How about we swap Twitch's stealth with Eve's?

Rebonack·Oct 18, 2017·173 votes·4,469 views

So Twitch gets a 900 detect range and drops out of stealth if he takes damage from a random caster minion.

Eve gets 700 detect range and shimmers when hit.

Solve two problems at once.

70 Comments

PopcornBunniOct 18, 201761 votes

Have Eve's stealth radius shrink at levels 11 and 16 please. At that point the most she can do is go 1-for-1 with an enemy carry. At least let her sneak around and get to them by that time.

YuGiHoOct 18, 20178 votes

i think that fair, she goes form not having stealth to having a large dect range at 6 but late game it would be small to allow her to flank backline eaiser

DeadUnbornOct 18, 20171 votes

this is actually a good idea I think

Infinite SaughtOct 19, 20173 votes

Riot aint gonna give AP Assassins a late game ~~versus Marksman~~ at all. Your suggestion is meaningful but it will never happen.

Variks the LoyalOct 18, 201711 votes

Eve's stealth doesn't drop from minion damage on the PBE right now, IIRC. Don't quote me but I remember it being said somewhere.

RebonackOct 18, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Variks the Loyal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PvW6Auhx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-18T19:01:59.991+0000)

Eve's stealth doesn't drop from minion damage on the PBE right now, IIRC. Don't quote me but I remember it being said somewhere.

Does she still get knocked out by champ damage?

Variks the LoyalOct 18, 20175 votes

I do believe so. I imagine the intent there is because her stealth is permanent, as opposed to an activated ability.

Sire HippingtonOct 18, 201714 votes

that's probably cause they have the health regen effect tied to it which would be quit absurd if it wasn't disabled by champ damage...still, makes eve's stealth suck pretty hard in comparision, though i don't think that twich's stealth is a healthy standart to have.

RebonackOct 18, 201721 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PvW6Auhx,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-10-18T19:18:03.810+0000)

that's probably cause they have the health regen effect tied to it which would be quit absurd if it wasn't disabled by champ damage...still, makes eve's stealth suck pretty hard in comparision, though i don't think that twich's stealth is a healthy standart to have.

Not inaccurate. The OP is mostly a shitpost.

It would probably be a decent idea to split Eve's stealth from her passive. Stick her stealth on her Ult. Maybe have the detect range go down with ranks in her R.

DrugothOct 18, 20179 votes

I think having a detection range that changes throughout the game would be pretty confusing and hard to adjust to for many players. Not sure it's such a good idea.

Tik115Oct 18, 20176 votes

We already have adjustable ranges by rank though

AurelionSol KogMaw Nocturne Pantheon Ryze TahmKench Tristana TwistedFate Warwick Zac all have abilities (In Trist case, her passive) which get longer the more points you put into them (or in WWs case the faster he runs)

I fail to see how a gradually shrinking detection radius is any different from a TF jumping on you around 1-2 seconds after he activates his ult or a Zac jumping over the wall.

Like Eve you DO get some warning and there is time to react

ElikainOct 19, 20172 votes

None of the champions you mention have stealth as their gameplay mechanic. Which means that increased ranges of spells per said spell rank is something that's pretty common and when it comes to stealth, it would be confusing as it would make the gameplay pretty one-sided. Suddenly, the more deadlier you are with more items (and more levels), the less counterplay and react time the enemy team has against you, despite already being powerful enough to kill them in normal circumstances?

NasodianLordOct 19, 20172 votes

{quoted}

None of the champions you mention have stealth as their gameplay mechanic. Which means that increased ranges of spells per said spell rank is something that's pretty common and when it comes to stealth, it would be confusing as it would make the gameplay pretty one-sided. Suddenly, the more deadlier you are with more items (and more levels), the less counterplay and react time the enemy team has against you, despite already being powerful enough to kill them in normal circumstances?

but the thing is, i dont even feel like this Eve is that strong, like her regen has caught me by surprise but she isnt overbearing even when fed just annoying, i dont ever feel scared of her but i am a darius main so

and a btw, i was scared of old eve just because late game she would have enough to semi burst me and then auto me to death before i got all 5 stacks on her

ElikainOct 19, 20171 votes

I don't know. I gave her two games currently and my WL ratio is 50%. She seems decent when we're talking about the damage and her strengths and weaknesses are pretty clear so that's good. Her damage is definitely higher than it was and her build is basically remained the same but the only thing that bothers me is relatively high ult CD on early levels.

I feel like she should get some form of CD reduction if she kills a target or a bit shorter CD. AP junglers right now can barely itemize CD in their builds (from my experience).

UnboundHadesOct 19, 20171 votes

2 games isnt enough to judge any champion

ElikainOct 19, 20171 votes

I know it isn't. But her PBE experience is also a moot point because you're playing on the new runes there and it's PBE. I plan to get more games but this is my initial assessment. That's why i was pretty light with my problems with her, most notably her ultimate CD being too high.

I so far had no problems with her stealth detection range and i seemed to just dangle right outside my enemy's field of view to spot incoming ganks. Brushes are a problem and also jungle path curves. There's really nowhere you can go there so in the worst case scenario, you'd have to ult yourself over the wall and thus losing your most notable execute and evade ability for a while.

frollyOct 19, 20171 votes

But in Eve’s case, she may be out of detection range when she casts her spells. That’s the reason riot increased her range a while ago when she went mid. She could cast her ultimate from outside detection range and burst you down after. It allows counterplay.

rtbf225618241Oct 19, 20171 votes

I'd just make it disable if the heal is also triggered.

frollyOct 19, 20171 votes

Yeah. Played her in an aram and fiddles stupid crows hit me while I was already stealthed and not anywhere near detection range and knocked me out of stealth. Motherforking bs.

HachiraOct 19, 20178 votes

what is giving me aids in this thread is people screaming we want twitch's detect radius to go down.

Is this a sort of a joke or what? Rengar is a melee assassin and his detect radius is 725 while twitch who's ranged carry and usually stealthes when going to ult so he's basically an 850 range machine gun that can only be detected at 450 range. GENIUS

Serika ZeroOct 19, 20174 votes

rengar also gives a roar and announces his targets he is nearby in ult by like 2000 range, oh, and..... it has like 3 times the CD or twich's Q......

pro rusher 2Oct 19, 20171 votes

It shows wher target is, he gets stack if his passive, he slows his target, he jumps on it, it lasts longer. Dont like the facts kiddo?

Serika ZeroOct 19, 20172 votes

kiddo? haha good joke, shall i take that as a compliment? :)

rengar has to commit to a fight with his ult and go in melee range as a glass cannon, with no escapes. Twich has 500+ range. rengar's slow is single target, twich is aoe rengar's damage is single target, twich does burst per second aoe damage

how about these facts? :)

WingsofGulgazorOct 19, 20171 votes

I mean twitch is basically a useless champion without his ult though. Also generally you need good setup to delete people in a way that would be completely unfair. Unless twitch just happens to be fed. But rengar can get to the state where he's unfair to play against a lot easier then twitch can if he's allowed to which is why rengar got all the nerfs. I mean say what you will but rengar has been in stronger states and the facts are it was way more oppressive then what even current twitch is and it's a lot easier to pubstomp games with rengar when he's meta then twitch.

Also Riots most likely going to be making a lot of changes alongside the rune update during preseason. The only reason they haven't made big changes is they don't want to screw over worlds like they have in previous years. Last preseason seemed sort of lackluster but I think this next preseason will have a lot more changes.

Serika ZeroOct 19, 20172 votes

people are complaining because twich has smaller detection radius (you can get closer easier) than ranger and eve also, he has no 'warning' system like the other two.

Eve will warn you with her charm starting to channel, rengar has his ult scream from a mile away and then that ! point. Twich? nothing.

That's why people complain about twich so much and call it unfair and compare him with rengar. Because, if rengar gave you no warning what so ever, adc players would start to call that unfair and broken. See the irony? Or eve's charm being instant (no need to wait for charge time, just instantly mark and hit enemy).

And that's the problem. You can't have that big of a bias or double standard. You either give rengar and eve less counterplay against them, or, you add more counterplay to twich. I'm more in favor of the later option two, with people in 2000 radius to know when twich is in stealth around them is a good idea. Aka: the rengar treatment.

While it won't matter in team fights as much. Jungle twich will dissapear and so will roaming playstyle where you roam and gank other lanes as an adc. With to a certain degree, i won't mind seeing jungle twich vanish as a side effect.

And now he can't slowball quickly as fuck in the mid game, which makes his damage more agreeable in the late game.

pro rusher 2Oct 20, 20171 votes

Eve has no warning system eather. People think that they "need" to charm. Last eve couldnt even 1 shot, new eve can have a free kill if she gets her charm off, or normal gank, like graves, the only difference is, that she has more burst and invisibility at lvl 6, and graves has his dash at early lvls.

Serika ZeroOct 20, 20171 votes

you sadly have to wait. Because she's melee. And the enemy can run away from you much more easily.

That's why, eve has a warning system inbuilt in her charm. You have to land that charm because it also lowers the enemy MR. So, unless you got 10 kills ahead by minute 15, you need that charm.

Also, yes. Assassins need gap closers, you correct with that. Diana is the weakest in-lane assassin because she only gets gap closer at lv6. Even akali gets it at lv 2 :)

facemelter710Oct 18, 20177 votes

Eves stealth detect range should drop by a percent based on champ levels. seeing as it starts at 900 which makes it pretty useless imo. it should drop by 5% per champ level after level 8 up to a max of 50% at level 18 bringing it to 450 at level 18. and twitches could go down a flat 50 its to big imo also. eve needs other tweaks to make her viable for high elo and pro play. including detect range scaling down.

base dmg on q scaling up the q base dmg is quite useless for pre 6 ganks. you cant kill anyone with it it needs at least 10 more dmg per hit at lvl 1 .

The w takes 2.5 sec b4 you can charm. needs to scale down .2 sec per ability level. 2.5 lvl 1 . 2.3 lvl 2. 2.1 lvl 3. 1.9 lvl 4. 1.7 lvl 5. Also the w needs the duration scaled up to max of 6 seconds at ability lvl 5 + .2 secs per lvl. that makes it so much better into the late game.

As far as the E goes. the empowered E dash range should go up 75 units.

As of now you only have a 15 minute level of usefulness with her in have min 6 up to min 21 mins. b 4 of after those windows you are fairly weak early and 2 useless late for team fights.

There are more issues with this rework I could go into and she could use several tweaks in several places to make her better. as of now she is fun. but nowhere as good as she used to be and she was not all that great to begin with pre rework. I have 250K plus mastery points on eve so I can def say I was and am an eve main.

Also 1 more suggestion I would like to make for eve tune ups. eves ULTI NEEDS CHANGES. leaving behind kills left and right because I am forced to jump back when I use it sucks. how about on ulti cast. Eve goes instantly stealth. Kah zix true stealth none of this detection ring bs. for 2.5 sec. and that mark shows up behind her your ulti can be re cast to jump back ie. zed.

Making 1 or 2 of these changes will really bring up to par with other assn champs in the game and make her worth picking.

Over all the rework is going in a good direction but feels quite lack luster especially with the lack of build options she now has compared to old eve you could actually counter build your enemy and adapt to any situation really miss my dusk blade static shiv eve 1 shot build

Thanks for reading and GL HF.

SzGamer227Oct 19, 20175 votes

That's a wall of text and a half. I would highly suggest dividing that into 3 or 4 different sections and (if possible) adding a condensed TL;DR version of the post.

That much text all in one bunch that close together is exhausting to read.

MawootadOct 19, 20174 votes

Why the fuck aren't all detection ranges for camouflage the same? I get that the different champs have different capabilities, but detection ranges being variable just makes it harder to learn how to play against those champs.

pro rusher 2Oct 19, 20171 votes

That is stupidest thing ever. Shaco with same detection range as eve? You sure?

Entheos GeonOct 19, 20179 votes

Shaco has invisibility, not camouflage. Now who looks stupid?

iamthegoatofwarOct 19, 20174 votes

That pro rusher guy has been trolling this post. just ignore him.

AirKingNeoOct 18, 20173 votes

Two different champions.

Blackstone01Oct 19, 20178 votes

Yeah, ones an ADC who has spent the past few months being broken, capable of bursting teams and having an AA range longer than his stealth range, while the other is an "assassin" who gives you a good 2.5 second heads up that she's ganking you.

50ShadesOfÀDCOct 19, 20173 votes

We cant but Rito can.Pls stop writig those "Can we all" titles

DuskDaUmbreonOct 18, 20172 votes

So, with this, Eve now has to spend 10-20% of her mana pool for 10-14 seconds of stealth, since that's what Twitch has right now? And she loses the heal on stealth, instead gaining AS and movement speed? I dunno, but I think that'd hurt Eve far more than it'd help.

And Twitch would love having a real passive, as opposed to a DoT only better than zero-drake Elder Dragon that requires 6 autos to ramp up to full damage.

GrReaper96Oct 19, 20176 votes

Hes talking about the detection range and shimmer only

pro rusher 2Oct 19, 20172 votes

Than he should explain it better? He is actually saying:how about if we swap twichs stealth with eves?

ChuShoeOct 19, 20173 votes

But he did explain it perfectly fine. If he didn't, why are you the only one who didn't understand they were trying to say.

pro rusher 2Oct 19, 20172 votes

He only sadhow about we swap twich's stealth with eve's. Eves stealth is passive, twiches stealth is spell. So we would swap it and eve would have twiches e, and he would have her passive. He only explained what abilities would be swapped and how their abilites are now for people that dont know.

ChuShoeOct 19, 20172 votes

In context of what he actually said, if you tried reading it at all, it was clearly talking about the range of stealth. Stop trying to play it off like everyone else is wrong.

pro rusher 2Oct 20, 20171 votes

Show me where he sad eve wouldn't have to pay for stealth, and where twich would.

pro rusher 2Oct 19, 20172 votes

Got diwnvoted for telling the facts :D

ChuShoeOct 18, 20172 votes

I think twitch's stealth should probably just get as large as eves, as well as an indicator.

I think eve's current stealth should be a bit smaller, but not as small as twitches.

YuGiHoOct 18, 20172 votes

Yasss! Riot hire this one here!

PrinceOfStormsOct 19, 20172 votes

Or just give Eve stealth from level 1 but have the detection range scale down as she gains levels (1100/900/700/500) at 1/6/11/16

sketchy1Oct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So Twitch gets a 900 detect range and drops out of stealth if he takes damage from a random caster minion.

Eve gets 700 detect range and shimmers when hit.

Solve two problems at once.

I don't think giving twitch a perma stealth is a very good idea.... ESPECIALLY the same level he gets a spray and pray up. but giving his to evvelyn dosent sound too bad

GrReaper96Oct 19, 20173 votes

I think he means the type of camo, not the duration and activeness. Twitch still has to Q and wait to enter stealth but the detection range is similar to Eve and he exits stealth when hit, and vice versa.