"We Are gonna nerf yasuo/lucian/btrk" 2 uptades later all nerfs reverted..

1995 2017RiP Eva··71 votes·2,688 views

Seriously riot?

You think the problem with lucian is the Q mana cost? or the fact that he can prock 2 times the btrk for 16% of your current hp...you think is not the insta cast animation after you people took away his cast animations...

Now the 20 mana increase would sure solve the problems.....

Btrk you think the problem is the life steal? or the fact that it can be abused frome every ADC better than anyone because it provide massive damage and life steal and kite and % hp damage maybe that the problem you go for nerfing to a normal nerf that would actually stop ADC abusing it to "meh we gonna pretend we nerf it"

Yasuo why the E revert? everyone agree that yasuo needed that nerf..but no..let keep him banned for ever in rank games because riot refuse to nerf him..but then again new skin is on the way so...yeah...

67 Comments

Sraeg201318 votes

or the fact that he can prock 2 times the btrk for 16% of your current hp...

Technically, that's not how it works.

The Deckowner8 votes

8% + (8% * 92%)=15.36%

Just in case if people are wondering.

Sinlaire1 votes

*IF the fight starts with the enemy at 100%.

digits just keep dropping from there and the numbers just skyrocket to tinder date catfish levels of sad.

it's never as good as it looks on paper.

The Deckowner2 votes

OP's original statement said "current hp", and that is what I am using here. double tap will apply BORK effect to do 15.36% of the target's current hp.

Sinlaire1 votes

ah, thanks. for some reason I thought your math was regarding the health of a target at 100% exclusively. not sure how i got that other than somehow knowing that current HP percentages cause you to do progressively less damage on lower health targets and thus progressively less % max hp per hit. making it so i mixed your reduced %hp as max instead of current.

I really shouldn't math when hungry and tired.

Sdars1 votes

No. Less. Armor is a thing and other sources of damage matter too.

ChaosThief4 votes

And this isn't even factoring the auto damage from lucian's auto, because that's just assuming bork is the only damage his autos do.

alfavhunter16 votes

BotRK should be an anti tanky item not a lifesteal hp shred strong ad AS item

what BotRK should look like

item 1043 +item 3101 +item 2015

stinger shard bow AS of +75% deadly shards (unique passive) AAs deal 2% of the targets current hp as physical damage, if the target has more current hp than you this value is tripled stingers poison (unique passive) AAs against the same target increase their damage taken from deadly shards by 20% for 3 seconds up to 100% bonus damage

this is now a tank killer item for AA based champions (which is what blade was supposed to be) but it doesn't offer sustain, a powerful on use effect for kiting, or actual ad. making this item a poor choice for just AAing squishies, but an amazing item vs tanks as it can quickly become a powerful shred of 12% their current hp until theyr hp value is at or below your current hp, then it maxes out at 4%, keeping the item form being over tuned but doing its job of hurting tanky enemies

lulusmeatwallet6 votes

i don't think you realize just how busted that item would be in the hands of an on-hit champion like kayle :P Please RITO make this item.

a very bad nado8 votes

And then inb4 Kayle gets nerfed, LOL.

Fisher No Chains3 votes

And then they nerf the item, but Kayle remains untouched. :^)

Nvm forgot we're not in Season 5 anymore.

PB4UAME2 votes

fun fact, botrk's passive against a 3k hp target is worth almost 4k gold just for the on-hit it adds.

Yours could hit for up to 12% current hp damage which would be worth over 6k gold if it triggered on a target with 3k or more current hp.

Tanks need to actually have some way to survive damage, not be hit for 2 seconds, and then take 12% current hp damage per fucking hit until they are lower than the ADC. A lucian with this and his passive could hit you for almost 36% of your current hp with each auto after a spell if you just had any amount of hp more than him, and he had autoed you and hit you with his passive once or twice before. FUCK THAT

alfavhunter1 votes

{quoted}

fun fact, botrk's passive against a 3k hp target is worth almost 4k gold just for the on-hit it adds.

Yours could hit for up to 12% current hp damage which would be worth over 6k gold if it triggered on a target with 3k or more current hp.

Tanks need to actually have some way to survive damage, not be hit for 2 seconds, and then take 12% current hp damage per fucking hit until they are lower than the ADC. A lucian with this and his passive could hit you for almost 36% of your current hp with each auto after a spell if you just had any amount of hp more than him, and he had autoed you and hit you with his passive once or twice before. FUCK THAT

the item would be made AA only a different form of 'on hit', meaning only basic AAs proc it, even if something other than an AA would proc an on hit effect it shouldn't proc this

and the item offers nothing but the on hit and AS, in which lucian doesnt like AS all that much so thats another balancing factor

but as i stated it can be tuned as well

but BotRK does WAY to much for 1 item, as, ad, on use that is damage, soft CC, AND a self heal, and a passive hp shred in 1 item is to much

an equivalent comparison would be if they combined item 3193 and item 3083 all into 1 item with no stat or passive loss

flibitydoo1 votes

holy guacamole 75% attackspeed Kalista is gonna have a field day with this

alfavhunter1 votes

{quoted}

holy guacamole 75% attackspeed Kalista is gonna have a field day with this

yes, but it offers no AD, no lifesteal, no on use effect

and BotRK would be gone from the game

she would have a lot of AS, but she would have no damage on her AAs vs low hp targets like other adc and such due to the item offering nothing else but an on hit effect that is only truely powerful vs people with lots of hp

flibitydoo1 votes

you do know, that on release, kalista built item 3085

now lemme just point out, that this was years ago, BEFORE THE ADC PATCH AS IN: BEFORE IT HAD ON-HIT DAMAGE OR CRIT

back then, all item 3085 had, was the split arrows, and a whopping 90% attackspeed.

and Kalista would first item this everytime (well, it's kinda obvious since she her kit was intentionally designed to rush this item). because attackspeed is literally the only stat that truely matters, because it means more mobility, more rend, and of course more dps (since she doesn't really care that badly about crit). funnily enough, when the big adc patch came out and they gave the item crit, she kinda dissappeared from play.

alfavhunter1 votes

{quoted}

you do know, that on release, kalista built item 3085

now lemme just point out, that this was years ago, BEFORE THE ADC PATCH AS IN: BEFORE IT HAD ON-HIT DAMAGE OR CRIT

back then, all item 3085 had, was the split arrows, and a whopping 90% attackspeed.

and Kalista would first item this everytime (well, it's kinda obvious since she her kit was intentionally designed to rush this item). because attackspeed is literally the only stat that truely matters, because it means more mobility, more rend, and of course more dps (since she doesn't really care that badly about crit). funnily enough, when the big adc patch came out and they gave the item crit, she kinda dissappeared from play.

and this item would also help put her back into the game from being up to either average or a little op, and then they could tune her accordingly

maybe by reducing her AS growth a little

but while this item will be strong for her, other ADC would have their 'power item' as well

we shouldn't want every adc to build the same items, they should have differences based on how they are played and their strengths vs weaknesses

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

BotRK should be an anti tanky item not a lifesteal hp shred strong ad AS item

what BotRK should look like

item 1043 +item 3101 +item 2015

stinger shard bow AS of +75% deadly shards (unique passive) AAs deal 2% of the targets current hp as physical damage, if the target has more current hp than you this value is tripled stingers poison (unique passive) AAs against the same target increase their damage taken from deadly shards by 20% for 3 seconds up to 100% bonus damage

this is now a tank killer item for AA based champions (which is what blade was supposed to be) but it doesn't offer sustain, a powerful on use effect for kiting, or actual ad. making this item a poor choice for just AAing squishies, but an amazing item vs tanks as it can quickly become a powerful shred of 12% their current hp until theyr hp value is at or below your current hp, then it maxes out at 4%, keeping the item form being over tuned but doing its job of hurting tanky enemies

Wouldn't that actually make it so that you could do up to 66% of someone's current health in physical damage from 2 autos? Since the stinger's poison passive would increase the damage from deadly shards by 20%, that'd be 22%, if they had more % current health than you that'd be tripled into 66%....TBH I would LOVE BORK to go back to being an on-hit item though. Right now it's at this weird middleground between old bork and Bloodthirster(I always viewed BORK as the lifesteal item for on-hit users while Bloodthirster was the AD lifesteal item for crit builds).

Though tbh don't know if I want Kalista to have that high attack speed again. If this item was created, even if you actually meant 26% total HP% damage, she'd be broken with it most likely. Also if it used Kircheis Shard it'd have to have an energized attack passive, so perhaps the stinger's poison could be changed to the energized attack.

alfavhunter1 votes

{quoted}

Wouldn't that actually make it so that you could do up to 66% of someone's current health in physical damage from 2 autos? Since the stinger's poison passive would increase the damage from deadly shards by 20%, that'd be 22%, if they had more % current health than you that'd be tripled into 66%....TBH I would LOVE BORK to go back to being an on-hit item though. Right now it's at this weird middleground between old bork and Bloodthirster(I always viewed BORK as the lifesteal item for on-hit users while Bloodthirster was the AD lifesteal item for crit builds).

Though tbh don't know if I want Kalista to have that high attack speed again. If this item was created, even if you actually meant 26% total HP% damage, she'd be broken with it most likely. Also if it used Kircheis Shard it'd have to have an energized attack passive, so perhaps the stinger's poison could be changed to the energized attack.

the max value of it per AA is 12%

2%X3=6% 6%+100% self value is 12%

your seeing the 20% bonus damage as a +base value instead of multiplier of 120%

the +20/40/60/80/100% damage would double the 2% to 4% after 5 AAs, meaning the 6ths AA would see the 100% bonus to the base value of 2% current hp, this value is trippled if the target has more current hp than you, but the moment the 'tank' gets to your hp level (lets say your at 1500 hp) it will drop to 2-4% damage based on the stingers posion

which would work similar to vayne's silver bolts, change targets and the stacks restart, removing them from the enemy that has them already

AmazoX1 votes

I like how there's more discussion to Botrk than the thread, Lol.

GULAG 4 U8 votes

You ignore the other nerf on Yasuo's Q.

Sraeg20132 votes

And ironically it's the more important of two nerfs. But OP still said "all nerfs reverted", kek.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Checking facts? That's not something the boards can do.

Sraeg20131 votes

Facts? Not really. More like math.

Apparently 2 - 1 = 0.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Math is hard for non Asians meme?

1995 2017RiP Eva2 votes

As i say on my post i talk about the E nerf revert!

Which was needed it would actually stop his mobility and make him more easy to gank him! and it would easier for laners to trade with him when he have a WINDOW before he can use his E again so you wouldnt be missing all your skillshots because he can dash again and again!

Plus it would make it EASIER to run away from him which now you cant if there is a minion wave

That why i say that this NERF should be there!

You filthy yasuo main guess what nobody likes you nobody loves you

Sraeg20131 votes

and it would easier for laners to trade with him when he have a WINDOW before he can use his E again so you wouldnt be missing all your skillshots because he can dash again and again!

With how Sweeping Blade works right now you have 1 second before dashes early assuming you aren't a complete potato at leading skillshots. Adding another 0.5 second wouldn't magically make you able to hit him, if you weren't doing it at least semi-consistently before.

Plus it would make it EASIER to run away from him which now you cant if there is a minion wave

Which wouldn't matter because dashing is still faster than walking? And that's not accounting for the fact that a lot of players are still ranking up the dash first. With this change there is even more incentive to rank it first.

That why i say that this NERF should be there!

You'd still cry Yasuo exists.

You filthy yasuo main

I basically haven't played Yasuo in the past 2 years. Such main. Wow.

guess what nobody likes you nobody loves you

Asking for your love would be the lowest of the low.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Except you said they reverted all nerfs.

He was always easy to gank unless you were playing YI.

archerno17 votes

Well they are nerfing Yasuo Q already. Nerfing E aswell would be too much.

DeadUnborn3 votes

Yea well, with 10 bans incomming you are the one who gets to never pick Yasuo ever again until they nerf something else, so there is that

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

Yea well, with 10 bans incomming you are the one who gets to never pick Yasuo ever again until they nerf something else, so there is that

I played Yasuo twice in my life... Last time a year ago

Yaśuo Main5 votes

Was looking forward to that 0 CD E.

Only Play Darius2 votes

I tried it out on PBE. It feels almost no different late game.

Melledoneus12 votes

You're not pressing E fast enough, then.

KoKoboto4 votes

You're not one with the wind than.

teegorom5 votes

Such coherency, it's hard to tell where the salt ends and the English begins. XD

Only Play Darius3 votes

I knew the reduced damage on ranged autos was too good to be true, guessing there was an uproar in the ADC community.

Sp33d Zer02 votes

4% was just too much. I'd love to see it get a Nerf, but only 6% on ranged

PB4UAME2 votes

Well before the item was busted and used on everyone, it was at 6%.

I think it should honestly be no more than 4% current on ranged. Especially with fucking bullshit like Lucian triple procing the damned thing.

ADCs can get 2.0 attacks a second with little difficulty if they have an inbuilt AS steroid and a fairly normal build. Do they really need to be hitting for ~16% of your current hp/sec, in addition to the extra damage they get from the AS and AD on it, and the fuck tons of lifesteal it provides (which, conveniently also heals for the on-hit) and the anti-kiting active? Is 12%/sec that much worse when its 6 times better than Liandry's base effect?

Honestly, I never want to see it anywhere above 10%, which at 4% and 2.5 aa/sec you can still reach 10% current hp shred/sec without factoring in literally any fucking other source of damage, just the damned thing's passive And guess what, Lucian would still be able to use a spell, and hit you for 12% current hp-- it just wouldn't be the almost 24% he gets on live which is fucking disgusting as all hell.

Remember, the spell version of this is 2% current hp per second for 3 seconds. Additional damage also only reapplies this effect where as ADCs get the whole amount (currently 4 times higher) instantly, and without literally any damage lose from reapplying it.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

Lucian double procs it. Very few ADC's build 2.5 as. Armor just got buffed to give more, reducing the % hp damage. HP values got lowered, reducing the % hp damage. The spell version gives spell pen, which bork does not, meaning it also improves burst damage and gives a little extra to the sutained damage. Also, 16% current hp/sec is innacurate, after the first one, the second shot drops by .64% of where there HP currently was. 100 * .92 *.92 =/= 100 - 8 -8.

PB4UAME3 votes

Lucian double procs it.

This is the only thing you are right about in your comment, but thank you for the correction. For some reason I was under the assumption that his passive was 2 hits scaling for 20%/25%/30% AD, but now I see its just one for 40%/50%/60% AD. He still absolutely abuses on-hit itemization when its paired with physical damage, but it's a little tiny bit less bullshit.

Very few ADC's build 2.5 as.

Great? I talk about 2.5as only one time to show the max possible from a 4% BotRK, and to show how ludicrously strong 4% current hp as a passive which is priced at less than 200g fucking is. RIOT blatantly and egregiously undervalues % hp damage and how fucking strong it is.

The rest is based on "ADCs can get 2.0 attacks a second with little difficulty if they have an inbuilt AS steroid and a fairly normal build." which is absolutely true at 4-6 items.

Armor just got buffed to give more, reducing the % hp damage.

Because ADCs never get armor pen, right? And the armor pen item that was just buffed, LDR, totally doesn't also increase the damage BotRK's on-hit does. Additionally with items like Stoneplate tanks have been itemizing for more health, particularly in teamfights, which causes, guess what? More damage than before, not less. Not to mention, the armor values were barely even increased in the first place.

The spell version gives spell pen, which bork does not, meaning it also improves burst damage and gives a little extra to the sutained damage.

You mean like how you get lifesteal on BotRK and a nuke + anti-kiting active that has no parallel on the spell version? You have attack speed, on BotRK as well as attack and it's passive for sustained damage, you have attack damage and its passive and its active for burst, plus it even has a better build path AND multiplicative scales off the rest of the ADC's itemization instead of having direct anti-synergy in the case of Liandry's.

Fuck, give Liandry's an active and spell vamp, and CDR then we can talk about how BotRK doesn't have a bit of flat armor pen.

Also, 16% current hp/sec is innacurate, after the first one, the second shot drops by .64% of where there HP currently was. 100 .92 .92 =/= 100 - 8 -8.

Notice I had put "~" before the 16%? That's an important part, you can't just ignore because you feel like it. I literally cannot do any actual math as we don't have as information as I would need just to figure out how much damage they would hit for in addition to the Blade hit, let alone what sort of mitigation and hp pool we are even talking about. It's still 8% current hp two times, but it is different from 16% of the hp at the start.

Blåbæret2 votes

Don't care about Yasuo. He's permabanned in my elo. Lucian however, is an annoying prick.

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

{quoted}

[...]

Btrk you think the problem is the life steal? or the fact that it can be abused frome every ADC better than anyone because it provide massive damage and life steal and kite and % hp damage maybe that the problem you go for nerfing to a normal nerf that would actually stop ADC abusing it to "meh we gonna pretend we nerf it"

[...]

Some problem here. ADCs do not abuse BotrK. Abuse would mean they are using an item that is not intended for their subclass. That is not the case here. I know there are many people who want BotrK to be an melee only item. But Riot clearly has other intentions for it.

Quote from Meddler about the topic:

We'll be nerfing Lucian a bit. We think it's appropriate that BotRK is a strong item on some ADCs and that was one of its original intended goals that the recent changes to it were meant to reinforce.

BotrK is absolutely intended to be bought by marksmen and even intended as a core item for marksmen like these: Twitch Vayne Kalista

So please stop abusing the term abuse if that clearly is not the case.

1995 2017RiP Eva2 votes

Draven Ezreal Lucian Varus Tristana Jinx Xayah and every other ADC champion right now abuse it and doign great with it the only adc that dosent is Jhin

So yeah my bad dude i guess is not an abuse case when the 90% of the adc use it...ok

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

BotrK is too strong, no one is questioning that. But it is still no case of abuse if marksmen, who are intended to buy it and Riot themselves even said that making it a good early item for them was the goal of the changes, use it.

Making a split between melee and ranged just doesn't feel right for me here. Why should an item which is meant as a powerspike for a subclass be weaker if it is bought by exact the subclass it is meant for?

That would be like creating a new tank item which is giving additional health, but the health you get is decreased based on the amount of armor you have.

Statikk Succ 1 votes

I'm fine if they revert the Lucian cast time buff tbh (as a Lucian main) but this mana cost change on q is gonna make him feel so clunky and it's gonna take a while to get used to a +30 cost at rank 5

WDG Devour1 votes

What mana cost change?

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

They are testing a nerf for Lucian on the PBE, the mana cost of his Q at rank 5 got increased from 70 to 100.

HeresyUntoFedex5 votes

{quoted}

I'm fine if they revert the Lucian cast time buff tbh (as a Lucian main) but this mana cost change on q is gonna make him feel so clunky and it's gonna take a while to get used to a +30 cost at rank 5

In what world does a mana cost increase on a poke spell equal clunky?

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