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Oh look who would knew a pefectly balanced item is now abused...and soon to be nerfed

1995 2017RiP Eva··16 votes·2,497 views

item 3153 was perfectly balanced and riot decide to make it more ADC friendly and now abused by every adc! AND WHAT THAT MEAN BOYS AND GALS? the item is going to get destroyed!!

YAY FOR BALANCE riot is gonna nerf that item and never consider that we may just put back the old values no no in the mind of riot they are never wrong...so you know i can see the nerfs right now

"Well guys we see that btrk was abused so we nerf the Damage by 20 the AS by 5 and the life steal by 5% and the on hit damage by 2% and the active damage is now 50 magic damage and dosent steal MS yeah now we feel this item is balanced"

Oh and we delete Xin/Jax/Irelia/and every other champion that use that item before the change but when riot would nerf that item those champs would have no option in build but ADCs would just go back to the old lethality or crit build

GJ RIOT

And i am sure because lucian atm abuse the whole BTRK/TRINITY both of those items would get destroyed but riot would refuse to see the problem that those items were balanced but overbuffing lucian and items would make him strong

Go downvote me lucian mains idgaf you know it i know it that ether the champ or the items would get destroyed because riot dosent know how to balance the game without destroying stuff

47 Comments

AirKingNeo10 votes

The BoRK changes didn't make it "ADC friendly". What the heck are you smoking? It was made to be more early game friendly. Obviously ADCs are the largest group of people able to buy it first item while the shallow melee pool of Aatrox and Jax who can build it first exist.

EDIT: Oh and what's the heck wrong with ADCs who build BoRK being relevant for once? YOU THINK A WHOLE YEAR OF ESSENCE REAVER 30% CDR ADCS AND CASTER LETHALITY ADCS HAS BEEN A FUN RIDE? WHERE A SUBGROUP OF A CLASS IS UNVIABLE BECAUSE OF HOW STRONG ESSENCE REAVER AND ARMOR PEN ARE? Seriously I don't get people like you.

I actually enjoy the BoRK change though I'd say lower the lifesteal down to 12%. Also let me ask you how ADC are "abusing" BoRK? They're clearly intended to use it as much as Irelia, Jax, Aatrox, and Xin Zhao are. It's a fucking ON HIT item. DPS champions build that shit. What are ADCs only allowed to build Crit, Crit, Crit, and NOTHING BUT CRIT? BUT THEN SUDDENLY AREN'T ALLOWED TO DPS BLOW PEOPLE WHO AREN'T TANKS UP AT FULL BUILD? Which is it? Seriously, let non-lethality ADCs be slightly relevant for the first 2 items.

As for BoRK Trinity Lucian. That build has decent trade off since it doesn't have any crit in it, thus falling off. I actually would enjoy if ADCs could build like that instead of being pushing into Crit. I might actually enjoy playing the role!

Seriously, I want people to explain something. What's the difference between abusing items and innovation? Is Ziggs abusing the bot lane role by being strong in it? Or is it innovation/adaptation?

1995 2017RiP Eva2 votes

Mostly because range champions can apply the 4 extra second MS steal MUCH EASIER than any melee champion? maybe that why...

And nobody care if they build BTRK and not crit the problem here is that because is now abused from ADCs the item would get DESTROYED and melee champions would have nothing to build any more when ADCs would go back to CRIT build

THAT THE PROBLEM HERE

And you compare xin zhao with that abuse btrk? DUDE HAVE LIKE ONE GAP closer and 0 escapes while i dont know lucian have dash every reset with his AA and every ADC in meta have short of escape and you say why its abused from ADCs?

Pls..

Awoof3 votes

{quoted}

Mostly because range champions can apply the 4 extra second MS steal MUCH EASIER than any melee champion? maybe that why...

You mean the extra duration for attacks that has been removed from PBE again before the patch went live? Cause, you know, it was removed.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Mostly because range champions can apply the 4 extra second MS steal MUCH EASIER than any melee champion? maybe that why...

Read the patch notes or stop making troll-quality posts.

I'll restate myself again. What's the difference between innovation/adaptation and abuse?

DunkinNoobs5 votes

Oh no, Botrk isn't terrible anymore. The end is near.

dYW7w6mjp14 votes

Lethality ruined ar pen.

1995 2017RiP Eva1 votes

And what riot did? do we nerf the lethality from 66% to 50%? NO we gut every champion and item in the game and we refuse to say "well buffing lethality to 66% was a mistake"

(Tho talon need nerfs and edge of the night (needed)

WiegrafOfValor3 votes

I'll say again, it should be:

item 3153 - Melee Only item 3142 - Melee Only item 3071 - Melee Only item 3022 - Melee Only item 3053 - Melee Only item 3814 - Melee Only item 3156 - Melee Only

AirKingNeo4 votes

BoRK isn't supposed to be melee only. Thinking that is really dillusional.

Lethality items don't need to be melee only. That kills AD casters massively.

Maw would need to be able to stack with Sterak's Gage to be melee only and vice versa.

l Dárius l2 votes

what the fuck is an ad caster? mf? shes one of the reasons these items need to be ad only jayce? he can build melee and ranged items quinn? shes designed to be crit. jhin? crit lucian? crit graves? another champ meant for crit i really can not think of an "ad caster" other than jayce who is designed for armorpen

Ez dePaz2 votes

Varus

SH Azykan3 votes

AS+crit works fine on varus...just people who want to stand out of a xeraths range and be nothing but a q spammer want lethality only.

AirKingNeo1 votes

He's still meant to use armor pen as an ADC caster.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Varus

Also why shouldn't they build these items? What is wrong with innovation?

l Dárius l1 votes

if i recall correctly varus was a regular adc until sniper varus was created if i recall correctly he was supposed to build runaans and other crit items and proc w on a shitload of people.

AirKingNeo1 votes

So is it innovation or abuse?

l Dárius l1 votes

abuse? would it be innovation for lulu's meta build to be full ap because she can oneshot people while being hard to kill just because ap itemization is so good? shes also one of the best midlaners now in this situation. terrible example but i had to find something

AirKingNeo1 votes

How is it abuse? He's intended to build crit but people innovated and played him as a poke mage. Why isn't it innovation?

l Dárius l1 votes

oh. i just came up with the perfect example wow HEY GUYS! ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN WE "EVOLVED" EKKO INTO A "TANK"

AirKingNeo1 votes

You didn't answer my question. Yes tank Ekko is an innovation. Literally he was given the best kit for a tank without even being made to be one. People saw this an adapted him to the best he could be. So again, I'll ask you again to answer my question.

l Dárius l1 votes

because when a champion is designed to be played one way but players find out that another way is better and this newfound "innovation" needs nerfs, kinda is abuse.

Variks the Loyal2 votes

How does Lethality being melee only ruin AD casters? The vast majority of AD casters are melee.

Most Marksmen, even ones like Graves and Varus, are designed with the intent and expectation of building crit and attack speed.

WiegrafOfValor1 votes

Riot wouldn't just let AD caster without items, but they need items aimed for them not borrowing and breaking items design for other classes.

BoRK was made with XinZhao Udyr Warwick MasterYi MonkeyKing Renekton Olaf Tryndamere in mind, fighter with low mbility that need something to catch and stay with theyr targets. Item gives sustain, slow and AS, everything they need to catch squish targets and prevent their kiting. But ADC just took it and made kiting even more absurd, that was back then when we didn't had *melee only mechanic, that's why it wasn't made with the melee only stamp when it came out, sadly the ADC circlejerk won't let they take any item of the game and make it melee only.

#TLDR;

#Those items can be balanced if they become melee only since the fact that you can proc their OP passives on a safe distance with ADC make the item extremely useful, thus forcing Riot's hand in nerfing them to a point that it becames only efficiently on ADC and sub-par on melee bruisers. Surely Riot can then make items aimed for AD caster with the tag *Ranged only and balance it accordingly.

PS: All AD assassins are melee, so making lethality items melee only woundn't hurt any of them. Any ranged AD that build lethality need items aimed for them, but it can't be the same items melee use.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Oh yes and I'm sure you are Riot and you know EXACTLY what Riot wants BoRK to be.

All assassins are melee? That's weird. Pretty sure Graves and Quinn exist. Pretty sure AD casters need itemization. Pretty sure early game ADCs need a certain itemization to be relevant.

Also balancing items by range doesn't change anything. The item is still just as broken. The item isn't enhanced by being ranged like Hydra would be.

WiegrafOfValor1 votes

Because it's impossible for the creators of the game and all its items to just create similar items for ranged assassins and AD casters, balanced with their ranged factoring in.

I guess that's impossible..

Spoofghoul1 votes

no they all hsould be melee only because Jayce exists

fuck that guy for once

AirKingNeo1 votes

Because making a champion have 0 items to buy is a great way to balance them. Remember Jax on the mage update patch?

Yaśuo Main2 votes

item 3814 why would this be melee? It's a cloak, atleast be realistic.

WiegrafOfValor2 votes

That's your point? You really want to do that in the game where all ranged champions build 3 swords as core items?

Ashe item 3031 item 3072 item 3087 ??

Yaśuo Main2 votes

?

I never said those shouldn't be melee? I think you are confused.

SH Azykan1 votes

name makes this so much better

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Don't forget item 3046, or how every single adc starts with item 1055.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

So what the fuck is Kindred going to do if that happens? You just took away 2 of the items that they need to actually be worth a shit. 3, if they're laning.

WiegrafOfValor1 votes

New items, tailored for ranged assassins and casters?

GreenBoÍ1 votes

{quoted}

I'll say again, it should be:

item 3153 - Melee Only item 3142 - Melee Only item 3071 - Melee Only item 3022 - Melee Only item 3053 - Melee Only item 3814 - Melee Only item 3156 - Melee Only

Definetly agree... i mean they can buy them for stats, but passives would be melee only... Or half effectivness

Mâiden1 votes

BUT! how would all those champs without swords build these? ZedAkaliXinZhaoTalonOlafJarvanIV That's like saying olaf can only build black clever... and talon can only get cloak .... also steraks guage is a magical glove? it doesnt do damage it just helps you do more damage and block damage! :D

OtterlyLost2 votes

You're telling me that ADC's can be AD Casters as well? Varus, Graves, Lucian, Ezreal, and Corki all have low CD abilities that they are meant to interweave into their AA's and specifically even do things to buff the AA's in between the abilities. That sounds like the definition of an AD Caster to me but just for simplicity's sake, lets look at the group I mentioned and compare their combos to the regular AA'ing, crit based AD's.

Graves = Q, AA, E, AA, AA, Ult. There are an equally number of Abilities to AA's in this combo and the E in the middle is even specifically needed for him to get another AA off due to his reload system. Varus = Ult, Q, AA, AA, AA, E. Again, equal number of abilities to AA's Ratio. Seeing a pattern Lucian = E, AA-AA, Q, AA-AA, W, AA-AA. He gets more AA's in specifically because his passive encourages him to use his abilities in a controlled burst combo. :/

Now let's look at AA based AD's.

Jinx = Q, AA. That's it. You can throw a Zap in there if you want but nope. The majority is just turn Q on and AA your head off. Maybe not even that. Tristana = E, Q, AA. Yeah, that's the most basic Trist combo. Toss a bomb on their head, press Q for an AS steroid, and try to do as much damage as possible with your AA's. Caitlyn = E, AA or W, AA. That's the majority of her combo. The rest of it is just AA'ing with Runaans to get head shots. :/

So yes, I'd say that there are AD casters in ADCs and there are quite a lot of them at that. How many AD's are there? 18? And at least half of them I'd consider an AD Caster. :/ A good chunk of the ADC champ pool, in fact, would classify best as an AD Caster than a usual AA'ing ADC.

As for whether ADC's are abusing BoRK, that's utter nonsense. Its really good right now, yeah. But I don't feel like its outlandishly broken. I'm exceptionally happy with the change, to be honest, because it actually feels more accessible to more champions. The lowered AS sucks, sure, but that just means now ADCs and other champions who build AS can now build it without worry of going over the AS cap. Which makes it an amazing item for Tristana finally. I loved building BoRK on her in season 5 before they changed IE and Crit items so drastically. And then Season 6 and 7 happened and it became necessary for her to have two crit items to make her damage worth a damn and I just couldn't anymore. :/ it was too much AS in her build that I was wasting stats with her Q active.

Now I can actually, comfortably fit it into her build and it helps her out with that shitty fucking mid game because I get to build Statik instead of Runaan's and still get 2.5 AS with Q active. I'm finally able to win games with Tristana again, which is sad because I have 600k Mastery points and have been hard stuck and frustrated with the game for weeks because I can't viably play my main; she just couldn't function against these ADCs who were flatly better than her mid game.

I don't understand where you get the idea that ADCs are abusing this item or that they're going to nerf it; I don't feel like they are. And tbh, I hope that they don't because they nerfed Youmuu's into the ground already and made it an item unviable on any ADCs that weren't going full lethality. I used to like Youmuu's as a pocket pick for Tristana because the active worked well with her Q and it gave her a shitton of stats she needed for making it through the mid game; Armor Pen, AS, AD, and CDR so she could use her Q even more often.

LOSINGISMYPRIDE1 votes

the same goes for tank so i think its a really fair item for more dueling adc like lucian , ezreal or draven . [slayer-jinx-wink]

Smitty Manjensen1 votes

Botrk not being balanced? Any other news? That item was broken since it came out, probably impossible to fix.

AirKingNeo3 votes

It's no longer a duelist item with the no more heal on active. Pretty balanced now.

Ok sure but why1 votes

"And now that BoRK is ruined, we need to buff Irelia and Xin, and only these two champs"

1995 2017RiP Eva1 votes

you believe in riot way too much if you think they even gonna bother buffing champions for destroying and item...buffing a champion because of their mistake with btrk is like saying that they mess up! and they never do that they always pretend that they always right and now what the doing...which have be prooved wrong all the time see lethality see morde see malz see ca see what ever

LawUrDepravdHart2 votes

{quoted}

you believe in riot way too much if you think they even gonna bother buffing champions for destroying and item...buffing a champion because of their mistake with btrk is like saying that they mess up! and they never do that they always pretend that they always right and now what the doing...which have be prooved wrong all the time see lethality see morde see malz see ca see what ever

Riot has reverted unhealthy changes (reverting the kog maw kit) or responded to the community's complaints (hot-fixing aatrox last friday following complaints of him being weak on the forums). They are responsive to their player base more so than most other games... How many other games can you list that come out with patches every two weeks? They took away solo/duo queue for a long period of time... but then they brought it back because of player demand. Your proclamations that they "never" admit their mistakes and "always pretend" that they are right are completely false.

Bisaknosp1 votes

why did they even buff lucian he wasnt even weak i mean it werent the greatest buffs but still.. the only adc i can think of that is in need of buffs is tristana

ForgiveColour2 votes

"Lucian buffs"

Aight

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

It was an obvious QoL improvement. A tiny reduction in cast time on one or two abilities is hardly a buff. That's like saying ".2 mana/s more is a buff!" It's technically correct, but, in this instance, technically correct isn't the best kind of correct.

ScissorsNstuff1 votes

who said that bork was perfectly balanced? Also it WAS balanced back before they decided to mess with every other item including its direct counter

item 3143

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