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20 Mana cost increase boys 20 MANA COST INCREASE

1995 2017RiP Eva··66 votes·3,776 views

Lucian The most broken ADC atm huge pick ratio and good win ratio too (remember lee sin? same thing)

Everyone from pro to bronze agree that he need nerfs

What pro have say that make him powerfull

A the no cast animation that allow him to do his abilities faster than he should riot should revert that buff

B his Ulti range and minion wave clear is way too good and strong and the range is too big and gets a very good synergy wth BC

C his double shot passive that allow him to outrade any other ADC without an effort

D His mobility that got further buffed with BTRK

So what is riot gonna nerf ?

They ADD 20 extra mana cost on his Q RANK 5

YAY

And the best part? it was +30 but they though that it was too harsh so they you know they drop it to 20!

That riot balance for you i guess he is selling many skins atm so we cant actually balance the game we gotta wait till he is not selling skins so riot can actually nerf him!

139 Comments

Rewt19 votes

item 1400 5 ad

Ashen Rider9 votes

JarvanIV 2 armor

Darksun Dragoon9 votes

Vayne 3 ad

AirKingNeo1 votes

Kayle 5 AD

Nerfed because of Devourer, then not buffed after it's removed. Balance at it's finest.

Mizaya15 votes

They're just trying to push him towards Essence Reaver. Honestly a buff to that item combined with the upcoming bork nerfs and maybe it'll happen.

Skins Project8 votes

SHHHHHH

Bringing logic to Circle-jerks is going to get you burned at the stake!

LordGeovanni1 votes

If they wanted to push him too a crd and mana based item they would make his combo unviable at base cooldown due to cdr and make his spells cost real amounts of mana but then ne would be the only ranged champion like that except current Lissandra

Ralanr4 votes

Thing is, Lucy is a lane bully so they don't want to weaken his power before items.

Doodlzzz7 votes

similar pattern with a ton of other OP champs Ivern tiny nerf that didn't do much LeeSin negligible nerf to R damage Ahri AP ratios away from W and ult but compensation buff on E makes her nerf minor

and now dis

1995 2017RiP Eva10 votes

At least Lee got some MS nerf some CDR nerf and a damage nerf which all together are some NERFS

increasing 20 mana cost on an ADC that would effect when the adc is LVL 9...its just nothing its like nothing..

MIC Cavalry5 votes

I don't think you realize how important mana is for Lucian early on, going OOM much quicker requires him to build ER early. That's a huge change to his early game power, BoTRK is the biggest part of Lucians power right now, if he doesn't build it early then his early game power drops significantly.

I'll still go the build I've been going, which is BoTRK > zeal item >ER > IE

Fondling Gems50 votes

I like how often people critique nerfs such as the Lee Sin movespeed changes + slight ult CD change, acting like Riot has no idea what they are doing. Lets just ignore that Lee had an almost 3% drop in winrate from those changes.

At least let the changes go through before screaming.

As a side note Ahri changes went like this>

W 10% less AP scaling, across all 3 fires (which hit at 30% damage on additional bolts at the same target). That is 30% less AP scaling across 3 targets, 23% Less scaling across 2, and 16% less Ap scaling vs a single target.

R: 5% less AP scaling, across her 3 bolts, which fire 3 times. Up to 3 bolts can hit one target meaning that her ult caused a 15-45% AP scaling drop depending on the number of targets.

E: 10% AP scaling increase on the ability with 1.5 - 2.4 times the CD of W

In a full rotation of her spells Ahri lost 21% AP scaling vs a single target. In team fights she lost 65% AP scaling lost. Over a 10 second rotation of all of her abilities (So 2 Foxfires) she lost 27-95% AP scaling depending on the number of targets.

Just because it feels like a small nerf does not make it a small nerf.

Think about how frequently Lucian goes OOM in lane, it is very often for an ADC, especially if they spam. They use Q anywhere from 2-5+ times in a bit fight, most bot lane fights early on are 2-3 unless they are very short trades. hitting the mana cost means he can use it less, which means less waveclear and less bullying. That means he can't capitalize are strongly on won trades, and pushing him in hurts him a lot as he has to burn even more mana just to keep up, and as well already covered he burns more mana than just about any other adc.

Hitting him in the mana hits him exactly where he needs it, but hurting his flexibility and limiting his ability to trade all the time. Lucian is meant to deal damage, that is fine. By limiting his mana pool you keep lucian strong in terms of power, but hit his laning phase quite hard and give incentive for him to go down the essence reaver path which weakens his laning phase further as well as focusing him around the mid-late game more so he can't run away with games so early.

CØulrophobia3 votes

They are just going to rush a E.R. on Lucian to compensate, and Ahri nerf reinforces LichTech build. Because Less AP ratios= more AA to kill target early.

OyddAWqJ5r8 votes

Which are in turn a weaker and stronger build respectively which if they are building those the majority of the time that would mean the nerfs were meaningful and made an impact on their performance.

E.R. has a cost and is a major setback to his most effective build. So that'd be great if he had to build it.

Wheatloaf7 votes

Reinforcing ER while nerfing his current BorK/BC build was actually the point of the change, since one build is out of line and the other isn't used.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

still a net nerf

Wheatloaf2 votes

It's still a net nerf, but so long as it increases the strength of his ER build path relative to his current one, it does what they set out to do. Even better, it differentiates the two paths more sharply - ER will give him plenty of spell-slinging, as per usual, while BorK/BC will allow him fewer casts, but more powerful ones.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

Definitely a better Lucian overall agreed.

Wheatloaf2 votes

Praise be unto tradeoffs in build paths \o/

Funkin Dunkin1 votes

A 3% drop could also just be a natural drop from playing habits. 3% isn't enough to say squat about jack.

Fondling Gems2 votes

A 3% drop after very few changes in his winrate for quite a while and with no nerfs to the items he uses. Considering there wasn't much else that would have impacted him that patch other than Zac getting overbuffed I would say that it is safe to say his nerfs were responsible.

You generally don't see 3% drops in winrates after a general positive trend in a champ for the past few patches and attribute it to other stuff that wouldn't have directly affected him instead of the direct nerfs he received.

Baron of Bread1 votes

Actually it is pretty big, especially considering how popular Lee Sin is. A 50% win rate is a fine champion, but a 47% winrate is a bad champion in a lot of people's eyes.

woodvsmurph1 votes

But you need to factor in how many 0 skill players picked lee up because he was THE OP jungler according to YouTube and streamers. These guys tend to underperform on the new champ they pick up and deflate it's winrate even if the champ is overtuned. Only when the champ is undeniably FREELO broken does winrate increase despite many new low skill players picking up the champ. That is when you see Riot stepping in right away with a hotfix.

Glory ln Death2 votes

But there was no sudden increase in play rate... There wasn't a huge influx of new Lee players that would have pulled his winrate down. The nerfs are the only major change that could explain the sudden drop.

FilDaFunk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lIeAnAup,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-05-24T06:33:18.983+0000)

R: 5% less AP scaling, across her 3 bolts, which fire 3 times. Up to 3 bolts can hit one target meaning that her ult caused a 15-45% AP scaling drop depending on the number of targets.

Linear scaling doesn't change proportion of AP lost (R hits one target with one bolt).

Fondling Gems1 votes

That is why I provided the damage as X-X% where first X is total loss vs one target and second is total loss when hitting 3 targets.

FilDaFunk1 votes

Ah, I thought you meant proportion of damage lost that was from AP, not just pure point damage of AP (so if it hit 20 targets, there'd be 300% AP scaling drop).

Apologies.

Fondling Gems1 votes

No worries, just a simple misunderstanding.

devdev4637 votes

Mana is a gate that limits how much a champion can do. This effects everything about lucian... He uses Q a LOT so 20 mana is significant. Will this be enough to knock him out of meta? Who knows, but this is a good nerf and I think you should think about why a little more.

GULAG 4 U2 votes

Op doesn't like thinking. He also said all the nerfs on Yasuo were pulled off when they only reverted E.

Cosmic Warper7 votes

I don't think you realize what 20 mana does to his Q. His Q has a very low cooldown and fuels his damage combo because as long as its up his passive is up, and his passive fuels his E reset. Using Q twice is an extra 40 mana, and on a low mana regen champ it adds up if he uses it too often during and before a fight. Mana cost nerfs for low cooldown abilities are bigger than people think.

Packun Flower4 votes

Are you honestly surprised?

1995 2017RiP Eva11 votes

To be honest yeah because meddler was saying 2 patches 2 PATCHES ago that lucian is problematic and they are gonna nerf his ulti and some of his kit

And now all they did was 20 MANA COST this is joke...

Packun Flower4 votes

Well you shouldn't be.

Riot is notorious for pulling 180's.

PB4UAME5 votes

Especially with their pet champions and ADCs in particular.

General Esdeath 5 votes

It wouldn't be a Riot patented change without some sort of catch to it.

ModAcademy Kayn4 votes

No, they said they were looking at possibly nerfing his ult. They did not promise to nerf anything in particular, they said what they were thinking about hitting.

Tobias Brackner4 votes

I'm of the mind that people gotta git gud.

Sugar Momma4 votes

Lucian isn't that far off from balanced atm, his win rate is only a bit above 50%; he is just played far too much.

He might need more than just this nerf, but Riot has gone too far with Lucian and made him trash-tier FAR too many times before (which isn't fair either).

MIC Cavalry3 votes

If he's played far too much, that isn't grounds for a nerf.

God forbid Riot suceeds at making a champion that's fun to play and feels rewarding.

Spârky2 votes

Jhin Jhin Jhin Jhin

2Charmnot2Charm3 votes

They are pushing him to building ER [zombie-brand-facepalm]

If you nerf a champ's mana cost their builds will be less flexible because they have to build something to offset the mana they are going to burn through.

woodvsmurph2 votes

Higher mana cost does sound like a solid solution to begin with - how much increase, I don't know. But increasing the mana cost and/or dropping his mana regen value mean's he can't mindlessly spam spells forever and he does lose much of his power when he runs out of mana. Thus Riot reinforces the sivir build - triple crit, armor pen, and lifesteal with essence reaver being a must as one of your crit items

HaIlMonitor2 votes

They are double nerfing him though if the bork changes go through. So he will be nerfed pretty hard imo.

BoilTheOil2 votes

honestly the mana increase is quite a bit since he spams the spell so much

coldwingzz1 votes

Let me explain something, Go look at the Damn botrk changes, then tell me it was a small nerf. This nerf to 20 mana was unwarranted and just gates luc more and more, not to mention hes only strong because of the botrk item. That item gets nerfed, then luc gets nerfed. Same shit happens to every champion, with the changes to botrk I imagine luc is going to be the weakest if not the second weakest marksmen in the game. Looks like your just a low elo player, thatdoesn't understand how to face him and if you go ahead and do what you did to show he's op then go ahead and do that to every champion. Cassiopeia INSANE DPS, HEALING ON Q NO COOLDOWN, HER W MAKES IT SO YOU CANT MOVE AND OMG HER POISON MAKES HER INSANE PLUS HER ULT IS SO EASY TO HIT AOE STUN OP OP. Alistar HE HAS SOOO MUCH CC SO MANY STUNS AND KNOCKUPS YOU CANT HIT HIM HES OP NOT TO MENTION HIS ULT MAKES HIM IMPOSABLE TO KILL AND TAKES AWAY CROWD CONTROL, PLUS HE HAS A HEAL THAT HE SPENDS NO MANA TO USE OP OP OP! Circle jerk more boards padawan.

1995 2017RiP Eva1 votes

First i am higher than you you pathetic goldie...(Which is silver because you are gold 3..) so have some respect

Second 20 mana cost would drop lucian to Kalista/Urgot lvl?

Do this game a favor and quit league of legends it would be better for the game

King of Demons2 votes

Holy shit did you just use your low elo to make an argument? Lmao

coldwingzz1 votes

Mind you this was a smurf I use for meme's and dreams. Get with the program buddy ;) also posted this when the botrk nerf was making botrk deal half dmg for ranged champions.

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