Hey Riot, do to Zed what you did to Fizz.

Over Innsmouth··173 votes·9,201 views

Remember when you loaded more damage onto Fizz's ult + the damage amp at the cost of his basic abilities with the idea that Fizz would have to land ults for full assassination potential?

You should do that to Zed.

I don't like successfully dodging his ult only to be killed by a stray shuriken from one of his shadows. It doesnt feel fair. It doesnt feel fair that - because of the damage he has on Q and E he can - as an assassin - adopt a mage playstyle and just farm/waveclear into oblivion.

244 Comments

TyroneWatermelon70 votes

Fizz still one shots champs with his basic abilities

Dragnamous13 votes

{quoted}

Fizz still one shots champs with his basic abilities

Gonna throw a little math your way. The champion with the lowest base health in the game at level 18 is Gnar, at 1645. Gnar also has a base MR of 30, which equates to a 23% magic damage reduction and a base armor of 65.5 which is a 40% reduction to physical damage. Let's cover Fizz's q first. It does damage equal to 100% AD plus 70 (+35% AP) magic damage while applying on hit effects. So, let's say Fizz has 500 AP. His base AD is 109 at lv 18, so: 65 (109 - 40%) + 189 (245 [70 + 35% AP] - 23%) = 254. Assuming Fizz didn't purchase Lich Bane or use his passive, it would only do a measly 254 damage. This is not very realistic however, as Fizz will always use his w before q, and any Fizz player worth his salt will purchase Lich Bane, which will add 75% base AD + 50% AP as magic damage. 332 (82 + 250) - 23% = 256. The total damage with Lich bane is 510. And now for the fun part: his passive. It deals 60 (+45% AP) (+8% of the target's missing health). With the active enabled, it does an additional 30 (+30% AP). The total being 500 (320 [60 + 225 + 35] + 180 [30 + 150]) - 23% = 385 damage over 3 seconds. THE TOTAL DAMAGE OF FIZZ'S Q WITH 500 AP, LICH BANE, AND HIS W ACTIVE IS 895 DAMAGE OVER 3 SECONDS. Now, let's say Fizz has 1000 AP. He would still only do 1510 total damage, not enough to one shot Gnar, with the lowest base HP in the game. With the same build, his E would do only 497 damage at 500 AP. Even at 1000 AP it would only do 785 damage.

In conclusion! It is absolutely impossible for Fizz to one shot you with any of his abilities, even with 1000 AP. [slayer-jinx-catface]

Wimbledofy40 votes

when people say 1 shot they mean 1 rotation of abilities.

Dragnamous7 votes

{quoted}

when people say 1 shot they mean 1 rotation of abilities.

If that's the case, then yes he can one shot you at level 18 with a full rotation and 500 AP. I would, however, argue that he SHOULD be blowing up squishies at that point. It's what assassins do.

The Taco Kat2 votes

It's just the ult slow that I despise, if we exclude his troll pole. The slow just makes it feel impossible to get away from an [already] extremely mobile champion.

Strawberrycocoa15 votes

Then people need to clarify that, because one shot means "one ability useage" to most people. One hit, one bullet, one shot, not four.

OneSmoothDude18 votes

Normally I'd agree with you. I'm all about being pedantic.

But the thing is, in the context of League, true one-shots are extremely rare. It would be a bit silly for people to say "He one-shot me using all his abilities once" 99% of the time while saving the much more succinct "He one-shot me" for the piddly 1%.

I mean how many champs can we realistically expect to ever literally one-shot somebody? Veigar is the only one I can think of.

RespectPlus15 votes

Draven Draven Draven

2K dmg crit is real

Spaceman5pff3 votes

Can confirm. I have 100-0 someone with a single auto.

It was a vayne. I cried tears of joy.

bill842 votes

Veigar rare you say? Edit: Sorry I posted this before I read the last two lines.

Crokinole Ace2 votes

Old poppy full damage.

Many giggles.

Darkwind2 votes

Syndra can definitely do it. Cait can (crit headshot when fed). Might be a handful of others that can do it when exceptionally fed- some other ADCs, Anivia (Q), Heimerdinger (R-W), others with a particularly high base+scaling ult- something like Ziggs.

Azure Dancer5 votes

Your math went wrong at his q. You reduced physical damage part of it when it's actually just a scaling. Actual damage his q does is magic and therefore not reduced by armor at all.

Father Cthulhu2 votes

It isn't just a scaling. If you ever play fizz and q somebody, it'll do both physical and magic damage.

Rook Loux2 votes

Well this was an extreme waste of your time

Dragnamous7 votes

{quoted}

Well this was an extreme waste of your time

Oh please, as if my time is worth anything.

The Ecdysiast29 votes

Dodging his targeted ult

JavelinJoe3 votes

item 3157 and except for now item 3140

The Ecdysiast24 votes

Still not a dodge. It takes no skill to land and expensive items to prevent.

TurquoiseYoshi3 votes

1300 gold is expensive? Hexdrinker costs the same and people say that item is easy to get.

Syrai14 votes

For a mage, we have to spend about 3k. Is that not expensive?

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

Is QSS disabled for mages?

Anu3isII7 votes

Is QSS as good as a Hexdrinker, that also builds into Maw of Malmortius?

Edit: If you didn't read the pbe patch notes, Riot plans on nerfing QSS. They will make it remove ONLY CC, so QSS will not help anyone anymore to fight Zed...

Young Babine2 votes

I guess adc with zhonya will be the way to go ahha

TheWeatherWax2 votes

The armor on it is pretty useless (you have to "stack it" but it's only 45 at the max).. But if you want to be a golden adc while the enemy comes for you (and not able to deal damage) have fun with that.. (I'd love a better set of items or having Zed be a more fair champ to play against)

Sum Wun Speshal21 votes

No, but you can happily stay in base and afk after spending 1300 gold and a slot for 30MR against a Zed mid lane that will negate the damage of one ability.

Might as well rush Guardian Angel.

Alüe6 votes

don't forget he probably got a item 3155 , because hey! we like to slap him for a wet noodle...

The Ecdysiast2 votes

The issue here is: the most unhealthy aspect of the game is that mechanical skill can't beat targeted overpowered abilities; items have to.

That's not counter-play, that's counter-build.

MunchCrunchLunch14 votes

lmao. I played fizz like. 3-4 times literally. and was able to one shot squishies with just W+Q+E. sometimes. I don't even need the E I just need a cpl autos

fizz . with lichbane. has as much power in his basic abilities as zed if not more

alfavhunter6 votes

Base damage of his basic abilities reduced by 50%

his ult now also increases his damage done to the target by 75% along with the execute effect and reveals his target to him and his allies (this will nerf his early game but become a buff to damage output to full item zed (on ult target) due to scaling on his abilities not being nerfed

This puts zed where assassins should be, relatively weak early game and deadly late game, while still having to risk close encounters to get his top damage off (due to non ulted targets taking noticeably less damage)

This also nerfs his wave clear early and late game, but in a near full damage build he will have more damage output

The reveal effect is to help him be more reliable in tracking down his target because he loses aoe damage

Please note a turning point they could use for him is that if his abilities strike his assassination target they get the bonus damage to all targets struck, this would return some of his team fight aoe, but still require more risky plays

Edit: to clarify this does a few things

  1. It reduces zed damage outside of ult but buffs damage from ult if his build is focused on damage (no tank builds)
  2. It focuses his damage as single target for his ult
  3. It nerfs his wave clear
  4. It gives a more reasonable counter play through CCing him while he is ulting a target (right as his untargetable drops) as his in ulted target damage is more manageable through lower base damage, which forces him to try and scale off items instead of just out poking then going in because his poke will be weaker along with his push through weaker wave clear
GayFluffyUnicorn10 votes

Assassins are NOT meant to be "deadly late game". They aren't hypercarries. They shine in midgame. They need to close out games fast otherwise they fall off.

Father Cthulhu2 votes

Where's the rules that restrict assassins to midgame? Or that they can't be hypercarries? I'd argue that people like Katarina, Akali, or Kha'Zix are easily classified as teamfight hypercarry assassins. From what I understand, at its core, an assassin's job is to kill priority targets, like high dps carries. If any assassin does his job right, he waits for the enemy team to use most of the cc so they can't peel him off the carry, goes in and kills the person, and (depending on which assassin you are) either get out or snowball the fight.

Grinding4 votes

you're right an assassin is suppose to be able to kill squishies easy, but by class standards they are high risk high reward, zed puts himself in little to no danger to accomplish his role, if zed doesn't want to fight you, he doesn't have to; does he lose farm for it?? nope, a safe assassin just doesn't make any sense, zed doesn't sacrifice anything or put himself at risk, does he lose damage for being so safe and mobile ? nope.

Father Cthulhu2 votes

Ok? You're talking about things that are completely different to the point I just brought up. I'm trying to argue that assassins CAN be hypercarries and that they don't have to be restricted to midgame. I wasn't even talking about zed...

alfavhunter4 votes

Assassins are meant to be deadly to thier priority target

Zed ult is SINGLE target, it's not he will be taking out an entire team through DPS like an adc, he should have good burst for one target

Father Cthulhu6 votes

I don't like successfully dodging his ult only to be killed by a stray shuriken from one of his shadows.

If you dodged his ult (I'm assuming through zhonya's or qss), then there is no possible way that 1 shuriken can kill you unless you're a squishy with 0 bonus armor at 1/4th hp or lower.

CithriaC2 votes

I think he means dodging the final damage pop at the end of the ult.

Amarajah4 votes

Don't see how current zed is unfair, but with the QSS change he will be for ADCs that aren't Graves, Sivir, or Vayne who have mechanics with a chance at surviving his all-in ultimate, ESPECIALLY since duskblade exists

Bladerunner77774 votes

Fizz item 3025 item 3068 item 3124 item 1306 lolwhat

Baunjo2 votes

I would agree completely with this thread if it were not for the fact that item 3157 and item 3140 exist. You buy either of those items with this change and zed does absolutely nothing against you because you just negate his Ult completely. Does that seem like a good idea?

And yes, I understand the same thing can be done to fizz, but honestly fizz can hurt a whole lot more people with his ult than zed does with his.

Over Innsmouth16 votes

QSS won't do it after next patch and Zhonya's as an item will be worse than it is now (AP and AR nerfed, Active CD increased). Yeah it's cheaper, but you will literally only buy it as anti-Zed/Talon.

I'm not saying there isnt itemization counterplay, it's just bad.

Sum Wun Speshal3 votes

Honestly, at this point I would prefer the new Hourglass than the one we have right now. People compare the old old Hourglass which gave 120AP for the same price but what we have right now is even more terrible IMO.

3500 gold. Jesus Christ. I would probably always go Rylai's instead in scenarios I would have picked Hourglass. Cheaper, same damage, incredibly useful with the passive and it makes you beefier to compensate for the lack of invulnerability from Hourglass.

(edit: In the last sentence I said that you could "sustain the Zed rotation with the health from Rylai's". Which of course is false. Zed still forces you to rush Hourglass or at least Armguard early on.)

YumaS2Astral2 votes

Yeah, people complain about the new Hourglass being bad but it at least is much better than the current Hourglass.

Meeks0116 votes

Is Riot balancing around making Zed more powerful? What the fuck is going on here?!?

Over Innsmouth5 votes

I don't want to assume there's bias, but at this point it's pretty hard to deny.

When Mages/Tanks/Most ADCs get nerfed, they get the dick; hard.

When Assassins get nerfed, they get compensation buffs or just end up stronger than before. Really feels that way to me.

YumaS2Astral5 votes

{quoted}

When Assassins get nerfed, they get compensation buffs or just end up stronger than before. Really feels that way to me.

Unless their name is Kha'Zix

devdev4632 votes

nobody likes the bug, he gives me nightmares everytime he's meta..... "shudders"

I GANK LANES1 votes

except fizz's build has CDR in it where after the itemization changes zed doesn't his ult is 2 minutes until level 11 which is mid game. his q and e don't even do high damage because he can't spam them due to him being energy based.

ZombeezyJeezy6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nerf my Q,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NyaWXWZz,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2016-04-26T21:39:26.357+0000)

except fizz's build has CDR in it where after the itemization changes zed doesn't his ult is 2 minutes until level 11 which is mid game. his q and e don't even do high damage because he can't spam them due to him being energy based.

"He can't spam them due to energy and AD itemization is bad"

You best be trolling kid, because otherwise you need serious brain surgery.

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