Can we calm down about the Jinx W change?

Häßlich·3/23/2017, 4:28:14 AM·5 votes·2,359 views

This is obviously just a tuning issue, but let me give you something to think about, so we can have a framework to understand why Riot would consider this change.

How many times have you heard "ADCs suck this patch" since... what? S4 or S5? You can attribute this to general whining, but they have been in an awkward place in the meta since at least S5 (and I would even argue S4). Riot has expressed interest in making ADCs more viable, but also to hone their role a little more too. So what is their role? Simple, really. They are meant to put down ranged dps--consistent, high damage over time. Most of them have very low mobility and/or CC, so they are very vulnerable, especially against assassins who can output similar dps or just delete them outright.

Itemization is another frequent topic for ADC balance, and Riot has expressed interest in finding ways to make crit part of the ADC identity, and this can be seen with several of their changes this season across champions, masteries, and items. When you think about the proposed Jinx change to her W (which allows it to crit), it becomes clear what they are going for with said change.

So I reiterate: This is just a tuning issue.

We've all seen the video where her W one-shots an Aatrox with 1700 damage (after resistances!), and there's no way this is going to make it to live. What I suspect is going to happen is that they will nerf the crit multiplier on her W as well. Here's a basic look, ignoring resistances and the RNG side of actually getting the crit for the moment.

https://i.gyazo.com/0b45883538242cc4f85371ee348d4be8.png

Current PBE: Full crit application

300 AD 50% Crit (with Inf Edge) 210 + (300 * 1.4) = 630 damage (non crit) Crit W, 630 * 2.5 = 1575

If they reduce the crit multiplier by 70%, so W crits do 1.3x by default (before IE), then with IE looks like:

630 * 1.8 = 1134

Assuming equal stats, but no IE multiplier 630 * 1.3 = 819

It still hits like a truck (mostly due to very high AD), but that looks a lot more reasonable than ~1600 dmg.


Let's move from hypothetical to actual.

Level 9 with item 1001 item 1055 item 3031

Base AD 74.4 + 8.55 (runes) + 8 (Doran's) + 70 (IE) = 161 total AD Crit chance = 20% Crit multiplier = 2.5

W rank 5 (max it first) 210 + 140% AD = 435 Crit W = 1089

With proposed W crit multiplier change Crit W = 783

Assuming equal stats, but no IE multiplier Crit W = 566

Keep in mind this is not accounting for masteries, armor's damage reduction, or any other factors that are more context sensitive. The proposed change is roughly 28% less total damage when you crit, even though the crit multiplier looks heavy-handed (it actually isn't). At these values, the W is still a strong buff to Jinx that encourages her to build crit, but Zap! isn't quite so oppressive when it does land while still being rewarding for landing it.

It's also entirely possible that they will just nerf the AD ratio on her W so she doesn't get to double-dip on the AD she builds when she crits.

Using the above example and a 1.0 AD ratio instead of 1.4,

Rank 5 W = 210 + 161 371 * 2.5 = 928

Still seems a little strong to me.

1.0 AD ratio AND -50% crit multiplier 371 * 2 = 742

This is a little more in tune with my previous suggestion, except that it makes her non-crit W strictly weaker. I don't think this is as good of a solution.


After all the (very simple) math here, I hope I've made the point clear: It's a tuning issue, and I doubt Riot will let it stand where it is now on the PBE.

Can we all relax, and just provide positive feedback/suggestions instead of raging at something which isn't even live yet?

29 Comments

Big Lincoln3/23/2017, 4:41:01 AM1 votes

why do crit rightclickers also need strong abilities (that scale with crit) ?_? isn't that the point of it, that they have strong right clicks but most of their spells are going to be either steroids or utilities?

further why does an ADC with already good range on her Q autos need to have a long-ranged poke spell that also hits hard, but its best value is determined by RNG?

doubt that I'd be able to get it removed outright, so why not just make it a linear scaling with crit a la Jhin/Ashe passive instead of it being up to chance whether or not you get sniped

Hige3/23/2017, 5:04:20 AM1 votes

or they could make her scale off of bonus AD only, that way, brawler's glove + 4 pots wouldn't be a thing to start the game with

ChargeItDownMid3/23/2017, 5:29:10 AM1 votes

[deleted]

Neeko N Dime3/23/2017, 5:45:01 AM1 votes

Tbh jinx needs any buff she can get at this point. Fairly weak in meta for a long time now. Never benefited from lethality obviously and is one of the easiest adcs for assassins to farm. Give her anything to help bring her in the fold at this point. Im not even an adc main

Requiemsfire3/23/2017, 7:22:18 AM1 votes

People will complain doe if the current changes fall through as they are we'll see cheese builds where Jinx builds raw AD with crit to cheese opponents by spamming W until she catches a target and then rocket.

DoktorKaiser3/23/2017, 7:26:22 AM1 votes

I love how you say she needs buffs but forget that she is the most toxic out of all ADC-s when she is the strongest one. Whoever thought that reset + aoe crit was a good idea needs a slap in the face and I sincerely hope this buff is an april fools joke...