Boards›Gameplay

I HATE the health stat on sightstone!!!

Lwnt··6 votes·1,049 views

I hate the health on it because it benefits tanky supports more compare to Ap utility supports. Soraka gets actually punished when building sightstone due to her heal. Most people in the game stick with thisitem 2049 and not spend an extra 800g to get thisitem 2045. I wish they make an Ap sightstone but noooooo we cant have that because mid champion will abuse it. Yet its okay for lee sin to use it and give him bonus health on top of that.

I say if your not going to make sightstone diverse (with different stat) you should remove the health stat all together and give it passives that benefits the wards that are produce by sightstone. In other words make it only a vision item with no other stat benefit. I say the item should have two passives where the passive on the blue sightstone is weak passive. Then you pay 800g to get a stronger passive.

Some passive ideas: (If you like this passive idea and you have an idea of a passive write it in the board and I will type it here)

  1. Make the wards produce by this item last 30 seconds longer.
  2. Give it increase vision for the first 15 seconds (I think this was in the utility tree before)
  3. For the first 30 seconds true sight or pink ward cannot detect sightstone's ward.

29 Comments

Social Justice 13 votes

There is not a single support that does not want health ever.

Lwnt1 votes

If that the case why does most game in league no one wants to pay extra 800g to get the item 2045 even though every single support wants health.

Zielmann2 votes

I wish people would quit with the whole 'Soraka is punished for buying HP!' mindset. Technically, yes, a heal costs her more when she has more HP, but she's still at more HP afterwards than she otherwise would have been. Please, don't fall into that trap.

I'm kinda split on how I feel about Sightstone, though. On the one hand, it's often the one outlet for the non-tank supports to pick up a little extra survivability. On the other hand, I do think it would be cool to have another option with the same ward-pocket active to it. Of course, set it up so the two don't stack with one another. Maybe not AP, but it could be an upgrade from like, forbidden idol or something, to offer an early option for mana regen.

Lwnt2 votes

What that doesnt prove how she not punished for buying HP. Yes she gets more HP but she looses more when she heals. Most of the time she has less than 50% health during team fights so having the extra HP doesnt benefit her.

Don't like the mana regen option I feel like the item should only focus on vision.

Zielmann2 votes

Sightstone isn't only focused on vision. I don't see a problem with sightstone by itself, so just make an alternative with the same vision option. Mana regen was a suggestion, as things like Nami and Sona may choose to prioritize mana regen over raw HP. It could be something else, too.

Also, basic math concepts prove why it doesn't 'punish' soraka for buying more HP. People focus solely on the cost of casting her heal, not her total HP after doing so. Heal costs 10% of her max HP. For simplicity, let's say she has 1000 HP without ruby sightstone, 1400 HP with. 10% of 1000 is 100. 10% of 1400 is 140. So yes, casting the heal costs more HP. No arguing that. But what about how much she has left?

1000-100 = 900 HP 1400-140 = 1260 HP

How about a second heal? Another 100/140 HP. 900-100 = 800 HP 1260-140 = 1120 HP

Third heal? 800-100 = 700 HP 1120-140 = 980 HP

I could go on, but I think you see where this is going.

Now, tell me, which Soraka has more survivability after the same number of heals cast, all else being equal aside from the health boost from sightstone?

Not trying to say it's a godlike item on her. It is a bit of an awkward item for her given her mechanics. She doesn't quite benefit from it as much as other champions will due to this. But she's clearly not worse off for having it.

balbraaksel3 votes

Health doesn't matter to her that much, % health does. If she heals 12% for hitting a Starcall on an enemy without Ruby Sightstone, and heals 10% for hitting Starcall on an enemy with Ruby Sightstone, it actually reduces how often she can heal allies because it's harder to heal back up to full health.

And use her heal >10 times and the 400 health on it actually became damage.

Zielmann2 votes

That should have been obvious that it was a very simplistic example. Fact is, as that example is laid out, you cannot cast it more than 10 times because she'd be down to 0 HP (10 x 10% max HP = 100% max HP spent). It's basically set up as consecutive heals with zero cooldown. I took regen and starcall healing out of the picture for the sake of simplicity. And I can justify that by the fact that we're assuming the HP regen in each situation is identical, and the amount healed back from starcall is identical, as it's a flat amount.

Her starcall heal is a flat amount (depending on percent of total HP she has). To the simplified scenario above, she's basically going from 100% to 90% to 80% etc. max HP in both situations, so the heal she'll get will be the same either way. But a higher number plus a flat value will always be higher than a lower number plus a flat value.

Again, I'm in agreement that it's not a particularly optimal item for her. But she's still in no way being 'punished' for having it.

balbraaksel3 votes

How high or low her health is is something that nobody should care about if he's playing Soraka support. Soraka's %health and %health gained from hitting Starcall determines everything, not her normal health values. Hitting Starcall is a flat value but converted to a percentage it becomes less the more health she has, reducing her ability to healing allies. And if you used her heal more than 9 times you've self harmed yourself for 100% of the ruby sightstone health on it, which's possible because Soraka does heal back up with hitting her Starcall.

If you still wish to discuss further with flat health values I recommend that you play her twice as support first. Once without health healing allies. Once with triple RoA + SE that heals allies.

Zielmann1 votes

{quoted}

And if you used her heal more than 9 times you've self harmed yourself for 100% of the ruby sightstone health on it, which's possible because Soraka does heal back up with hitting her Starcall.

I still don't think you get the math here. At any given time while her HP > 0, Soraka with a ruby sightstone will have more HP than Soraka without, all else equal. End of story. It doesn't actually matter how many times she casts the heal after buying it. The example was consecutive heals with no regen, to keep things simple.

Saying that, after 10 heals, you've hurt yourself for the total health you gained from the sightstone is partially true. The 40 extra HP per heal times 10 heals does get you to the 400HP the sightstone gave. But the item doesn't fall off of you at that point, to where you can never have that 400 HP again. When you regen back up, heal up, or go back to fountain, it'll still be there.

And to repeat myself to nearly the point of absurdity, this isn't saying it's an optimal item for her. People just shouldn't be scared of it, either, as they seem to be. HP regen is still unquestionably more valuable.

balbraaksel3 votes

{quoted}

I still don't think you get the math here. At any given time while her HP > 0, Soraka with a ruby sightstone will have more HP than Soraka without, all else equal. End of story. It doesn't actually matter how many times she casts the heal after buying it. The example was consecutive heals with no regen, to keep things simple.

You don't get what I'm trying to say. I'm talking purely about percent maximum health while you're talking about flat health, while that isn't how she works. Her flat health doesn't determine how frequently she can heal allies, her percent maximum health does.

You don't need to repeat it I get it that you think the item isn't optimal, I just disagree to it and consider it to be horrible on her.

Fashion Mage2 votes

I'm glad someone understands why health isn't useful for Soraka. I keep seeing people wanting to build tons of health on her, and it annoys me to no end.

balbraaksel4 votes

{quoted}

I wish people would quit with the whole 'Soraka is punished for buying HP!' mindset. Technically, yes, a heal costs her more when she has more HP, but she's still at more HP afterwards than she otherwise would have been. Please, don't fall into that trap.

Buying health on her doesn't change the percentage of the costs to heal others but lowers the percentage she'd heal from hitting a Starcall. Having a Ruby Sightstone lowers the heal on hitting Starcall by roughly 15% if you look at the %health it'd heal. (so %health healed * 0,85 for summoner 13 ) Does anyone care about her health? No because her %health is what determines how often she can heal allies with that many champions deal %health damage. So buying health on her lowers how often she can use her heal. Also if there's a teamfight and all goes well and you hit a lot of the opponents with Starcall you can easily heal >9 times, heal >10 times and the 400 health became damage. xD

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

Uhh are you making this thread just for the sake of Soraka only?? What about other squishy support champions? Especially tank champs like Braum Leona Taric ? Don't they deserve some extra health too?

Removing its HP stats will only promote more stubborn AP support champs to ignore support/ward builds and just go Ap glass cannon like some mid-rejecters.

Lwnt2 votes

I dont want them to remove health but it isnt fair that the only stat option for sightstone is health. They should make at least other optional stats like Ap. You know that the ap utiltiy support their skills scale with Ap. In other words their utility gets stronger with Ap. But they wont make an Ap sightstone because mid champs will abuse it.

Support/ward build does not always equal tanky build. Building tanky item on Braum, leona and taric benefits more to them compare to Janna, lulu, soraka, Nami and Sona. First off those three champs have scaling with resistance or health or with both. Another those three are naturally tanky meaning their base resistance and health are high compare to the ap utility support. When having high resistance getting extra health benefits you more.

So what I am trying to say here sightstone benefits tanky support more and compare to ap utility supports. This is unfair that why I say make more diverse stats on sightstone or remove the helth stat all together and make it a vision item with passive that benefits vision.

TheFrozenIsles1 votes

I sort of agree with this. I wish they make the sightstone the main gold support item. Then let you build it up from there.

Lwnt1 votes

If that the case we loose the actives of the gold support items.

TheFrozenIsles1 votes

Then we can put the actives on other items that any one can use. I dont now about any one else but i would buy FotM on any tank or fighter if it was not a support item.That shield can come in hand.

UberAffe1 votes

actually it is 800 to upgrade

personally I vote for removing it, this was my solution

Lwnt1 votes

2nd solution for your thread wont happen because right now riot feels like their to much vision. If they did that their will be like 15 wards at all time.

1st solution if they do that then their will be no wards at all. Most game I played I am the only one warding its so anoying. Literally their only 3 wards at all time.

UberAffe1 votes

Well the first one is meant to be new items in addition to what we have/replacing it.

And why do you say they don't like vision?

Lwnt1 votes

I read a riot post where a riot member believe that they have to much vision right now. So if that the case they will never ugrade trinket to make more than one ward.

UberAffe1 votes

I don't suppose you remember where that post is?

Also I hope that is just that rioters opinion not the view for all of riot.

Zahz1 votes

sightstone needs a rework in general. i kinda feel like it should be treated like machete with multiple build paths

Lwnt1 votes

What would be some of the build paths be?

balbraaksel1 votes

I never really cared until they reworked Soraka. It's ridiculous she can't go anywhere else but support but if she goes support she's forced to build an item with a stat which actually is really bad on her.

Miku Lv991 votes

Soraka is punished for building HP. Consider this.

Say you have 1000 HP and 20 HP5. And say a heal costs 100 HP. Now say you heal 20 times over 500 seconds. You're still at full HP.

Now say you have 2000 HP and 20 HP5. So now your heals cost 200 HP. What if you heal 20 times over 500 seconds? You're at 1 HP since each one cost so much now.

Building health only can't punish Soraka if healing and regenerations effects don't exist, but they do. Especially considering that she can heal herself, and yes I know, not with her astral infusion, but she still can.

I would really like an alternative to sightstone. It's dumb that every support is forced to buy health. There should at least be some other option.

AnOstrichWithPMS1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/eIwltMAq-would-it-be-a-good-idea-if-instead-of-a-rubysightstone-supports-could-get hmm

DoFr1 votes

upgrading it gives a pink ward after couple of wards placed, sorta like Corki's R.

Fashion Mage1 votes

I'd love an AP sightstone, CDR sightstone, or mana regen sightstone. I've never liked the HP on it, but the item as a whole is too necessary to avoid.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Lwnt

Has this happen to you as a support?
Gameplay93 comments
86
votes
Why no compensation for captain enhancement for boots?
Gameplay30 comments
73
votes
Junglers are making less money than support players?????????????????
Gameplay87 comments
31
votes
Self mitigated damage stat was a huge let down for me RIOT
Gameplay3 comments
8
votes
An Idea to help lower the level gap between the support player and his/her teammates
Gameplay9 comments
7
votes
The viegar stun is so hard to control that it is making me cry
Gameplay0 comments
6
votes