How about we rework the Kog rework

Rebonack··13 votes·833 views

I'll preface by saying I don't think the rework was bad (strictly speaking). It just didn't go far enough to make Koggy actually function in the niche that Riot is wanting to push him toward. So the goal here will be to patch up a few of the weaknesses that are holding Koggy down without removing all of the weaknesses. I'll try to avoid using any concrete numbers for the most part and on a few abilities on general suggestions rather than something specific. The idea will be to preserve as much as possible Koggy's identity as the game's adorable, immobile artillery platform.

Innate - Bio-Arcane Barrage: Kog'Maw gains double attack speed from all sources, however his basic attacks have a 50% total AD ratio against champions and structures. Additionally, he deals (base percentage plus bonus AD ratio/AP ratio) of the target's Max HP in magic damage OnHit.

Why? Because if Riot wants Koggy to be the premiere sustained damage source among ADCs, then he actually needs to be able to deal sustained damage. This would be replacing his suicide bomber Innate, which never fit his kit to begin with. This gives Koggy constant access to his main source of auto-attack damage, however his base range is still below average for an ADC. As an added bonus, this would open up the possibility of Jungling with Kog. He would be a pretty vulnerable Jungler, but with his new Innate his clears would be pretty decent.

Q - Caustic Spittle: No change. This thing already does its job.

W - Acid Rain: (Toggle) Kog'Maw Roots himself in place, gaining extreme attack range and launching his attacks high into the sky to bypass Wall skills.

Why? Want an immobile death machine? Well now you've got an immobile death machine. The Koggle-Toggle would have a significant cooldown, so if Koggy popped it in the wrong place and had to shut it down, he would be losing his range advantage. This would give him the unique ability to bypass Wall skills (which is to make up for the fact that he takes double damage from OnHit return skills and items). I'm not sure how much auto-attack range 'extreme' would be, but considering that Koggy roots himself while active, it would probably need to be quite a bit.

E - Void Ooze: No change. Maybe a bit more range? This thing already does its job.

R - Living Artillery: Kog'Maw fires a living artillery shell at long range. The base damage and bonus AD ratio of this skill increases by 2.667% per 1% max HP the target is missing. Each consecutive Living Artillery cast within 6 seconds increases its mana cost.

Why? Well, smoothing out the bonus damage would help a ton, yes? You're probably wondering why the AP ratio doesn't go up with lower target health. There's a good reason for that! The AP ratio on this skill would be significantly buffed, probably up to 0.5 at least. This would help to further resolve between AD Koggy and AP Koggy. AD Kog would have the great execute while AP Kog would have much better poke damage, allowing both of his builds to flourish.

Welp!

There you go.

This wouldn't bring back the poke-and-kite style of old Trinity Kog, but I suspect that these changes as a base-line would allow Kog to do his thing much more consistently.

8 Comments

JustMyBassCannon3 votes

The one thing I would contest is the "melee" part on his W. Yes, that makes "melee only" items attractive to him, but it kind of defeats the purpose of making and balancing items around ranged/melee champions when you grant access to such items for potentially the longest-range Marksman.

Thematically, cool idea. Balanced? As a see-saw on it's side.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

The one thing I would contest is the "melee" part on his W. Yes, that makes "melee only" items attractive to him, but it kind of defeats the purpose of making and balancing items around ranged/melee champions when you grant access to such items for potentially the longest-range Marksman.

Thematically, cool idea. Balanced? As a see-saw on it's side.

Haha, potentially yeah.

It would be really strong with Devourer and Rageblade.

I'm not committed to the concept by any means. Mostly I'm just pitching the general ideas out there.

If not melee, the attacks could come screaming down out of the sky like his Ult to bypass walls. Same end result, but without the double Rageblade stacks if that proves to be too powerful.

Earthlord Jazz2 votes

Wouldn't the W part of making his AA's melee be absolutely ridiculous with Rageblade, as he not only passively doubles his AAs but melee attacks stack twice per auto? Sounds a little strong for me

Bonipherus2 votes

I hate the W... I know you're trying to go towards his "eating" theme but I just really don't like it and I find that it feels way too forced and might likely lack significant enough clarity. However, I do still prefer W as a toggle over than a normal cooldown, but I really like one that drains more and more mana over time which punishes you for keeping it up for more than you're able. Keep this up too long and you're looking at running oom very, very quickly. I also don't like not being able to move the entire time it's up (self-root) because i still need to dodge skillshots.

ofart2 votes

I just want his AP poke pattern to be viable again and W to do meaningful damage or get better scaling. The only time Kog's poke feels relevant now is if they're already <50% (which suggests an engage happened already). I'm not holding my breath though. Historically, Riot doesn't want to admit a rework is worse than the original and will likely just power through the new concept regardless of feedback. They will tweak numbers but they won't change the nature of the kit.

Anyway, I like your R concept if the base damage becomes good again but W sounds clunky and counter-intuitive (especially the melee part).

We have plenty of Kog threads and Riot hasn't addressed concerns yet: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yAOq9HeA-lets-congratulate-the-new-adc-with-the-lowest-winrate-and-a-way-forward

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/txlGL51M-so-meddler-said-koggy-is-the-sustained-damage-centerpiece-adc

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

I just want his AP poke pattern to be viable again and W to do meaningful damage or get better scaling. The only time Kog's poke feels relevant now is if they're already <50% (which suggests an engage happened already). I'm not holding my breath though. Historically, Riot doesn't want to admit a rework is worse than the original and will likely just power through the new concept regardless of feedback. They will tweak numbers but they won't change the nature of the kit.

Anyway, I like your R concept if the base damage becomes good again but W sounds clunky and counter-intuitive (especially the melee part).

We have plenty of Kog threads and Riot hasn't addressed concerns yet: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yAOq9HeA-lets-congratulate-the-new-adc-with-the-lowest-winrate-and-a-way-forward

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/txlGL51M-so-meddler-said-koggy-is-the-sustained-damage-centerpiece-adc

Yeah, I axed the melee part.

Instead it just launches projectiles into the stratosphere and makes them bypass Wall skills more or less like Koggy's Ult does. Same functionality without the melee-ranged stuff.

I still like the idea of Kog going 'nom!' for each attack five times a second, though.

As for the Ult, the idea would be to make it so the high AP ratio and the smoother bonus damage scaling would make up for the lower base damage. The base damage would still scale with how low the target is, so it would still ramp up a little. Basically, the goal would be to have the AD version dealing a bit more damage against low HP targets than the AP version, while the AP version is MUCH better against full health targets. It would give both versions of Kog very different play patterns (burn them down with W and finish off with R vs poke to death with R).

As for W, I think that levels scaling its range and reducing its cooldown would be plenty of incentive to level it.

If the cooldown scaled down to, say, 5 seconds. Maybe even three. It would be great for Kog since that would let him reposition more often.

SoundChaosDebug1 votes

Sounds like you want some reversed azir, ranged melee

Draconianrage2 votes

i think u mean a reversed kayle

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