genuine question, is draven broken right now?

lil koda·Jun 10, 2017·31 votes·3,411 views

i hate a lot of ad's but draven is just so stupid with DD right now, killing him is impossible with that bleed plus heavy hitting life steal, i have no idea what to do

72 Comments

SintamaJun 11, 201710 votes

It's not Draven. It's item 3812 . Graves has abused that item since it came out.

Automated RivenJun 11, 20172 votes

Draven doesn't build deaths dance tho.

yoshi2790Jun 11, 20178 votes

In what alternate universe do you live? Because I wanna go there.

Automated RivenJun 12, 20171 votes

Go check any statistics site. Draven has a far higher winrate and pick rate of bloodthirster. So I guess you could say that I live in the real world.

AMYS GRAVEJun 12, 20172 votes

http://lolalytics.com/champion/Draven/ADC/

DD is in 7 of his top 10 builds, BT is only in 2.

As a first item BT gives a 51.7% winrate to DD 53.6%

As a first, second, or third item DD outclasses BT.

Looks like you don't live in the real world.

Hella KaiserJun 12, 20171 votes

it's called bronze

DaNinadJun 11, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sf1L5zx2,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-06-11T17:59:10.595+0000)

Draven doesn't build deaths dance tho.

What the hell are you on sir

SteelflameJun 11, 20178 votes

Draven's Q needs to be adjusted so the bonus damage doesn't proc Lifesteal, only the base auto attack. He gets nearly twice as much raw impact from lifesteal than most ADCs, so when a Lifesteal item rush is strong, Draven is stupidly strong. This won't fix his D-Dance rush post dance, but it will weaken him more in the laning phase by dragging his healing down from 50+ per auto pre Dance to a more realistic 20-30. The issue with him in bot is that you can't burst him down fast enough generally and his godlike sustain power means that he can often turn just about any fight where you can't hard CC him long enough in his favor. He's also one of the few ADCs with a self-peel spell, which makes him far more independent of his support than most.

crippler38Jun 11, 20172 votes

only if they make every other effect that adds physical damage to your basic attack not trigger lifesteal.

namely Nasus.

For real though, adjusting an age old Draven mechanic would seriously mess him up, the man may be a problem right now thanks to DD but the axes adding flat damage to your basic attack and letting you heal off of it has always been his thing.

SteelflameJun 11, 20171 votes

I don't consider stupid Lifesteal abuse a thing for Draven. When I think Draven, I think the axe spinning egomaniac that crits you for 1800 damage lategame, with high early game damage too.

And Nasus, unlike Draven, actually has Lifesteal as an innate part of his kit that he's balanced around having, and doesn't build any more either.

crippler38Jun 11, 20171 votes

Nasus does build lifesteal it's actually pretty good on him since he has some base.

Also by removing Draven's bonus lifesteal it'd make him way way way way easy to kill once they make DD not so brokenly good (DD is literally better BT rn which is gross) since he has to announce where he's going in order to get max dps which makes him a big target, DD removes this downside mostly because it's ridiculously hard to burst someone when 30% of your damage is being taken over time instead of as burst.

DD has currently removed Draven's counterplay of 'aim skillshots and CC towards his axes' and 'start a fight while his axes are down' by giving him a lot more breathing room, it's stupid and I think they should nerf DD rather than remove Draven's main defensive tool.

Because a short knockback and slow isn't going to keep anyone from murdering him that really wants to.

SteelflameJun 11, 20171 votes

Neither Nasus's core nor highest win% builds have Lifesteal, and for good reason.

By having Lifesteal innately, it devalues building Lifesteal (Going from 0% to 15% is far more impact than going from 15-30%). You're probably more thinking along the lines of the fact that his lifesteal grows at certain levels, and he builds both Triforce and Spirit Visgae, which let him get more overall impact from the Lifesteal he already has.

Second, Nasus needs to stack massive defenses to survive the mid game teamfights where he shines, as lategame isn't Nasus's thing anymore with the insane kiting power that has flowed into ADC kits over the years.

Third, Nasus gets more effective health back not by building Lifesteal, but by building CDR to get more Qs out in a fight, because his base autos are rather crap, but Q damage makes up for it. Leading to the Triforce Spirit Visage (Generally uses CDR runes, but not going to assume).

Nasus may build Lifesteal in lower elos, but pubstomp builds are not something to go by.

crippler38Jun 11, 20171 votes

fair enough, I think it's funny to look at a nasus regain half his life in one swing when he has a decent HP pool though.

Pierce The VealJun 11, 20173 votes

{quoted}

i hate a lot of ad's but draven is just so stupid with DD right now, killing him is impossible with that bleed plus heavy hitting life steal, i have no idea what to do

Death's dance on ranged champions is currently broken. The only non ranged champions who can "abuse" it are riven and Fiora.

Need Gold 4 TentJun 11, 20171 votes

pretty sure it was meant as an AD caster's source of survivibility and sustain, the AD spellvamp that people had been asking for which catered to the increasing amount of AD casters in game (last time, the only ad champs who could use spellvamp were pantheon and garen), and the only options (gunblade: hybrid, WotA: AP) weren't great. But as always, things that can get abused will get abused. perhaps to keep it out of the hands of autoattackers, they should make it 20% vamp, but ONLY on abilities.

Pierce The VealJun 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir HaxaIot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sf1L5zx2,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-06-11T07:04:11.752+0000)

pretty sure it was meant as an AD caster's source of survivibility and sustain, the AD spellvamp that people had been asking for which catered to the increasing amount of AD casters in game (last time, the only ad champs who could use spellvamp were pantheon and garen), and the only options (gunblade: hybrid, WotA: AP) weren't great. But as always, things that can get abused will get abused. perhaps to keep it out of the hands of autoattackers, they should make it 20% vamp, but ONLY on abilities.

As someone who used to main all AD casters, yes, that is what it was intended to be. No, there is no point if it only heals off of abilities, as AD casters use their autos just as much as their abilities. The damage reduction there was just sort of tacked on and it was annoying as fuck to deal with. Literally every AD caster item released has had something tacked on that expressly benefited a class other than AD casters. I don't see why Riot can't just give them utility that helps them burst, rather than stuff that allows them to survive.

King of MongooseJun 11, 20173 votes

no, death's dance is

archerno1Jun 10, 20172 votes

Grievous Wounds counter his healing.

ArakadiaJun 10, 201715 votes

But then he chunks you because you didn't invest in defense or safety.

archerno1Jun 11, 20173 votes

{quoted}

But then he chunks you because you didn't invest in defense or safety.

But then you CC and kill him.

RewtJun 11, 201716 votes

but then you realise you are an ADC so you dont have CC and he rapes you. (but even then. its not draven thats OP. Its that fucking deaths dance item)

Pierce The VealJun 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

but then you realise you are an ADC so you dont have CC and he rapes you. (but even then. its not draven thats OP. Its that fucking deaths dance item)

But then you realize most ADC's in 2k17 have some sort of hard cc.

ArakadiaJun 11, 20177 votes

Sivir Corki Lucian MissFortune Quinn Twitch Tristana We have so much hard CC!

Edit: Also Ezreal and KogMaw suggested by SatomiKun. Might be more, didn't look THAT much.

Just Blame JennyJun 11, 201722 votes

In fairness, Twitch has the best hard CC right now.

You can't do anything when you're dead.

ArakadiaJun 11, 201712 votes

http://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG.jpg?nodirect

Baron of BreadJun 11, 20174 votes

item 3107

ArakadiaJun 11, 20171 votes

I guess you can use Redemption when your dead.

Yaśuo MainJun 11, 20171 votes

Why is Trist there? She has significant amounts of CC with her hard CC ult.

ArakadiaJun 11, 20174 votes

And Shyvana has significant amounts of mobility with her ult.

Ultimate's are often exceptions. And her ult usually is just a single target knockback with damage.

Chembaron YamadaJun 11, 20174 votes

As far as I know, the knockback from her ult is a small AoE. And Quinn has a knockback on a basic ability (E). Not saying it does last long, but it is hard CC.

ArakadiaJun 11, 20171 votes

Trist ult does have a small AoE, but its not going to be used most of the time. AND ITS AN ULT.

Also, Quinn's E is hard CC and I know that, but its not very strong and you can't use it to lockdown someone like Archen01 said you could.

Chembaron YamadaJun 11, 20171 votes

Was just pointing out facts, I agree with you that CCing Draven as an ADC is not an option.

BTW: I would add Ezreal KogMaw to the list of ADCs without CC. ^^

ArakadiaJun 12, 20171 votes

Okie! Will do.

HaIlMonitorJun 11, 20171 votes

The other 15 do though.... 15 of 22 is most.

ArakadiaJun 11, 20171 votes

I suggest you list out who has hard CC.

My point was that most ADC's can't lock down. Archen01 said you could CC and kill him but how are you going to do that when THE VAST majority of all ADC's either have no CC, only a displacement as CC which is terrible for lockdown, have their CC tied to an ultimate, or is very conditional like Xayah's E.

HaIlMonitorJun 11, 20171 votes

Ashe Varus Caitlyn Jhin Urgot

Those are hard cc, and then there are a handful like Vayne and Xayah who has some. Then almost every other adc that doesnt have a root/stun has some sort of slow/displacement.

ArakadiaJun 12, 20171 votes

The majority of those you listed have their ults as their only form of CC, two of which are single target hard CC's and the other is usually single target. Urgot is hardly classifiable as an ADC.

HaIlMonitorJun 13, 20171 votes

Regardless how you see it, assassins and ADC's dont need and shouldnt have any form of cc. That is what the Tanks, supports, ect are for. Adc's kits are overloaded, they deal a ton of damage, so everything else have to be super overbearing.

THE RlVER KlNGJun 11, 20171 votes

TFW Corki, Trist, and Quinn DO have hard CC.

Pierce The VealJun 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

We have so much hard CC!

Edit: Also and suggested by SatomiKun. Might be more, didn't look THAT much.

You mean to tell me corki's knockback, Quinn's knockback/interrupt, and tristana's ult aren't considered hard cc?

Synnx7Jun 11, 20171 votes

Which applies to all champs in the game. Arent u a desperate Draven main?

archerno1Jun 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Which applies to all champs in the game. Arent u a desperate Draven main?

I wish... Only ADC i can play is Ezreal... But i hsve played against a lot of Dravens lately in low plat and my Gragas was very effective. Op said that Draven is unkillable ,im just pointing out that like most ADCs he is easily killed

Another positive thing when i play agaist Draven (especially as support) i usually shut him down early so he goes afk or ints

Synnx7Jun 12, 20171 votes

The only adc u can play is ezreal , and you're in low plat. Which, recalls, you're a boosted animal from season 6 and u know jack shit about the game And yeah it is unkillable due to the dumb dmg output combined with 30-40% lifesteal. Do the math. Put in a GA and there goes ur penta

Im awaiting ur further counter argument . I expect you to say : Flash his Q auto attacks for counterplay

archerno1Jun 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The only adc u can play is ezreal , and you're in low plat. Which, recalls, you're a boosted animal from season 6 and u know jack shit about the game And yeah it is unkillable due to the dumb dmg output combined with 30-40% lifesteal. Do the math. Put in a GA and there goes ur penta

Im awaiting ur further counter argument . I expect you to say : Flash his Q auto attacks for counterplay

Well, i que as top/support. I only play Ezreal if i am autofilled to ADC. Wlso what arguments i can give to someone who is bronze? Draven is eadily shut down early. Later like every other ADC he can be CCed and killed. Its simple :)

13900 EssenceJun 11, 20172 votes

It is the same reason Jhin was "OP" earlier this year. He wasn't, the items he built were. They barely nerfed him, but hard-nerfed the items. And now he is in the dumpster again, sitting at a 46.5% winrate.

Even looking at draven's winrate alone without the context of the items, it is a 52.6%. If they were to nerf him it would make him underpowered without item 3812 . https://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

SecretlolzJun 11, 20172 votes

Meta right now is about being able to dispatch big resilent targets fast while also being able to deal with squishies. Draven does both. Just look at the top win rates.

Malzahar due to itemization and R destroys tanks. Same kit allows to make squishies suffer. Karthus deals with the whole enemy team while being particulary deadly to characters with low resistances. Twitch can outright assassinate targets. Due to building BORK he also deals with tanks.

Etc.

Characters that deal only sustained or burst damage are suffering right now. This is a powercreep meta.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 12, 20171 votes

Hmm your last sentence kinda explains why playing GP and swain currently feels so shitty.

GelmousJun 11, 20172 votes

no he isn't just revert DD ffs when was the last time Draven saw the light ?

FCJAAAAGOOOOJun 12, 20172 votes

Draven is like the Darius of marksmen and I'm pretty certain that's intentional. He's not 'OP' but he's very easy to be effective with save the axe-catching.

Weaknesses: no mobility except for a falling off MS bonus, honestly needs to catch axes to be effective so you can generally tell where he's going which makes landing skillshots on him easy, strong ult but very dodgeable (at least the second hit) and name an ADC with a weak ult that isn't also a weak ADC. Has strong stats for an ADC but he has no ranged poke that doesn't involve him personally closing the gap some.

He has weakness. The executioner bleeds! He just has a power spike with DD now; that's the only reason why he's FotM.

You want OP, if Draven somehow isn't? Take a look at Zac and Anivia's W%. Also, try to convince yourself that they aren't two of the most game-influencing champions in League of Legends right now. I can't. The worst part is, I can't ban them either! I need to ban Lee so my jungler or incompetent laner doesn't feed him.

RookPusherJun 12, 20172 votes

If you have any kind of support, they'll box that disgusting mustache up into a nice little to-go container for you to eat at your convenience. Even some tank supports can hand him the backside of salty fist if you catch my meaning.

Blow him up early, tilt him into oblivion. For what my two cents is worth, grab a Morgana, Leona, Alistair and deny him everything.