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Veigar Reforged: The Good, The Bad, and the Short

veigarbage can·3/22/2019, 8:51:47 PM·8 votes·7,807 views

Hello everyone! I'm Nicuri, a 1.5 million mastery points Veigar one-trick. But I'm not alone: I'm joined by Iron Four Veigar (850k mastery over all accounts) And TheBossVeigar (3.7 million mastery, highest mastery in the world!) And we're all very passionate about Veigar as a champion. Our problem was this: It feels like Veigar stomps lower ELOs and is extremely frustrating to play against, but we also feel like in higher ELOs there's not many times he can be played. He's either really good or really bad. So what we want to work on is eliminating the frustration and making him less of a dangerous pick due to his polarized style.

We have some proposed changes that could help him survive the game during laning phase, but also some changes to make him less frustrating to fight. Without further ado, here's our ideas!

Passive: Revert the passive back to Equilibrium.

One of Veigar's biggest issues is mana, and rightfully so: His kit would be very strong with the current iteration of his passive and high sustain, where you can get quick hits on your laner for AP. After the Doran's Ring changes though, it crippled his sustain early. This change will give Veigar more freedom between trying to play aggressive to kill the laner with unreliable, high-cost spells or farm with them. This being said, stacking will still exist in our next point:

Baleful Strike: Put the stacking back exclusively on his Q last-hits and takedowns.

Veigar's ability to stack is extremely powerful if let to sit, but having it exclusively on Q and takedowns means freezing the lane is a more obvious counterplay strategy against him, but with the passive revert making it more manageable to farm with from higher-skilled Veigar players. The ability to scale is still there, just less frustrating due to Veigar no longer being able to just fight you for stacks.

Dark Matter: Remove the CDR from stacks.

No, seriously. There's a good reason that'll come into play later. The CDR from stacks on paper sounded really strong, but it already being an unreliable ability, it doesn't really mean too much. Most of the time, that extra CDR just went to more zoning than actually fighting anyways. Not much needs to be said about this ability. Other than the CDR from stacks, it's a perfectly fine ability.

The problem child, Event Horizon: Static cooldown (Perhaps 18 seconds?), But reduced delay, down to instant, with either stacks or R rank.

Oh, Event Horizon. You're an absolute mess. You destroy low ELOs, but god are you useless in higher. Starting with the elephant in the room: "Lower delay? Are you guys insane?!" Not really. The number we were discussing was around 175 stacks, or rank 3 R. Remember, this is also considering the removal of the current iteration of his passive. Considering the average stacks at 30 minutes for Veigar was 150 before Mid-Season Magic in S6, it would be late in the game by the time Veigar's E becomes instant. A static cooldown to go with it would make for more obvious chances when a good time to engage in on Veigar is available. These changes, along with the CDR from stacks on W, will make Dark Matter less of a threat. It won't really be spammable due to the removal of the CDR. We talked about making it reduced by E rank, but we quickly realized that it would make support Veigar insanely strong.

Primordial Burst: It's fine.

Veigar's ultimate is a fine ability, kind of a boring one, but a fine ability. Nothing to really fix here. The largest changes, if any, would be increasing the range by 50 to match his E and/or adding an indicator for HP, like one at 75%, one at 50%, and one at 33% health.

So where does this put Veigar? In our eyes, these proposed changes can put Veigar in a state of a more well-rounded pick that's designed to survive and scale into mid-late game, while also being less frustrating to deal with before he hits that power fantasy you all know and hate.

A lot of these changes are reverts to what Riot's done to him for a long time, but to be honest, Veigar's age is definitely showing. What was good for him then isn't good for him now. And hopefully these changes can solve his biggest issues of destroying lower ELOs but getting destroyed in higher.

If you've made it this far, thank you, and if you have any better change ideas, drop them in the comments! We're all ears.

40 Comments

Tobykachu3/22/2019, 9:05:36 PM4 votes

So basically you want to revert Veigar? :P

lil koda3/23/2019, 6:41:57 AM2 votes

fuck you and your instant aoe undodgable stun, no ty

taleofsonata3/23/2019, 4:06:37 PM2 votes

I don't see you asking Dopa on his stream, Dopa is literally the best Veigar player in the whole world. He said that he really loves playing Veigar and that people underestimate his potential.

Utility Veigar3/22/2019, 10:54:07 PM2 votes

I don't really care about these changes. As long as veigar has his stun, I'm happy.

PVPmaster LOL3/24/2019, 12:29:23 AM1 votes

Wouldn't this nerf support Veigar tho? I kinda like him there even if he doesn't belong there.

Meep Man3/24/2019, 1:40:06 AM1 votes

This all feels like a huge nerf to me unless you buffed the number of stacks that Veigar got from his Q last hits. Also maybe Im just not as experienced with Veigar, but mana issues are pretty rare for me.

Moody P3/22/2019, 9:12:53 PM1 votes

His R should be reverted to scaling off of enemy AP. It gave him a noticeable niche as an anti carry pick who punished the 800-1k AP mages for their glass cannon builds.

Without that niche Veigar relies too heavily on just being high tuned himself to be worth picking. Classic burst mages like him and Annie are obsolete in season 9 so adding an extra caveat to give him value is much needed.

Quepha3/22/2019, 11:16:27 PM1 votes

I pretty much disagree with you on every point :/ Getting stacks from harass makes him so much more fun and healthy. Nasus still has to resort only to cs'ing for stacks and I think he's a miserable excuse for a champion because of it. His stun is hugely valuable at all ranks, anytime someone says it's bad because of the delay they just sound crazy to me and an instant AoE stun is total cancer. Spamming Dark Matter in the late game is super fun and gives him the late game waveclear that makes him an actual late game champion.

It sounds like you want an extremely overpowered version of Veigar, and once Riot balances him based on the features you ask for he seems like he'd be really bland.

Rıots Bad Client3/22/2019, 11:24:59 PM1 votes

I would like this. P-Same Slight changes New: After every 25 stacks veigar gets an effect that lasts 30 Veigar restores 3flat mana and 2% of maximum mana per second. (rough numbers all around)

Q-Same

w-same but slight changes Deals less damage, but the more ap veigar has compared to the enemy the more it damage it deals. (keeping the stack CD reduction) New effect: Veigar can now cast W global distance as long as its in the location of his "Event Horizon"

E- Decrease the cast range(from 700 to 650?) cool down from 18 / 17 / 16 / 15 / 14 to a flat 16. Change the stun duration from 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 Stun to 2 Its sort of an instant cast however, it only start from the wall closest to veigar. and Closes off completely forming a circle the last gap closing is furthest away from veigar. The more points in the quicker it closes off. (easier peel, harder to catch)

Closing off completely takes 1.25/1.0/0.75/0.5/0.25 (the box lasts 3.5 from 3(but starts the moment he casts it)

R- same(I would nerf this slightly)