We have three 20% CDR/AP items

Rebonack··3 votes·573 views

One of them is super-niche and of the other two, only one of them is ever worth building because they have too much overlap.

Nashor's should have a blasting wand added to its build and its passive made more attractive to a wider range of Mages to cement it as the GO-TO offensive CDR item. item 1026 item 3101 item 3108

As for Morello's and Athene's, they're both giving AP/CDR/MP5. Way too much overlap right there. I would suggest sticking Idol into Athene's build and increasing its MP5 substantially. While we're at it, Chalice gets its build altered to a Fairy Champ and an Amplifying Tome. Massive mana regen combined with more easily shrugging off harass leads to bland farm lanes and I don't think anyone really wants to watch that. Removing defense from Athene's allows its purpose to be better defined. item 3108 item 3028 item 3114

Then? Replace Idol in Morello's with Kindlegem and toss in a Giant's Belt. Replace the Grievous Wounds passive with a defensive passive of some kind. Small damage shield on spell-cast, maybe? A sort of anti-Spellblade. This would be widely useful on tanky Mages as well as Utility Tanks without being terribly attractive to AD Fighters on account of the ability power. item 3108 item 1011 item 3067

Offensive item, mana sustain item, defensive item. Clear niche for each of them. Riot plz.

6 Comments

Kitten of Evil5 votes

Nashor's is fine the way it is. It's great on some champions (Kayle Teemo ), viable on others ( KogMaw Varus Azir ), and it's literally the only decent AP/AS item unless you want to go full triforce, which many champions do not.

Why not just add more items, rather than changing current ones?

Rebonack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=srUfXgm0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-03T08:40:34.337+0000)

Why not just add more items, rather than changing current ones?

Because having items that are widely useful and balanced for the whole cast can help prevent abusive edge-cases before they pop up.

Nashor's is already a purely offensive AP/CDR item. If you make another purely offensive AP/CDR item that's more generally useful (see: Deathfire) it's just going to side-line it. Sticking another passive on Nashor's that deals some extra magic damage OnSpell with a six second per-champion cooldown would allow it to be useful to a wider array of champions without being abusive on spammy abilities and DoT effects.

And as for Morello's and Athene's, one of them is going to be better. That's really all there is to it. When two items provide very similar stats people are going to buy the one that's more slot-efficient. Athene's used to fit that description, so everyone got it. Now Morello's fits the bill. This is super-simple stuff.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

When two items provide very similar stats people are going to buy the one that's more slot-efficient

No argument there. Now, which other item provides similar stats to 50% AS, 60 AP, 20% CDR and magic damage on-hit? The closest I could think of, actually, is item 3091 ... a largely inferior (but stacking) on-hit effect, also 50% AS, but nothing useful if you scale on AP.

If you make another purely offensive AP/CDR item that's more generally useful (see: Deathfire) it's just going to side-line it.

Um, no it didn't? I would never recommend DFG over Nashor's on several of those champions listed above. The two items are different. They offer different offensive stats. They fill different niches.

Morello's and Athene's are comparable because they have one stat people care about: mana regen. The rest of each item is, quite frankly, incidental. Nashor's isn't comparable to any other item, because for those champs who love it, it has EVERYTHING. It has AS, AP, and CDR.

COWmanLord1 votes

I think they already have their own niche. Nashors is for people who want both attack speed and ap, Athene's is for people who want the mana sustain/cdr but also want some defensive stats as well, and Morello's is for people who want the same mana sustain/cdr, but for the game their in they either don't need the mr or just want the extra ap.

Aerothal1 votes

those items are needed for different situations.

They have some similar stats but are completely different in other ways. What do you want? a "one fits all" item? I build item 3165 when i think i can handle/evade the magic damage or my opponent. if i know i can not, i build item 3174 . Those are two completely different scenarios, Two completely different games. Stop wanting to streamline. There is no "one build item fits all situations" path

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

those items are needed for different situations.

They have some similar stats but are completely different in other ways. What do you want? a "one fits all" item? I build item 3165 when i think i can handle/evade the magic damage or my opponent. if i know i can not, i build item 3174 . Those are two completely different scenarios, Two completely different games. Stop wanting to streamline. There is no "one build item fits all situations" path

This was 'sort of' true before Athene's got nerf-crushed. Now you're gimping yourself if you're building it over Morello's most of the time. Don't believe me?

Lux win rate with Morello's: 57.6% With Athene's: 53.8% Orianna with Morello's: 53% With Athene's: 48.4% Azir with Morello's: 54.3% With Athene's: 49.4%

Should I keep going? Because this is consistent across every single champion I've bothered to check so far.

Before Athene's got nerf-crushed this metric was reversed. Athene's was the superior build-choice in nearly all situations. All this topic is calling for is that Riot make fewer trap-options rather than more of them.

More from Gameplay

More by Rebonack