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As a Vlad main, I'm so glad they're removing Will of the Ancients

Over Innsmouth··100 votes·6,827 views

If a Champion has so much synergy with a specific stat that it forces that Champion to be nerfed into oblivion, only to be able to barely function by continuously abusing their synergy with the item, something's wrong.

Granted, if they didnt mention they'd be rebalancing Vlad around the lack of WotA, I'd be less giddy.

But as it stands, he will be. I don't expect him to have the _same _ level of sustain without the item as he would have with it, but still a respectable amount, and at least more than he currently would without it at least. I'm looking forward to being able to choose what my first item is, depending on the match-up, instead of being forced to rush Revolver so my sustain means something. I'm looking forward to having a choice in what my full build will be, rather than five-items-and-WotA. Yes, I am looking forward to whatever bullshit mechanic they give Vlad for this update - tremendously - but this is something that has bogged him down for years and it's finally going away.

Fuck Youitem 3152

131 Comments

Blood Magicks64 votes

Finally, after half a decade of an incredibly toxic relationship, Vladimir was able to overcome his addiction to item 3152 with the help of intensive therapy by the psychiatrist R. Iot and pursue healthy personal growth and happiness. May he have better luck in the future.

SkyBlade7915 votes

It's like if the treatment for a drug addict is to just make the drug stop existing XD

GaleWinUnleashed2 votes

If only that were feasible in the real world...

CubedJustice9 votes

Oddly enough, that was the tactic for a while.

GaleWinUnleashed3 votes

I suppose Prohibition didn't really work, did it. There's gotta be a solution...

ViashinoWizard1 votes

I mean, if we could actually do that, it'd probably work.

ZephyrDrake8 votes

and now everyone will just hover towards item 3146 instead since the way things are going AP items are going to be a complete joke and that leaves me with no hope whatsoever that the reworks are even going to be remotely close to being good

Over Innsmouth5 votes

The only problem is wasted stats and awful build path. Vlad doesnt get any of what he wants until he finishes the item.

Tis a nice day3 votes

item 3146 costs a lot more gold and by the time it's finished the laning phase will almost be over and bursty teamfights start happening.

Shrek Luigi6 votes

I never really bought it as Vlad. The sustain is nice, but I've always found it more useful to get some early magic-penetration in to make those trades hurt a lot more. I found myself grabbing item 3151 or item 3001 first, more often than not, in conventional matchups.

Over Innsmouth2 votes

How does that work for you? Last time I tried it I couldn't get used to how little sustain I had and it was unbearable for me.

Shrek Luigi6 votes

Works alright. Vlad is pretty underwhelming in general right now, but once reaches lv7--for that fourth point in Q--he can win trades against a pretty sizeable pool of toplaners. Just play conservatively in the early game, farm up and keep the lane to your side to give the enemy toplaner/jungle less room to take you down.

FFF15 votes

In other words, Sky's "Play like a Bitch" strategy.

MilfHuntUnitXJ92 votes

True. As a top lane main, when I see other fellow top lane mains play like a bitch it makes me sad. Toplane is supposed to be about the brawl not the "wait for your homies cuz you can't solve shit yourself" playstyle

This is one of the main reasons why ADC top picks are true cancer. If they can't win, they have their jg win for them.

Pÿrö2 votes

I used to LOVE rushing WotA on Vlad, but as he said, I found myself winning trades more often by grabbing item 3151 or item 3001 (occasionally rushing item 3157 ) first. After a while WotA became a situational item against tanky champs that i needed to out-live.

YumaS2Astral3 votes

{quoted}

I used to LOVE rushing WOTA on Vlad, but as he said, I found myself winning trades more often by grabbing item 3151 or item 3001 (occasionally rushing item 3157 ) first. After a while WOTA became a situational item against tanky champs that i needed to out-live.

I've tried doing this. While the extra damage is nice, I simply can't live without the sustain from WotA.

Plus, there is a stat on WotA that is overlooked but necessary for Vlad: cooldown reduction. With this item, Ionian Boots, and 10% CDR runes, I often reach the maximum cooldown reduction and then I am free to build other items.

Oriole2 votes

This will no longer be an issue as well. they're adding CDR to everything, except the things that they aren't.

RoodToob1 votes

[slayer-jinx-catface] logic of course

cuddlykitten43 votes

My favorite mage item in the game :( I will probably never take a caster in ARAM again.

PaladinNO3 votes

Excuse me, but what kind of sustain will mages now have in ARAM? Will the new default survival item be Warmog?

Syndra (example) with item 3083

item 3174 , item 3020 , item 3089 , item 3135 , item 3083 , item 3157 ...Yes, I see it now. The logic was just made clear.

The point underneath all this dripping sarcasm is very simple: Tencent, STOP trying to balance the entire game based off the situation on a single map!!

You need to take the other maps...sorry, forgot about the removal of the 'Scar); other map (TT is clearly already dead and buried anyway) into consideration when performing balancing.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/RPhsJbtZ-discussion-state-of-the-season?comment=001e

Excerpt:

3v3 ranked hasn't been recognized at all(!) this past season. The Rito API on every 3rd party site to my knowledge does not recognize a 3v3 rank as a valid rating.

ARAM needs to keep WOTA - it's the single sustain item that mages got over there! And we need Zephyr back there too, and Twin Shadows as well (no, Frost Queen's Claim does NOT make up for it, trust me on this), and now, with WOTA gone too, it will be hell for mages, if the roll of the dice is against us. And we can't exactly go back to the altar to heal up either.

But why the hell not!? Mark already ruined ARAM anyway; one ability which, if timed corrently, cancels out any ability (specified as ultimate here)? bg wp, Tencent.

Yes, I'm a bit frantic about this, as it doesn't seem neither Twisted Treeline nor the Howling Abyss is taken into consideration when making any changes this season. And it seemingly isn't possible to get a message across to the Reds with influence over this matter either.

CithriaC2 votes

This might be better in its own discussion.

PaladinNO1 votes

Okay, speaking of Vlad then (thought talking about WOTA in general was accepted - especially as I see something about Mordekaiser further up)...how come he seemingly only have one build? WOTA (now redundant), Spirit Visage, CDR boots, Rylai, Zhonya and Void Staff/Liandry.

Thought the whole point was for every champion to have multiple build options, at least that's what Tencent have made it clear is their desire.

Does Vlad happen to be on the rework list? Because a single-build situation is major requirement to be in need of a rework.

It Hertz When IP2 votes

He was one of the first to be confirmed as a list member, I think.

Axis the Dragon1 votes

Mark was bar none the best thing to happen to ARAM for tanks, though, who really needed some love, because outside of specific outliers (Trundle, Mundo & Sion come to mind - I don't count Cho in this because he's built full AP anyway), tanks were more of a liability than an asset

Besides, AP mages were the reigning kings and queens of aram for the entirety of its existence even after Mark was added, and weren't dethroned even after the marksman itemization changes. Mind you, strong AD Champions like Varus were still Top 10 (I'd even argue Top 5) in ARAM regardless of items.

Spellvamp wasn't even what made mages broken in ARAM anyway, it was the range of their poke. Ziggs in his heyday, Lux, AP Ez, and Nid if you're accurate, have always been S-tier

PaladinNO1 votes

It wasn't my intention to steer this towards ARAM-only, but rather keep insisting balancing CANNOT be done with only one map in mind. Speaking of WOTA now.

As a player who holds close to 6000 ARAM matches to my name, I think I know what I'm talking about when I say Mark didn't make ARAM better.

I've been steam-rolling these poke - aka squishy - mages as Irelia lategame on more occasions than I care to remember. And as for tanks (Leona, Braum, Nautilus etc.)...yes, it is a dissatisfying job, but that was all part of the agreement when I chose to queue up. And with a good team, and decent communication, Mark is utterly unnecessary.

I don't use Mark at all, on principle, no matter what champion I play.

Again, I didn't want to make this ARAM-only discussion, but merely point out what will happen if Tencent doesn't take every map into consideration when making game changes.

Axis the Dragon1 votes

Well Riot did mention from the outset that ARAM was gonna be a for-fun map, and balance wouldn't be focused on that (outside of egregious outliers) since, at its core, ARAM was just a custom game mode that people fucked around with on SR (and previously, on DotA maps).

Mark isn't absolutely necessary but Champions like Galio, Fiddlesticks and Annie love it very, very much.

Gratz on almost 6k, though. I'm still trying to reach 1k xD (I have about 600 atm, step by step bois)

PaladinNO1 votes

Wrote a long reply - about half a page - misclicked on "Cancel"... Where is my auto-save feature, or cancel warning-message? A properly coded forum surely has some actual userfriendliness.

GAAAH!!!!!

sigh TL;DR version: I use WOTA on lots of champions in ARAM; Tencent shouldn't delete it just because it affects or bores the usability of a single champion in classic. While I will accept SR is LoL's main map, its' not the only one.

Tencent should acknowledge this, or delete every other map.

Yeah, that was written in frustration.

Axis the Dragon1 votes

Yeah I hate when that happens too =/

Don't get me wrong, fam, I loved using WotA on a lot of Champions (Cass, Swain and Karthus in particular were pretty lol-sy) but things needed to change. Spellvamp items are just getting revamped (heheh) along with the AP Update. They're pretty intrinsically linked since Vlad himself was getting reworked, and Spellvamp was more or less tuned to his fringe case (if Spellvamp was strong, Vlad was broken, so they had to heavily tone down SV, which made Vlad fine/underpowered. Fixing Vlad's reliance on SV would take nothing short of a rework, which is what's coming anyway).

Maybe they should've kept WotA. Who knows. But remember that there are essentially 3 different SV items coming - Gunblade, Rocket, and Volley - and while they don't stack, they all fit more or less well on Vlad (and other Champions that may enjoy SV) for CC/Mobility/Poke, respectively, so maybe one of them will suit your liking.

Malicious Metal3 votes

Good riddance. RIP Spellvamp, long live Omnivamp!Mordekaiser item 3146

Over Innsmouth2 votes

Too much iron in your blood.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/f7f41f11356a15321a772379f6b43738/tumblr_inline_n7r4quzxRp1r6370f.gif

Malicious Metal2 votes

Yo! I take at least three Iron supplements daily, there's no thing as TOO MUCH metal! :|

Over Innsmouth2 votes

So...Metallica or Metal-licker?

Elikain3 votes

Oh wow. To this point, i had to be the one to defend Riot's perspective and the removal of WotA and finally having Vlad be free from his Spell Vamp shackles. Finally a Vlad main that comes out. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ImmortalBloodCY2 votes

Mordekaiser and Akali use it too before they change to item 3146

Ackelope5 votes

mordekaiser and akali have been building gunblade very frequently already, though. people don't build wota on akali, actually, gunblade has always been pretty staple on her though

ImmortalBloodCY1 votes

I personally use WOTA early on mordekaiser and focus on getting my items then i exchange it to Gunblade.

Its a bad idea to rush item 3146 Early-mid game because you will not have the rest of your items.

Ackelope1 votes

it's okay to rush on certain champions, akali generally, because she scales with both ad and ap, and her passive gives her even more from building both, so the item gives her a tremendous amount of power for just one item. Overall it is a pretty high damage item by itself, tbh, but it doesn't provide enough of any one stat to be useful on anyone other than hybrid champions, if you buy it early.

ImmortalBloodCY1 votes

Well Mordekaiser is a hybrid champion too and benefits alot more on his Q from AD than AP while the rest of his kit benefit more from AP. So item 3146 is great on him but rushing it is a mistake.

That's why I always build item 3152 early on the start getting HP/Armor/Magic defense items(at least 2 defense items) then exchange item 3152 for item 3146 and either pick item 3022 or item 3116 (Or both)

My most common build is item 3009 item 3146 item 3065 item 3143 oritem 3742 anditem 3022 item 3116 , it gives a strong mix of tankyness and power.

Altought I sometimes swap item 3022 with item 3142

So now that item 3152 is getting axed I need to think how I will manage to survive long enough to get my items online fast so that I wont die easily. Because the added Spellvamp and AP from item 3152 together with the 10% CDR is a big plus to Mordekaiser early on.

For vlad that wont be much of a problem because he will be reworked a bit since they are removing item 3152(I think they will add passive Spell Vamp on his kit) only because of him(they did say they are removing it because Vlad is always rushing it) but thats only because Vlad needed it in order to be able to survive top lane easily(well only early on, mid-game he becomes very strong).

I dont think they understood that Mordekaiser players rush it too. Well.. we will see how it will work when they show us so for now I can only watch :(.

Ackelope1 votes

If you don't mind explaining, you stated that rushing gunblade on him is bad, but may I ask why? I'm not an avid morde player, don't understand how to properly build him as of now.

Maximum Morde2 votes

Because it doesn't give you any of the things you need to win heads up fights. 0 tankiness, low sticking power, medicore damage. And it's build path sucks hard. The entire time you are trying to build the AD side of it, if you can't jump right from revolver to gunblade you are gonna be miserable. All it does is let you sustain in lane.

Much better to rush Rylais. Rylais gives you hp for your shield, slow effect for sticking on people or sometimes escaping ganks, and a decent damage boost. It's build path is also leagues better than gunblade.

Yes, I know Morde scales on AD, but gunblade rush is low damage cause you are too slow to make use of his AD with only that item. Either rush a speed item or rush Rylais.

Lady Hammerlock2 votes

You'd be surprised even without the rework yet and the removal of WOTA from the PBE vladimir does just fine with Spirit visage since it gives 25% increased healing(on the MYMU state item 3065 )

ForeverLaxx1 votes

Interestingly, I posited a Vlad redesign that actually made Spell Vamp items weaker or less attractive without removing the item from other mages that might want the effect. It drew from all my experience playing Vlad from when I used to main him back during his initial release. I suppose it was just easier for Riot to delete the item, unfortunately, since I would have really liked for it to stick around.

Over Innsmouth2 votes

Wasn't he like...ludicrously overpowered on release?

I only joined a little bit after Vel'Koz release, so I've only heard tales of release Vlad's bullshit.

Anyway, Spell Vamp seems a bit of a dead stat in my view - regardless of how it's affected Vlad's balance. While I do wish mages had a way to restore health like Lifesteal provides for AD champions, Spell Vamp isnt the way. Something like the new Catalyst (health increments on mana spend) seems better.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

As a non Vlad main, I hate that they're removing WoTa and spellvamp in general just because your main abuses it instead of tuning Vlad (And ninja skank) around its existence so that the stat can be viable on other champs.

Over Innsmouth2 votes

Tuning Vlad around his abuse of Spell Vamp is part of why his early game is atrocious. It also effectively locks him out of an item slot.

Furthermore, spell vamp isnt a tremendously efficient stat on other mages for quite a few reasons:

  • Burst mages have no use for sustain, as they drop their damage all at once with the intent to end a fight in a few seconds.
  • AoE mages suffer from a reduced gains (roughly 5%) of healing.
  • Mages generally want other items, such as MagPen, Mana/ManaRegen, raw damage or items with secondary effects like Luden's, Rylai's or Zhonyas. It really sucks that Vlad doesnt have room for all the things a juggermage needs to be effective lategame.

I do sympathize with you. I don't like content being straight up removed from the game, but in fairness, I've only ever seen WotA built on Vlad, pre-rework Mordekaiser and the odd Fiddlesticks.

SpellVamp will still be in the game via runes and masteries, and Hextech Gunblade will still have the Omnivamp that WotA was recently retuned to use (it's currently healing for 15% of all damage dealt before resistances rather than 20% spell vamp).

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

The reason no one builds spellvamp now is because Riot intentionally and deliberately tuned the stat around the existence of Vlad (And ninja skank) so that it's ONLY good on him. I wouldn't be so upset about them removing the stat from items if they weren't doing this JUST before the Vlad rework which is when they SAID they would relook at spellvamp and tune it better but instead they've decided to just throw the baby out with the bathwater before the baby is even born yet.

IronwallJackson1 votes

WotA and its few users are tuned around each other, though Vlad is the most dependant on the item. Spellvamp has the underlying issue of being difficult to tune due to how most mages work in the first place, and when you add drain tanks into the mix you get an item that has to be overturned to be appealing and champions that feel terrible until you buy said item.

The blame doesn't lie with akali and Vlad alone; spellvamp itself is problematic

Solidair31 votes

I used wota on Syndra. Will be sad to see it go.

She's going to have improvements to her passive tho so that's fine.

I hope they tell us all of the Mage changes today

Over Innsmouth1 votes

Should be tomorrow, that's usually when new PBE cycle comes out.

Solidair32 votes

That is true, but meddler said the change list article might go up today, and I am hoping!

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