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I'm so fucking scared of what CertainlyT has in mind for Caitlyn... Oh my god.

Gesusandalaio··154 votes·16,720 views

I guess I'll be away from the bot lane for a good while.

Mordekaiser Thresh vs Zyra Caitlyn for the CancerlyT bot lane?

301 Comments

Chaotic Reks113 votes

How the hell is he still allowed to rework champs after what happened to Mordekaiser

brad26 votes

[{quoted}](name=NyX Reks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=soi9JK9c,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-13T14:48:42.163+0000)

How the hell is he still allowed to rework champs after what happened to Mordekaiser

because they are fucking interesting I would rather have a certainly t caitlyn than the caitlyn right now because the cait right now does one thing: auto attack

Vistha Kai73 votes

Except Mordekaiser is even more bland than before.

For Carthage13 votes

Can confirm.

Nothing quite like getting engaged on only to flash/ult/E/Q the enemy ADC into oblivion in order to survive by the skin of your teeth.

Now it's don't get engaged on, wait for the enemy to blow all their hard CC on the rest of your team, walk up slowly with Q active, ult the ADC, Q whatever's close, and spam your E like a hundred times to keep your shield up long enough to not die before you bash people over the head enough that they either die or leave.

Oshlet18 votes

The one good thing about morde's rework was what the sound guys did. His 3rd Q makes an obscenely satisfying sound.

For Carthage9 votes

Eh, it's like a leveling up sound - it's not like an exceptionally well designed sound. But it's the fact you landed the 3rd Q and that sound is rather unique to doing that, so you feel like you've just been rewarded.

Kind of like Pavlov's dog with a bell.

Chaotic Reks7 votes

and that's different from a majority of the other adcs out there?

brad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=NyX Reks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=soi9JK9c,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-10-13T16:32:18.334+0000)

and that's different from a majority of the other adcs out there?

Compare cait to graves/ezreal/vayne/corki and you will see the differences, as of right now you could probably play caitlyn without a keyboard that's how bland she is

AMYS GRAVE14 votes

Yeah, cait is different than all of those. She has a gameplay identity and doesn't need to be changed. If you don't enjoy cait's playstyle that's fine, but there is nothing wrong with her kit as is.

brad1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, cait is different than all of those. She has a gameplay identity and doesn't need to be changed. If you don't enjoy cait's playstyle that's fine, but there is nothing wrong with her kit as is.

I'm not saying I agree with it I'm just trying to defend someone who really doesn't deserve all the shit he gets

AMYS GRAVE3 votes

Well, i would say he (i assume you are referring to CertainlyT) deserves some of it. The community certainly over-reacts and takes it wayyyyyyyy overboard, but he has made some pretty bad mistakes in the past in champion design and in the lack of community interaction.

brad1 votes

{quoted}

Well, i would say he (i assume you are referring to CertainlyT) deserves some of it. The community certainly over-reacts and takes it wayyyyyyyy overboard, but he has made some pretty bad mistakes in the past in champion design and in the lack of community interaction.

We don't know how much he can actually control just because his champions have historically been overtuned doesn't mean that was his fault

AMYS GRAVE10 votes

Not overtuned, overloaded. Take thresh, his kit would still be godlike for a support even if all of his active abilities did no damage. An overloaded kit is bad design, overtuned kits can be fixed.

Tails Doll5 votes

She has some problems with her kit though. Not saying she has old Mord levels of problems, but she could use some love. Not CertanlityT type of love, mind you, but someone that knows what they are doing.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

She has some problems with her kit though.

how so?

Jari4 votes

I'm assuming the fact that for a champ who's trademark is meant to be the 650 range, there are quite a few champs that can outrange her. Jinx and Tris actually don't take that long to start shooting past her range, and then what?

Dextix LT55 votes

Mordekaiser 3Q, win. No Q, Die.

Much interesting such wow.

LeeDark3 votes

Yeah, let's just ignore the rest of a champ's kit.

Lee Sin -- Land Q win, No Q, fail. TF -- Land Q win, No Q, fail.

Vistha Kai20 votes

Lee has more going on than just Q and TF is about his W instead.

LeeDark2 votes

So does Morde, dumbass.

Tails Doll22 votes

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Meeks0115 votes

Blitzcrank Land Q, PLAYS PLAYS PLAYS. Miss Q, do nothing until it comes back.

Only Play Darius3 votes

I mean CT likely had some goodwill stockpiled from when he singlehandedly made Urgot competitively viable without breaking the game. Might have been enough to get forgiveness for what happened to Mord.

Keevalroy19 votes

Might have been enough to get forgiveness for what happened to Mord.

Darius Thresh Yasuo Kalista creation.

Never.

Only Play Darius5 votes

{quoted}

Darius Thresh Yasuo Kalista creation.

Never.

Try to go easy on him. Kalista would actually be a pretty cool champ if not for that mistake of a passive.

Yasuo is kind of like Nidalee in that I'm not quite sure what drugs they were on when they designed that kit lol. Yes he is ridiculously overloaded and has way too much going for him but you can't deny that he is exciting to play and unlike anything else in the game, gotta give CT credit for at least bravely attempting to redefine the mADC class.

Thresh isn't that bad to be honest, he is certainly overloaded but people don't necessarily hate Thresh himself, they just hate seeing the same support in literally half their games. But he was the first aggressive playmaking support and definitely made soloqueue a little easier for support mains now that they had an easier time making plays.

As for Darius, it's a love/hate relationship. I find his design obnoxious yet he's one of my favorite champions. Keep in mind this was CT's first champion and I personally think he got a bit too excited like a kid in a candy shop (he just got hired by Riot you would too) and it resulted in that mess of poor design choices and unfair mechanics we call Darius. So he had to be nerfed into a red Garen that was even more useless to his team but would completely have his way with you if you accidentally got a millimeter too close to him. However, you don't have to worry looking forward because Riot stated they would likely never create another champion like Darius, and his rework has fixed many of his design problems and gives him a more clearly defined role and playstyoe in the overall game.

I hate most of those champions too but you gotta look at the bright side, try to see the positives in things.

Keevalroy15 votes

I hate most of those champions too but you gotta look at the bright side, try to see the positives in things.

The only bright side to this is that they are fun to play AS.

That bright side is immediately nullified because they're agonizing to play AGAINST.

This is made worse because he continues to make the same mistake over and over again while his creations end up being more toxic and infuriating than the previous. That's a giant red flag that should be very apparent to Riot...only they don't seem to care. Well it all works out because the pretentious egotist pumping these _things _ out doesn't either. He doesn't give a single solitary shit about what it's like to fight his little monsters, and loves to over-glorify his "grand designs" and "thought-provoking ideas."

There is no bright side that can outshine the damage he's done, and the damage he's continuing to do to League.

Red Ryu31 votes

I guess with the hate around here people are expecting this,

New passive: Gets to hop like kalista, gains double the hop distance if she hops to a ward.

Q: Also heals her for every champion hit

W: Acts as a ward now.

E: Now is a stun.

R: Is an AoE ziggs bomb.

~

But he's not gonna do this.

Keevalroy9 votes

But he's not gonna do this.

That does sound like something he'd do though...

Talk about paranoia all you want, that looks like a kit he would create.

Edit: Nevermind, Jelly Mac has the proper kit design.

Only Play Darius26 votes

Is CT really working on Caitlyn? Holy hell after seeing what happened to Mord I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up something like this:

"Hey guys, CT here, designer of widely beloved champions Darius (my first) and Kalista (my latest) along with the first rework to make Mordekaiser professionally viable. Just wanted to give you an update/sneak peek on what we have in store for our favorite sheriff in the upcoming ADC class rework. I wanted to make our premier sniper different from traditional ADC, so I made her more of a 'sniper' and less of a crit machinegun by reworking her passive into giving her more clear strengths at long range and making her significantly weaker at close range, and took a page from the excellent Ashe rework by giving Cait a unique scaling with attack speed that makes her less of a right-click machine but still entices her to build it. Changes have been made to Caitlyn's abilities that allow her to enhance them with her new passive and overall centers her power around smart management of her headshot uptime. I know Caitlyn is supposed to be the 'learn to play ADC' but trust me these new mechanics are for the better. I also decided to play up her 'scout sniper/law enforcement' theme by giving her a mechanized companion (created by Jayce and Vi and used in the new lore to help Cait conduct police business) that acts like an AI support for the team, providing global utility with vision among other tools. It's important to note that her drone is disabled while Caitlyn is dead or sitting in base, so as to stress the importance of the team's duty to protect the ADC and keep her alive. Also she can blind jungle monsters now so you can use her as a niche jungler if you want, Kindred don't get jealous now! Changes below, hope you guys like it!"

  • CertainlyT

Headshot(innate) REWORKED: Caitlyn gains only 50% value from bonus attack speed, but her headshot passive is now a self buff activates every X seconds (reduced by attack speed) and lasts until her next autoattack, which has a windup animation twice as long as normal but is amped to have bonus range and converted to do 300%AD damage, scaling down to 50%AD based on how close the target is to her at time of cast because snipers should be weak at close range and strong at a distance.

90 Caliber Net NEW EFFECT: Headshot passive is consumed if an enemy champion or large monster is hit by the net, which in addition to the headshot damage blinds them for 1.5 seconds (duration doubled against jg monsters) because she shot them in the face with a net.

Ace in The Hole NEW PASSIVE: 25%/50%/75% (scales with ability rank) of headshot damage is added to Caitlyn's ulti as bonus damage if her passive is up at the time of cast and the ulti hits its original target. If projectile is bodyblocked, headshot will be consumed but no bonus damage will be applied to any targets. At rank 3, if ulti is casted while headshot passive is up the projectile will become a passthrough that reduces damage by 10% through each target until it reaches the original target because Caitlyn "never misses".

Peacemaker NEW PASSIVE: Caitlyn has a UAV overwatch drone (global/not visible) that is constantly scanning the battlefield, the drone is disabled entirely while Caitlyn is dead or standing within the base walls. While the drone is active, all allied wards have 5% increased vision radius and a random enemy champion is 'marked' every few seconds (reduced by 1 second each time a champion is hit by Q), granting true sight of them for (1 + Q ability rank) seconds. If Cait lands a headshot or ulti on a UAV marked target and the target survives, the UAV fires a hextech predator missile that deals (8% + 1% per 40AD) of the targets missing HP as magic damage. If any allied champion kills a UAV marked target, the UAV drops a care package near their current location that restores a percentage of missing HP and mana for the first champion to claim it through a 1 second channel.

Snap Traps NEW PASSIVE: 180 second internal cooldown. If Caitlyn drops below 30%HP, her drone rushes to her aid and gives her a shield for a percentage of her max HP that slowly regenerates but will not recharge if depleted. During this time all global benefits of the UAV drone will be disabled. The drone has a basic attack that slows the target and deals 25% of Cait's AD as magic damage but becomes targetable and if destroyed will dissipate Cait's shield and the drone will be disabled for 90 seconds (countdown freezes while Cait is dead/inside base).

Snap Traps NEW EFFECT: While Caitlyn has headshot passive ready, max cast range of snap trap is quadrupled and if she clicks outside of the normal cast range, she consumes headshot passive and twice the normal mana cost and uses her drone to airdrop a trap using a parchute and slowly floats down to the destination over 4 seconds, granting vision in a 500 range radius while it floats down which shrinks as it gets closer to the ground. These empowered snap traps have a map limit independent to regular snap traps and passively grant vision equal to a Teemo shroom. Empowered snap traps spring with such force that the victim is briefly knocked up before getting rooted, and will be instantly marked by the drone if available. The base damage of the empowered snap trap is doubled and the AP ratio is converted to AD, but unlike regular traps the empowered traps can be disarmed by placing a pink ward within a 100 unit radius of the trap.

TLDR; Genuinely good ideas but he overloads champions with convoluted mechanics. Sorry it's so long but it's intentional to make a point.

Westonbirt5 votes

Only one of Warwick abilities is actually an active, a point and click %health damage. The other two are stat boosts and his ult is a point and click suppression.

The gap between the load put on new versus old designs is so gaping that if you were to stand on one side and look at the other end you'd be like "wow, that's pretty gaping".

Meanie405 votes

tldr indeed, but CertainlyT tldr enough for CertainlyT.

RiotRiot Scruffy22 votes

I wouldn't worry too much. The caitlyn changes are much less of a shift than morde. CertainlyT has focused on enhancing and emphasizing the cool elements that already exist on the character rather than pushing her in a new direction. A few notable elements that the update is gonna really deliver on IMO

  • Dat range
  • Headshot
  • Traps
  • Cool combos (like e->q)
TTUPhoenix9 votes

You mean the same way he emphasized the unique strengths and weaknesses of Morde? By taking away one of his abilities?

qetzel12 votes

Nope. He pushed Morde in a new direction. That is exactly the opposite of what RiotScruffy is saying.

RiotRiot Scruffy13 votes

Exactly, we know that the morde changes were more of a direction shift than an expansion of what he currently was. In the case of caitlyn it will more caitlyn instead of a new champ.

Dark Trennow27 votes

{quoted}

Exactly, we know that the morde changes were more of a direction shift than an expansion of what he currently was. In the case of caitlyn it will more caitlyn instead of a new champ.

So just because Morde didn't see as much play he had to get shoved into a new direction no one wants to see him go? He had to get made into the meta breaker champ instead of a new champion doing that? I just love how little you guys listen to us when we're being vocal about things we don't like. Everyday there's a thread about Morde on the front page and everyday we get ignored. Now you're taking his title too.

Dessem5 votes

A "Hey guys, there's threads on the front page every day about Mordekaiser being toxic. What should we do?" B "We could rework him again and fix it." A "GET OUT. Other ideas?" C "I know! Let's mutilate his theme and take away his lore." B "How's that going to help?" C "Well... players will be so outraged, they'll forget about the rework for a bit. New players'll see less complaints about how toxic Mordekaiser is or how terrible his rework, they'll just see babbies complaining about lore." A & B "OOOOH"

TerraRising13 votes

{quoted}

Exactly, we know that the morde changes were more of a direction shift than an expansion of what he currently was. In the case of caitlyn it will more caitlyn instead of a new champ.

Serious question: How can we trust you? Once these changes reach the PBE, they're set in stone except for numbers tweaks.

This is precisely why I fear for what you guys might have in mind for Yorick. Given how much Riot's hated him in the past (collectively), you could do what GrumpyMonkey did with Trundle... only worse.

ZylotheWolfbane8 votes

Dunno if you meant to word it that way, but the way you said that made it seem like you're implying that Mordekaiser's changes were meant to make him into a new champion. Which is NOT what should be done to Morde. If you want a new champion, make a new champion, don't rip away a champion that many people love and enjoy just to shove him into a new form you prefer.

Just saying that's what you're implying with the context of your response. I doubt you actually meant it that way.

Despite the fact it sadly ended up being very close to that way...

Blue Moon Wolf2 votes

You mean the same way he emphasized the unique strengths and weaknesses of Morde? By taking away one of his abilities?

And the new title change to "lord of death". Can't forgive forget that :L

TTUPhoenix4 votes

Riot: We've decided to change Caitlyn's title from "The Piltover Sheriff", since complex, multifaceted characters are too hard. Caitlyn's title will now be "The Sniper".

Retillin23 votes

You understand WHY people are scared about it right? Please tell me Riot understands what the community dislikes about his champion designs/reworks.

RiotRiot Scruffy10 votes

Yea, for a popular (and well made) character like caitlyn it's absolutely normal to worry that we would do something really transformative or out there. That's why I responded to the OP to explain that the nature of these changes are pretty close to what you would expect for a character like Caitlyn that is already well liked.

LankPants14 votes

Yea, for a popular (and well made) character like caitlyn it's absolutely normal to worry that we would do something really transformative or out there.

That's not really the worry. Ashe was a popular and well made character, had transformative work and it went down well.

People don't like CT's champs. They're universally bullshit and hated. People don't want to see their champs become that. That is the issue here.

Jeddy01733 votes

I think you misunderstood the question Retillin asked.He or she isn't worried about Cait being reworked (well,that's not the main problem).They worried about CERTAINLYT reworkin Cait.That's the main concern of Retillin's comment & this thread in general. While CT's champs are unique & fun to play AS,when compared to the rest of the roster his champs are despised for their toxicity & how bad they are to play AGAINST.The Morde reworked just added to the fire by showing people what would happen if CT even reworked a champ rather than just making them. Though as you said,Cait's update isn't going to change her identity like Morde's.People are still worried because it's CERTAINLYT.He's asking if you understand why people are scared about CERTAINLYT reworking it.

Blue Moon Wolf12 votes

Before the crap morde update, I had no Idea who CertainlyT was, or that Darius Thresh Kalista and Yasuo where even made by the same person for that matter. But now I know and honestly, I don't want him to go anywhere near my main when his update comes up. Things get WAY to broken with his champs.

Keevalroy11 votes

That's not why people are scared and you know it. Let me ask you this to reinforce the point, you understand why people don't want CERTAINLYT to rework her right?

Edit: More to the point, after everything that's happened, after everything he's said, after everything he's done, just a personal question: how the fuck is he still employed?

Hellioning9 votes

So her range is increased, her headshot now deals %health true damage, her traps are now permanent and she can have as many as she likes, and E-Q causes Q to deal double damage.

Got it.

Akali is SO HOT13 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't worry too much. The caitlyn changes are much less of a shift than morde. CertainlyT has focused on enhancing and emphasizing the cool elements that already exist on the character rather than pushing her in a new direction. A few notable elements that the update is gonna really deliver on IMO

  • Dat range
  • Headshot
  • Traps
  • Cool combos (like e->q)

but where will the %max health true damage go?

LankPants8 votes

but where will the %max health true damage go?

Headshot. Where else?

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