A brief history of Ardent Censor, but first my opinion. Also Idk why I typed this.

Final Spark Lux··10 votes·686 views

Life on hit is just too strong. Okay, I said my piece. All the support mains can downvote me now. I'll also downvote myself since I'm a support main. Wouldn't wanna betray my people.

All I know is nobody ever complained about ardent in the past, but after 6.22 when life on hit was introduced, the nonstop QQ ensued. Not sure why we don't just revert the changes, or remove the life on hit all together. It's still a good item without it, it just means your ADC isn't going to be healing as if he has 250 dmg with vamp scepter without having to spend a single gold to get that healing.

To anyone unaware, here's some info about it in the past;

V4.10 Added

Recipe: item 3114 + item 3113 + Gold 550 = Gold 2200. +30 ability power, +10 mana regeneration, +10% cooldown reduction. Unique Passive: 8% movement speed. Unique Passive: Your heals and shields on another unit grant them 25% attack speed for 6 seconds. This does not include regeneration effects or effects on yourself.

Received its on-hit damage later, omitting a few minor stat changes;

V5.10

Buff affect only champions. Attack speed buff reduced to 15% from 30%. Buffed champions deals +30 on-hit magic damage.

And then things started to go downhill in 6.22

V6.22

Combine cost reduced to Gold 600 from Gold 700. Total cost reduced to Gold 2300 from Gold 2400. Healing and shielding power reduced to 10% from 15%. Passive: Bonus attack speed increased to 20% from 15%. On-hit damage reduced to 20 from 30, now heals allies for 20 health.

Not sure why they decided to buff it in 7.2;

V7.2

Bonus attack speed on heals and shields increased to 20% - 35% (based on level) from 20%. Attack health drain on-hit on heals and shields increased to 20 - 35 (based on level) from 20.

Which brings us to the preset, where they tried to band-aid fix it;

V7.17

Bonus attack speed changed to 25% at all levels from 20% - 35% (based on level). On-hit magic damage and healing changed to 25 at all levels from 20 - 35 (based on level).

In my opinion, the healing should just be removed. Nobody ever complained about its damage in the past because the damage was never thought to be a problem. The healing is what made it over the top. Just think of how many auto attacks an ADC throws in a level 6~ fight. Now times that number by 25, and that's how much healing you have for an ADC who's average health pool around that level is give or take 1k. It really adds up, and can easily turn a fight in your favor.

In summation, I have no idea why I typed all of this, and it really doesn't matter because I don't believe riot reads any of these posts anyways. It really doesn't matter what happens because I don't have a say in it. I had fun formatting this though. Look at all those block quotes. It looks good, is easy to follow, and made me feel like I accomplished something even though I haven't. People should really use those more.

HF abusing ardent (especially on Lucian whos passive can proc it twice)

27 Comments

Hexs Fortune2 votes

I feel item 3504 is just the item of the month everyone wants to complain about.

Final Spark Lux2 votes

Not complaining, this has just been rolling around in my mind for a while. I've just been hesitant to say anything because posting your opinion on the boards and not expecting a slew of downvotes is fairly pointless most of the time. All I know is nobody claimed OP before they added the healing to it.

Winterwings2 votes

Technically speaking, it was considered "Trash-tier" before healing was added to it... and even then it was still overshadowed by item 3107 item 3190 ...

Once those two items got sort of "seperated", people realized just how good Ardent really is (ONLY when you have the perfect Marksman to make use of its passive tho) so yeah...

Final Spark Lux1 votes

I disagree. It was a niche item, and very few people bought it, but that doesn't mean it was as bad as you claim. The whole point of it was supposed to give a little extra power on shield / heal if you were ahead and could sacrifice something else in favor of this.

Regardless, there were other paths that could have been taken to buff the item if riot really felt it was in a bad spot. They didn't even try buffing the damage / AS / AP / healing %. They just tacked an on-hit heal with the equivalent healing of 8.3 culls, or 250 damage at 10% lifesteal, which is pretty rridiculous. You don't need your ADC to be smart. They right click. Implying you need a skilled ADC to utilize ardent is nonsense, and infact backwards logic. If your ADC is an idiot, it's even more reason to build the item, since it'll keep them alive longer while they're doing dumb things, just because they're right clicking.

Winterwings1 votes

I did say it was - CONSIDERED - trash tier... i did not say that was my own opinion back then or now...

IMHO Ardent was fine even before on hit heal was added to it, and my statement that you need a "perfect marksman" to make use of it was more implying onto ADC Champions that can make good use (or abuse) of passive on hit rather than the skill level of the player behind said champion.

Final Spark Lux1 votes

-nods- Okay I understand now what you meant.

Winterwings2 votes

The one true problem with Ardent is that it is ENTIRELY relegated to supporting the Marksman (Yes, im going to use that term and not the 'ADC') ... With the notable exceptions being some attack speed based melee champions...

I wouldn't mind it losing out the horrid bonus-stat-stick-slapped-onto-heals-and-shields effect that benefits a very limited pool of champions the most, if it were to get something that is more... Universaly useful for every class...

But, that's just my 2 cents on the topic

Sincerely, a Ardent Cancer abuser :D

Maddened King 2 votes

[deleted]

LostFr0st1 votes

They upped the cdr by 10 and the cost by 100. I don't expect that to do anything.

Mig892 votes

It is going to make a difference. You can get eye extremely quickly and its the primary build path anyway/ 100g is not a big jump for 10 extra CDR. Im a Zyra main when it comes to solo q and getting the extra plants out will make a difference. Support mages are all about base damages so any CDR increase is going to be a big buff.

LostFr0st1 votes

Won't it just make her go near half mana faster? Once the enemy gets item 3504 the enemy AD will just always be on full health anyways from the on-hit heal.

I guess a good Zyra one-shots anyways though lol.

Mig892 votes

As zyra, it means i can put more seeds down and zone the enemy off the wave easier. seeds dont cost money, they give vision, and theyre a big fuck you to anyone nearby. When im playing zyra ill spawn seeds in front of my adc farming so if a hook comes i can block it. Its just gonna make my laning stronger and mid-late game I no longer have to buy any cdr items. I can go item 2301 item 3020 item 3116 item 3151 item 3135 then item 3512 / item 3190 / any other defenseive item. The build gives me good amount of health and resists, strong damage to anyone (basically true damage to squishies and the rylais burn actually damages tanks) and some pushing power if needs be. Ill end up with 35CDR because of ten from runes and 5 from masteries. Before this change Id look for more CDR in my last two items but I dont have to anymore.

LostFr0st1 votes

I gotchu. Yeah, this ^ write-up combined with Maddened King's below has me convinced now. Hope you guys have fun <3 ( 'cause I know the enemy AD won't be :P )

Maddened King 2 votes

[deleted]

LostFr0st1 votes

I like your argument, especially the bit about the access to cdr at full build. 'Tis very logical and contains stuff I overlooked; I appreciate how clear it is^^

I really hope it shakes up bot lane. Less nap time is more fun.

Nahui1 votes

It's not just that, it's also the 60 AP. It makes Janna Soraka and Lulu way too strong with an item that makes their ADC basically unkillable.

Final Spark Lux5 votes

I personally don't think its the AP that makes it the problem. Supports have always had access to AP, and I've never seen QQ on the forums because a support built item 1058. The healing is the problem here.

Nahui1 votes

It's the combination of it all. It's not the 60 AP. It's that along with healing power and on hit life drain, it also gives 60 AP. If this item gave the original 30 AP and kept its current stats, it would be just good. But the 30 AP gives that much more shield or heal value further scaled higher by the healing shielding power. So, in turn, the item gives more than 60AP worth of healing.

Not saying the AP is the main thing. It's that it's part of the reason.

Final Spark Lux2 votes

Again, nobody complained about the item before it had life on hit. They changed it to 60 AP a while back, before on hit was ever introduced, and also increased it's cost;

V6.13

Combine cost reduced to Gold 700 from Gold 800. Total cost increased to Gold 2400 from Gold 2200. Ability power increased to 60 from 40. Base mana regeneration reduced to 50% from 100%. New Passive: +15% bonus healing and shielding power.

Using Janna as an example. She has 240 base shield with a .7 ratio at rank 5. If we do some simple math, and assume she has no other healing buffs / AP from any other sources because we're talking purely about the item here, it comes out to 287.1 if the item had 30 AP, and 310.2 with 60 in it's current state.

That's a difference of 23.1 between having 30 and 60 AP. That means at 30 AP, as long as the ADC lands 2 autos, they've actually gained more effective health through the passive over Janna's shield at 60 AP than they have at 30. The AP can be built from many different items, and the healing increase may sound like a lot, but if you're building redemption, it doesn't stack with it anyways, and becomes null. Even if redemption isn't build, the increase is negligible, and still doesn't overcome the on-hit healing the passive that this item provides.

You could remove all AP entirely off the item, and it would still give more effective health in 3 autos than the 60 AP does. This is made worse by the fact that certain supports and ADC's already have AS steroids built into their kits. The AP isn't the problem. Supports investing into AP to increase their shielding potential makes sense. Giving an on hit heal that's stronger than AP to increase the shield doesn't.

In summation, the AP still isn't the problem, and the on hit heal is. Again, nobody ever complained or thought it was broken until after on hit was added. It's the problem that needs to be dealt with. Nerfing it's AP into the ground would quite literally do nothing.

dreadnoughtus011 votes

I'm... fine with that, actually.

Enchanters already have two sources of extra healing, Athene and Redemption, anyway.

Lewd Neeko1 votes

I wouldn't mind reverts. Geez Riot, buffing items that I buy/champs that I play (Cho'Gath) and turning them into noticeable problems makes me feel bad for buying/using them, even though it's not like I just hopped on the OP bandwagon >.>

LostFr0st1 votes

Yeah, Twitch healing on-hit immediately from 850 range isn't very fun.

Arakadia1 votes

You forget to mention how much he heals on hit and that he only has 850 range with his ult.

That is not the reason ardent is flawed.

LostFr0st1 votes

I'm just saying that before ardent you could pile him and he'd die; now he seems to squeak by with scummy health amounts and then heal up as he murders everyone. That extra 25 Hp per auto adds up.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Also I think you forgot how they added +30 AP to the item itself at one point, and then when heal/shield powers were first introduced. Might need to throw those in just in case, because it had mostly buffs ever since season 4. Now to the real topic...

"Life drain", on-hit, or attackspeed. At least ONE of them has to go. Or make it give only attackspeed OR on-hit. Being able to "lifesteal" should be something champs get on their own, not something spoonfed by their supports for much cheaper. That's probably the biggest issue because the shield bonus gave so much; they turned any ADC into late-game mode with a single item.

Another good thing to note is that even without the passive, the stats alone gave a LOT. Not gonna go into the calculations of how gold efficient Ardent is by stats alone, but I remember it was something >130%. A good suggestion is to either trim the heal/shield power even more, or trim the AP down to 40. It should be THE item for enchanters, but it gave too much: both from the item alone and the shield bonus passive.

Just throwing my thoughts here and there since I've also built and used Ardent since release here and there.

Final Spark Lux1 votes

I just don't see the AP as a problem. It could have no AP, and as far as I'm concerned it would still be considered a strong item because the pure stats it gives to your ally. 20 AP being gone isn't going to change the amount of power an ADC receives early game. Just think about the numbers. Even if someone had a 1:1 ratio shield, the difference between 40 AP and 60 AP is 20 shield. Meanwhile, you still heal for more than that off one hit on someone.

That's why I think they should just remove the on hit life. It can still be a decent item without being over the top. Lanes that are ahead could still take the time to invest in it to push their lead further, though it would no longer be mandatory to rush, and could be omitted altogether if you had plans to build something else. The healing is what makes it over the top.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Yeah, AP isn't really the problem, but it does do a little trimming on how too good Ardent is gold efficient wise.

I've proposed about "reverting" to the point where they only gave attackspeed and it already filled a good niche.

More from Gameplay

More by Final Spark Lux