@RIOT; Please confirm if Lux + Electrocute working as intended

Final Spark Lux·Nov 8, 2017·32 votes·7,449 views

Lux isn't able to proc electrocute with her E + Auto + Passive damage, which in the past has always been 3 unique sources of damage. Also doesn't work for phase rush either. Can someone confirm this is working as intended?

Also please don't downvote just because you don't like Lux. I'm just here to hopefully get an answer. You'd be doing the same if an interaction on your main changed.

Edit: Thanks for the responses everyone, though I hope a red will still take a look at this so we have a definitive answer from riot. Thanks again :)

2nd Edit: I've submitted a ticket into riot. Hopefully we'll get a concrete response.

3rd Edit: I've received a reply from a rioter by the name of Skiwi. Apparently the change is intentional, though I am curious as to why. I shall attempt to find out. I feel like I'm writing a journal entry.

52 Comments

Titanium70Nov 8, 201715 votes

Yes that's how it should be. Enhanced AA's of any kind will no longer count as two procs for Elec or Phase Rush.

That's the point of Unquie - you need to apply 3 active instances of DMG.

Stevev45Nov 8, 20173 votes

Unless you're Bard, Lulu, or Lucian then you can use 2 active instances of DMG

Titanium70Nov 8, 20172 votes

Oh interesting - that Lulu would work was obvious. But Bard? Didn't expect that - good to know.

MhihnjNov 9, 20171 votes

bard's chimes hit slightly after the AA.

Chembaron YamadaNov 8, 20172 votes

To be fair, Bard has exactly 1 damaging ability (Q). He doesn't have as many options to proc it anyway, so it feels fair that he can proc it with just Q + AA.

Stevev45Nov 8, 20175 votes

I guess if you like to play Bard it feels fair. If you play Lux if feels like the keystone doesn't even have a set a rules it just has a list of champions that RIOT decided it should work for.

Chembaron YamadaNov 8, 20173 votes

Look at their options, buddy.

Lux has 2 base skills (3 with ult) to proc her Electrocute. Hit your snare, then your E is guaranteed anyway and you AA. Quick burst with Electrocute proc.

Now look at Bard's options. He has 1 skill (ult included!) that helps him proc it. If you land your Q, you can AA and get the proc as fast as Lux. However, if that doesn't work then he has to Q + AA + AA. And that is lengthening the time requirement quite alot, Bard doesn't AA that fast.

Both should land their CC for that proc and both can nearly instantly get the Electrocute afterwards.

Stevev45Nov 8, 20175 votes

TL was fine the way it was. By making it harder to proc, they just greatly reduced the number of champions who can proc it reliably. Now they are going to have a an even harder time balancing electrocute since its user base is going to be very niche. They will have to make it balanced for the small sub set champions that can trivialy proc it, making it useless on champions that have to invest a lot in proc'ing it. There aren't that many keystone relative to champions so it doesn't make sense to have nitch keystones.

Chembaron YamadaNov 8, 20173 votes

Many mages who are interested in proccing it oftenly have a CC spell to guarantee their combo anyway. And I prefer that version over an Electrocute that gets procced just by Gangplank's ult or Morgana's W. :/

The keystone doesn't have to be strong for every champion in existence. The other keystons aren't either.

Stevev45Nov 8, 20171 votes

we'll see.

Axolotl DreamsNov 9, 20171 votes

It's still two instances. They don't apply at the same time. Bard throws his attack, and a meep follows after. Lulu throws her attack, and pix throws after.

Lux throws her attack and gets a bonus effect on it.

FedoranNov 8, 20179 votes

Shocking.

(not really it is working as intended)

Stevev45Nov 8, 20174 votes

On PBE they said that was intended.

QuephaNov 8, 20174 votes

it's never counted as 3 unique damage sources thunderlord's did not require unique damage sources, which is why it proc'd thunderlord's the entire point of making electrocute require unique damage sources was to remove many cases where proc'ing thunderlord's was absurdly trivial, like Lux's passive, Morg's pool, Nasus's E, and Gangplank's R.

Final Spark LuxNov 8, 20174 votes

Lux passive is 1 source of damage, Lux auto is 1 source of damage, and Lux E is 1 source of damage. I don't know where you heard that, but they are most definitely 3 unique damage sources. Her passive isn't considered an auto attack, it's considered a spell. Thunderlords required 3 instances of damage, which is what you can achieve with Lux E auto combo. Regardless of how easy it was to proc, nobody ever complained it was broken. Riot never changed it, hotfixed it, or anything. They were fine with it, and so was everyone else. Nobody ever got on the forum and complained it was broken.

Also, electrocute basically wants 3 distinct attacks vs thunderlords just requiring 3 instances of damage no matter where it was from. Something like morg W or nasus E is one cast and applied something akin to a dot while in the pool, which counts as 1 attack, and is why it can't proc it (yes, I am aware it isn't a dot, but I believe it's coded in such a manner). You can still proc electrocute with 3 casts of a single spell if the CD is low enough and the time between them coincides with the internal timer of the keystone. You can even proc it off 3 auto attacks. There are still champs that can proc it like they've always been able to, most notably bard and lulu.

There's no reason it shouldn't still work for Lux. Regardless of its triviality to proc, it's abuse is combated by it's extremely long cooldown with no way to speed its CD along. Meanwhile comet has low CD, reasonable damage, and can have its CD reduced just by landing more spells. So why not use comet if its so good you may ask? I want to be well rounded. I don't enjoy having to go down the sorc tree just because I wanted SOME damage in my build. Here's my build. I get 2 runes that help give a little bit of damage, 2 runes that help me with vision control, and 2 runes to assist my ability to shield / heal others.

Instead I'm being forced to pick between a reliable proc with unreliable damage, or an apparently now unreliable proc for reliable damage if I want damage options in my build while still staying relevant to my team as a support. Basically if I want somewhat reliable (negligible)damage I either need to hit my whole combo, or spec into sorc tree, losing 3 rune spots to mediocre choices over team oriented choices which could actually be useful as a support player. Kind of kills the point of customizability if we're going to be forced into a certain runes.

QuephaNov 8, 20172 votes

Lux passive is not a source of damage at all, Lux's auto attack is the source of damage and her passive is part of it.

People actually did complain about it and Riot didn't like that Thunderlord's was just blandly taken on tons of champions who didn't actually have to commit to a combo of some kind to proc it. The point of Thunderlord's was that if you go big the zap will make you go bigger, but some champions could proc it with a poorly aimed fart.

Final Spark LuxNov 8, 20173 votes

Again not true. If that were the case, it would count Lux autos as Mixed damage. It's clearly marked as a separate spell that does damage. Just because it does damage at the same time an auto hits doesn't mean it's auto damage. It's definitely separate. The only reason the auto matters is because it's what determines if the passive is activated. If riot felt the way you claim they do, they would change all champs with this interaction to electrocute, which they haven't.

Zero Skill TankNov 9, 20171 votes

There's no reason it shouldn't still work for Lux.

Yeah, there is. New rules for TLD/Electrocute where put in place specifically to prevent abuse cases like that. It might still work for Bard and Lulu, but that's most likely because it's more challanging to code their cases - Pix and Meeps can hit different target that the basic attack procing them, so there are cases when they most definitely should apply a stack.

Her passive isn't considered an auto attack, it's considered a spell.

No, it's not. It doesn't apply spell effects, nor it is blocked by spell shields. Illumination applying TLD stack has always been a borderline bug - for example, Power Chord is a spell, and it still never applied a stack.

Final Spark LuxNov 9, 20172 votes

I could say the same things you just said about lux directed at bard and lulu. Just because something doesn't blocked by a spell shield or apply spell effectsdoesn't mean it isn't a spell. You can't claim there's a good reason for it's interaction being removed if another champion has the same exact interaction still intact. Doesn't matter if their passives can hit multiple people, they still do damage the same way Lux's passive does. They hit one spell and right click and can proc it. Nobody complains because it's balanced by a ridiculously long cooldown. No reason she shouldn't have this interaction

GapyboNov 8, 20173 votes

Doesn't work with hextech revolver anymore either. Ability + auto attack with revolver procd thunderlords before.

SalronNov 8, 20173 votes

Passive + Auto counts as one source of dmg since they're both coming from her auto

Stevev45Nov 8, 20172 votes

Well one is coming from the passive and the other is coming from the auto.

SalronNov 8, 20172 votes

Yes but both are essentially coming from the auto since her passive requires autos to proc Sounds weird but thats how the system was changed to be

Stevev45Nov 8, 20174 votes

How about Lucian. He lands an ability right clicks once, and he gets an electrocute proc. Pretty much the same thing, but his passive counts for reasons.

Zero Skill TankNov 9, 20171 votes

Lulu, Bard and Lucian cases are just more difficult to code - the bonus damage proc on their basic attacks can hit different target that the basic attack (if Pix is body blocked, if Bard has enough Meeps or if Lucian's basic attack kills the target), so there are cases when they should apply a stack with new rules. If anything, I'd expect Riot to fix those cases too, not to revive old bugs (although they MIGHT leave an exception for Bard, since he only has one active damaging ability).

PopcornBunniNov 8, 20173 votes

It isn't about sources of damage, its about actions performed which damage. It's working as intended for these kinds of enhanced auto attacks.

That in mind, I think Lulu and Bard autos count as two unique sources, probably because Pix and Meep damage proc after the auto damage, whereas enhanced auto attacks proc their damage all at once.

LightIsMyPathNov 9, 20172 votes

I have the opposite problem as midlane Lux: I want electrolute but the domination tree is so sub par compared to the sorcery one.. I don't like this new system at all for now, it feels like you are forced to use stuff you don't want to get a specific thing. The path restriction feels really awful. Also, this seems like a huge indirect Nerf for Lux's lane, and she was at 47% winrate before patch hits.. Ultimate hat will rebalance things I guess but so here we are again: Play X champion -be forced to run a certain setup to be competitive..

AxzariousNov 10, 20171 votes

Lux seems like one of those champions that doesn't really have any sort of Rune/Mastery combo that really stands out for her this season. It doesn't help that her mana costs are higher than a lot of other mages with similar tools in addition to her waveclear being sub-par. Hell, even her scalings are a little lacking compared to a few other stoo.

LightIsMyPathNov 10, 20171 votes

I feel like her scalings are really fine for how easy it is to hit her main poke ability. The rest of her combo has good scaling allowing oneshots with a high AP build.. the problem is mostly a high AP build is unlike to be had these days and even then you reach around 600 while she was balanced around the possibility of reaching around 1000 AP.

Anyway for the rune part many single runes could be good on her, but the structure of the paths makes it impossible to have them together. Like she could make great use of electrocute, only needing to land her basic combo and auto to proc it.. but domination sucks. Aery is fine when going poke-oriented, while comet is good against low-mobility opponets who will likely not dodge ur q a lot. Ultimate hat is great and so is transcendence as it allows you to reach 30% cdr without building defensive items. At this point I would really only want the mana sustain options (or maybe 1 of the ward things in domination).. I don't really care about anything else except the stopwatch vs zed. But as it is now I have to be stuck on things I don't care about and be lacking the ones I would need

AxzariousNov 11, 20171 votes

I'll agree her kill potential is pretty decent, but I think the main thing that holds her back compared to other mages is her ability to waveclear unless she's super ahead. Bonus damage to minions on her E, or being able to proc her passive with her W would go a long way to helping remedy this. As it stands, Xerath does her job, but better - he has her range (and even more on his ult if I remember right), better waveclear, and an even better forms of CC.

I think the issue with Domination is that it caters more to assassins and to a lesser extent, AP assassins than it does towards burst mages. Her cooldowns feel a little too long to really abuse Comet, which seems to be more of a poke tool that people like Xerath can exploit better, or Aery which looks to be great on melee champions who tend to chase people down. Sorcery as a primary or secondary seems mandatory on Lux with her high mana costs and lack of mana-regenerating mechanics. That said, if you end up running Sorcery, I think her best secondary runes are those from the precision tree - After Coup De Grace or Cut Down, Legend: Tenacity is an option, along with Triumph since you're cooldowns probably won't be back up to exploit Presence of Mind.

LightIsMyPathNov 11, 20171 votes

I'm currently running Sorcery-Ispiration. I tried the minion dematerializer, hoping it could help with her struggling waveclear. Nothing, even when all charges are used on casters the damage increase is too little to allow her to clear pre 1 item and half ( item 3165 item 1058 )/ 2 items. I use the biscuits to help with her terrible mana troubles early game, and sostitute them with a stopwatch when vs Zed (and cry in a corner cause he can 100-40 me with a combo at level 3). The other slot goes for the general 5%cdr-5%added cdr to max-5%summs cdr exc.. she really badly needs high cdr (I used to run it on blues with old runes)

AxzariousNov 11, 20171 votes

I've found manaflow band to be more than enough mana for Lux to manage, and it's even allowed me to skip lost chapter entirely in some games. In theory, this might allow for a better rush of Armguard and Hourglass/Stopwatch, but armguard alone isn't to be as good as Hexdrinker is, and I don't think Zhyona's measures up to Maw anymore either.

AD items just provide more than Non-support AP items do. On the damage mitigation front, they now have reason to buy stopwatch which builds into GA. Sure, you could argue that Seraph's Embrace counts, but that item's only good on a handful of champion while still competing for item slots and the usefulness of it's active fluctuates drastically.

I think AP items really need to be given a look to bring them back in line with the vast array of AD options out there. (Speaking of AD items, it would be great to see more items that give attack speed that don't also have crit attached. I miss choices like Zephyr and Atma's Impaler.)

AD Assassins already have a subset of items catering to them with Lethality and CDR and aren't penalized nearly as heavily for investing in their more defensive items since they grant AD. Hexdrinker alone basically solves all their weaknesses in midlane with the level-scaling health it provides. AP champs, especially those like Lux with 'one' ability for clearing the wave are given the morton's fork - Do you want to be able to clear that minion wave effectively? Or do you want to be able to mitigate the poke and survive a dive from the assassin? Usually, the waveclear is the best option for keeping the assassin off you - but if your other lanes don't listen to the MIA when they decide to roam, picks up a kill or two in another lane - that then allows them to either push the wave faster than you so they can roam or simply dive you at will.

If there were AP equivalents of Duskblade and Ghostblade that gave AP, CDR, AND Mpen - and even if they didn't have awesome actives that have a combination of utility + damage on one and a sharp increase in mobility to another, I bet there'd be rioting on the forums.

LightIsMyPathNov 12, 20171 votes

I'm not even considering manaflow. The rune looks amazing but it would lock me out of ultimate hat, which is my favorite rune. You get so low cd on ultimate (which is even your best option of fast waveclear in tricky situations), it's too good to don't take it. Let's hope in midseason for AP items! Even though I have a bad feeling about this..

rtbf76109271Nov 9, 20172 votes

They changed it on purpose. It also don't work with Talon both sides of rake + one auto attack

It's honestly way better this way. Syndra R alone should never have just got 150 bonus damage for hitting with 3 "different" sources of damage. There are lots of other examples, Karma tether, Leblanc chains

JustindeVNov 8, 20171 votes

I had the same with Phase Rush

The Yetii RiderNov 8, 20171 votes

Electrocute is powerful, should be rewarding for how much more difficult it is to proc (as opposed to Phase Rush, which is now brain dead easy to proc compared to Stormraider's).

Final Spark LuxNov 8, 20173 votes

It's base numbers aren't that far out of line with thunderlords. It does give you a bit more damage across the board, but it's countered by the fact that it has a -really- long cooldown. Not to mention, it really isn't that difficult for certain champs to still use it. My thought was a person could choose between long CD and more damage (this) or small CD but less dmg (comet), but electrocute has such a long CD, and is so unreliable to proc on skillshot based champions, you're almost always going to be better off using comet. My last game, the enemy did more damage with comet than I did with electrocute. And this was in a game where I had 0 deaths and we stomped our lane.

The Yetii RiderNov 8, 20171 votes

That would be more concerning if Comet and Electrocute were in direct competition with one another. But Comet has the benefits of speccing into Sorcery and getting one more Sorcery rune, while Electrocute has the benefits of speccing into Domination and getting one more Domination rune. I think that for assassins Electrocute is clearly better, and for mages Comet is the superior option.

Final Spark LuxNov 8, 20174 votes

If thats the case, then we have the same problem as the old system where certain runes become mandatory on certain champions, thus killing the point of customizability. I shouldn't be forced into the sorc tree because I still want to include some damage in my build while also being a relevant support to my team. Here's what I was using if you care to take a look http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/preseason-update/8100-8112?build=10001227

I'm a support player. First 2 runes are for damage, the next 2 are to help with my ability to ward / clear wards / use whatever actives I buy, and the next 2 are team oriented to help me shield / heal them more. It's fairly balanced. Not TONS of damage, but not useless either. Warding becomes more effective, and my shields become that much more effective, while making my damage have the ability to heal my teammates. It would synergize perfectly, but because it's changed, it's just too unreliable to proc. So basically I have to pick between a keystone that's useless to me just to get some warding benefits, or go down the sorc tree and lose basically 3 rune spots just to get a bit of damage.

Nik NikersonNov 9, 20171 votes

So Q, AA, E is too difficult to proc?

Final Spark LuxNov 9, 20171 votes

No, it's just the reliability of it I don't like. As a purely skillshot based champion, and what with the removal of old runes (meaning bye bye any mana per 5 I used to take) me missing one of my skillshots means I lose the trade and fall behind in the lane, because I'm now missing a giant chunk of mana and have nothing to show for it. It isn't "hard" to proc, but I can't rely on it for poke, which is generally what I'm trying to do (I'm a support player).

I've tried Aery and comet, and they both do alright as far as Im concerned, at least in terms of reliability (comet hits a lot oddly enough), but the problem is I absolutely hate the other runes in the tree. They don't feel impactful at all to me. For me, it feels like I have to choose between 1 damage keystone with mediocre dmg, but it's on a low CD, forcing me to spam to utilize it fully, but risk draining all my mana, and also hate the other runes in the tree, or choose 1 damage keystone with decent damage in a tree that has things that fit my playstyle, and has a long CD to counter its decent damage, but I can never proc it reliably, and attempting to do so could once again cost us the lane by draining my mana in an attempt to get the most out of my build.

Poop JellyNov 8, 20171 votes

It works on Bard (Q + AA + Passive). I haven't tested Lux yet but if what you're saying is true then I think it's not working as intended.

Cerulean LaserNov 8, 20171 votes

Was wondering this myself, thanks everyone.

Elemental LuxNov 9, 20171 votes

I could have told you that 1 month ago. XD IT HASNT WORKED ON THE PBE FOR ME AT ALLLLLLL. Maybe riot made it like that for lux specifically?

koshkyraNov 9, 20171 votes

Idk i made the thread last week and no attention from rioters

MhihnjNov 9, 20171 votes

if you want to proc it, you gotta do Q+e+auto or something like that. enhanced autos don't count as 2 procs anymore.

BlakiepugNov 9, 20171 votes

In addition to this Lux interaction, I am also curious if Ultimate Hat is working on Teemo as intended. Unlike CDR, the Ultimate Hat doesn't decrease the time it takes for Teemo to forage a mushroom, only the time between placing shrooms on the ground... As it is now, the rune is effectively worthless on Teemo. :|

Nik NikersonNov 9, 20171 votes

I would say yes, sounds like it's working correctly, and I for one am glad that it is.

Not every Rune is going to work on every champion. Just pick something else.

Mighty MorteinNov 9, 20171 votes

Could've sworn that they were going to change how certain interactions with abilities and how they apply Thunderlords. Saw a post somewhere that Lux's aa proc counts as just one tick now, instead of two. So yes it's intended.

DorkunedAurasNov 9, 20171 votes

It used to be that eating 3 ability hits procced it. Now it's 3 unique hits. We don't know how the game views the Lux thing, but given how many things that used to proc TLords aren't qualifying in the new system, I suspect the game now views the passive buffed auto from Lux as one thing, not 2.