably become unplayable at anything above bronze-silver.

Gragus has seen on and off play in LCS with is ult not being instant.

It is just a manner of having enough in Annie's kit elsewhere to make her within reason to play but not in a condition where it is Flash + tibbers has no real counter play to it besides "stay away from her"

Chaotic SageMar 31, 20166 votes

Annie's ult wouldn't be instant either if it was 2x the size with a significantly longer range with a huge utility boost that's not reliant on her passive in any way.

hi im mintyMar 30, 201612 votes

" Tired of bears popping out of nowhere"

Agreed. 100-0 in 1 sec with no way to get out of this.

The EcdysiastMar 30, 201611 votes

Do you REALLY want her main strength to be countered by Yasuo?

KnoyleMar 30, 20162 votes

He still doesn't have enough counterpicks imo.

Ruin LanceMar 30, 20163 votes

yeah man, it's not like nearly every tank or fighter in the game completely destroys him.

TroyTheUnconquerMar 31, 20162 votes

Who the hell brings a tank or fighter mid lane? it completely ruins your team comp unless you have a AP jungler

The EcdysiastMar 31, 20163 votes

He beats tanks easily. Dominik's and you're golden when you ult.

KnoyleMar 31, 20163 votes

How many tank/fighters do you see mid?

IcyPepperMar 31, 20162 votes

Well, if counterpicks is the issue here, why not just counterpick Yasuo with a tank/fighter? o.O

Yes, I know it's not meta currently, but sometimes breaking the meta to counter the meta is a thing. People have countered assassins in the mid lane with bruisers before, so it's not unheard of.

If people were more flexible with their picks, some champions would be less oppressive. We see carries, both AP and AD, go top lane, so why not shake up mid lane every once in awhile and diversify team compositions?

Not picking counterpicks because they're never seen in that lane before is kind of controllable helplessness. And lane swaps are a common strategy as well, as long as your team comp is diverse enough.

KnoyleMar 31, 20161 votes

Because It won't work all the time and It can't work if you can't counterpick Yasuo. As in if your team's mid chooses before the other team's you can be sending someone who is absolute crap in mid against anyone but Yasuo.

You can take Rammus to Yasuo and make him starve but if you take rammus mid before they choose a mid what if it's someone like Lux Malzahar AurelionSol Ahri etc. People who will destroy him early because he has no reliable gap closer. His powerball starts slow, is jipped by minions and most likely will not reach anything that can kite unless its at around full speed which will still get pissed on by slows.

My point is counterpicking Yasuo with a tank/fighter may only serve to actually delay yasuo. There are still 2 other lanes and a jungler to think about and if that counterpick can't benefit your team out of laning phase you are in for it rough.

IcyPepperMar 31, 20162 votes

You can take Rammus to Yasuo and make him starve but if you take rammus mid before they choose a mid what if it's someone like

I said counterpick, not first pick ;~;

If you keep a balanced team comp, you should have two champions that could either mid or top. Then choose your lanes based on where the Yasuo is going.

But yes, it's not always perfect. It's a niche counterpick strategy, it's not meta for a reason.

The EcdysiastMar 31, 20163 votes

Yeah. Annie is one of them. Why remove one?

MrRazzleDazzleMar 30, 20168 votes

Annie is an entry level champion for 450 ip. Not every basic champ in this game needs to be reworked with tons of skill shots.

Ruin LanceMar 30, 20169 votes

annie has ZERO skill shots unless you consider something with the radius of a malphite ult a "skill shot"

MysticDreams12Mar 31, 20165 votes

No. Even Meddler has already said no to any type of delay or change to her Tibbers (besides what Reav3 or others have said for her update changes, which they want to shift more power into him, such as him being able to do more stuff than just be a stun bot, etc. But that doesn't include having a delay).

"We don't think anyone likes Annie flash ulting onto them and bursting them down. We do think LoL needs some champions that provide reliable CC though as a both a balancing lever against some types of champion and as one of the ways to make short range damage focused kits functional (other options including untargetability, inherent tankiness, massive temporary defense etc). As a result we believe it's worth accepting the limited counterplay you have once Annie's in range of you, or when she has Flash up, frustrating though that can be."

Even though he's talking about the Flash + Tibbers combo, he still insinuates it. Tibbers does not need to be thrown. Anyone can see that if they did that, it would take time for him to finally land, so basically it's a delay on his arrival.

Tibbers is fine. I don't know why you have so many upvotes but really, he doesn't need changed in my opinion.

Old Man TeetoMar 31, 20165 votes

Okay.

Area increased by 50%

Tibbers size, health, damage, armor, attack speed, and magic resist increased by 60%.

While Tibbers is active, he absorbs 40% of all damage done to Annie.

morris1Mar 31, 20162 votes

That last one's really cool.

KETSU0Mar 31, 20162 votes

then her e resist should be cut in half cuz that'll make her too tanky for her dmg

Miku Lv99Mar 30, 20164 votes

Yeah this would be pretty nice, provided it'd mean she'd get other buffs in order to make her better. But I hope tibbers doesn't just disappear if he just barely touches a windwall when thrown.