Assasins, your thoughts?

AgeOfTheMage·May 12, 2017·4 votes·434 views

pretty balanced, maybe a little too safe for an assassin somewhat balanced, shift some power from her E into the rest of her kit balanced pretty balanced his kit is cool n all, but yet again a bit too safe for an assassin somewhat balanced, only if you have hard cc, otherwse you're screwed. balanced as well, rengar players do say the needs changes, I kinda think his kit is fun though also pretty balanced definitely needs buffs, on the rework you shoved ap onto him and killed ad shaco, he has to build some form of mpen for his abilities to do damage somewhat balanced, early game he's pretty weak but late game can delete people in under a second. not much to say with him, haven't seen him in ages. i mean, he is supposed to be an assasin, but all of his damage is on one ability, the rest are utility. let me know if i missed any and what your thoughts are.

9 Comments

NahuiMay 12, 20175 votes

{quoted}

pretty balanced, maybe a little TOO safe for an assassin somewhat balanced, shift some power from her E into the rest of her kit balanced pretty balanced his kit is cool n all, but yet again a bit too for for an assassin pretty balanced, easily shutdown by hard cc balanced as well, rengar players do say the needs changes, I kinda think his kit is fun though also pretty balanced definitely needs buffs, on the rework you shoved ap onto him and killed ad shaco, he has to build some form of mpen for his abilities to do damage unbalanced, safe,mobile and an ult that makes him untargetable, can't miss, and can deal 1k damage by itself. let me know if i missed any and what your thoughts are.

Depends who you ask. His kit is hit or miss. Land the shark, kill. Miss the shark, maybe kill. He is a bit too safe, although the W CD increase helped that greatly. I'd say technically balanced, but he still stomps moreso than other assassins if given a lead.
LB's kit right now seems balanced, it's gunblade/lichbane messing her balance up. Of course we can't delete these items, but the extra damage wasn't really a factor when designing her kit.
Akali I will never consider balanced. A 3 charge, point click ult that follows someone is overbearing, and it divides Akali into two phases. In meta, she's one of the worst champions to fight. Terrible for the game, incredibly binary, little counterplay, especially since pinks are useless now against her. On the other hand, if she's not meta, I'd rather alt f4 then be on her team. She can't do anything. She will never get to use all 3 charges. Her entire kit is a heavy burst, point click kit that synergizes hard with damage items (Lichbane, gunblade). Her ult needs an overhaul and she needs a real E before she can ever find a good limbo.
Elise isn't really so much an assassin. She has the characteristics of one sometimes, and certainly a full AP build would be as assassiny as something like a full AP amumu, but idk if she's an assassin. Regardless, I think she's balanced. She's hard to play and her damage takes a bit to do since you need to properly shift forms and properly order your skills to make the most of it.
Ekko I think is balanced as an assassin, not as a tank. His kit is relatively straight forward. He has the mobility of an average assassin with a way to stick on the target. His un-assassin qualities (Namely the W, the biggest controversy of his kit since release) has a massive set up time so landing it requires extreme precision, much like an assassin. His ult can be infuriating, however it's his tool of getting out that assassins need. It also has precision to it, in terms of timing as well as lining up the damage portion of it. Ekko has a lot to his kit, but it takes a bit of time to execute. I think overall he's balanced as an assassin, as he's just a squishy diver with a reset button, but not as a tank where he's a tanky mobile AP fighter that can still murder squishies and then reset again.
Katarina is interesting. Now yes, CC has always been the cry for justice to argue for Katarina's balance. It stops her ult, simple as that. But, it really isn't that effective of a counter, as you could argue CC prevents a lot of core damage from many champions (Zed's ult, Ekko's passive, LB's passive, really anyone). Her daggers require you to make one of two choices. You either run away from her, and she jumps on you and murders you, or you run towards her to avoid the dagger and she jumps on you and murders you. In a team fight scenario she can lack, however if ahead, she'll just burn you down before you're able to flash, and god help you if she has a gunblade. Her teamfight status keeps her balanced I guess, but if she gets ahead, she will kill anyone on her screen about every time from my experiences.
Rengar is not. Watch youtube videos, streamers, etc. Rengar can just jump out of the shadows and about one shot people, which is problematic. Yes you get the warning, no it doesn't do much except tell you you're about to die. He jumps in and your health bar just fades instantly. Even with a tanky build, he does similarly but lasts a lot longer. His mains want a change because even they realize leaping out of stealth for a one shot is just unfair. It was why old Talon was reworked.
Eve is fine. She's an assassin only because she stealths. Nothing else in her kit is assassin-like. Her Q is weak, E is alright, ult is alright for team fights and the slow. But, definitely not the same caliber of assassin as the others in your list. Very balanced if not a bit on the weaker side.
Shaco's tank build is dumb. It's a running theme for assassins, where the tanky version is toxic. Assassins kits aren't balanced around being tanky. So yes, his assassin version is lacking, so in terms of your argument, he does need buffs. But, his tank needs nerfs.
I feel like you have some personal bias with Zed. Just the language itself seems negatively charged. I'm a zed main, so this one I have extensive experience with. So, you're right about his stereotypes, and for a lot of it, they're true. He's definitely a safe assassin, who's safety really is only rivaled by Leblanc's double dashes or Shaco's long stealth blink. However, they're gated by huge cooldowns. W is a 22 second CD rank 1, and it isn't maxed until the end. So for most of the game, he's working with a 22 second mobility spell that on average might receive 10-20% cdr before it is maxed. However, it's not only a mobility spell, but also a necessary tool for offense. So, he typically has to choose between safety and aggression, and these decisions influence the jungle attention he receives.

Yes, his ult makes him untargetable. However, this didn't seem to be a factor when you talked about Fizz, who has this untargetability that requires no target on a much smaller CD, or on Elise who may be untargetable without a target as well, and can double as a long range dash, or Shaco and how his ult makes him untargetable as well as having synergy with his stealth (Ult, stealth out, only clone is left and makes it look like you just Q'd and auto'd not, ulted). Zd's is an ult and requires a target. On top of that, it's telegraphed and he will appear in the same spot 100% of the time. So while it makes him slippery, it at the same time can make him incredibly clunky. On top of that, it has many counters such as untargetability, Zhonyas, exhaust, etc. The ult can't miss, correct, but everything else save autos can. And the only way the ult does damage is if the rest of the stuff lands.

It can deal 1k damage by itself. I mean that's nice I guess. We could calculate Garen's ult, both magic and true, Veigar's ult, Darius' true damage reset ult, Syndra's outplay button, etc. The difference between zed's "1k" damage and their 1k damage is that theirs is about guaranteed. You click a button at the right time and it does it. Zed's ult can deal 1k damage. It can deal more. But, it can deal 100 damage as well. The more you land, the more damage you do. Seems logical though, right? It also doesn't just scale off AD, it scales off of damage done, so any sort of damage mitigation fucks it. This is why exhaust hurts zed much more than say Katarina or LB.

Zed right now is safe and mobile, which are his only real redeeming qualities. The tank meta popped so he won't be of much use now, he's very telegraphed however has lots of mechanical options if done correctly. Lulu's in, so Zed's out, all that stuff. I'm trying not to be bias, and you shouldn't discredit this because I'm a zed main (Rather the opposite), but there's a reason why Riot has always credited zed with being the perfect example of a healthy assassin kit in league. He has lots of mobility, lots of damage and lots of mechanical options, but to achieve any of those, you must be precise and methodical, unlike someone like akali who is a faceroll kit.

AgeOfTheMageMay 12, 20171 votes

looking over it i can see what you mean when I say biased, but lategame if he can just W e q you and get a kill(on a squishy champ) without you being able to do anything about it it's unfun. I know assasins are good against squishy targets, but it's still rather annoying, thanks for your opinion! For kat I haven't seen her in a pretty long while So that's why I said she can easily be shut down by hard cc, i'm not sure how to feel about her. with zed ult though, i can dodge his combo and his ult will still do a massive amount of my health, I get it's an ult n all but still. He does seem to have a weak early game though. as for eve, yeah, she can be an assasin on a champ like ashe or mf, with her E, but otherwise she does seem like a dot champ more than an assasin. Ekko's shield.. It is rather large for an assasin. ith akali, she's pretty balanced... till she gets 1 kill, she snowballs way too hard. as for fizz i'm not sure what to say about him. This post was a bit of a salty psot after being instakilled by zed so many times. I think my main problem was his insane ability to tower dive and take maybe, one turret shot then get a kill.

NahuiMay 12, 20171 votes

The late game W-E-Q is incredibly powerful yes. Well, only if he lands both Q's. If a single E and Q killed you, you can't be any higher than level 5 lol. However it's hard to land the entire kit every time. Plus it usually shouldn't be enough for a kill. To one shot a squishy, typically you must take the W and get the final auto in with the passive. This is at full health, by the way. But that's really his archtype as an assassin. He's a full, glass cannon assassin. He does damage and damage incorporated. He has no CC (His E's slow requires a massive CD, and the slow radius is tiny. Not practical to credit his shadow E's slow as actual cc), has no tankiness, has no utility for the team really save his little slow.

He's an assassin that does one thing and one thing only and that's damage. That's why he will rip you apart quicker than other assassins often do, but that's because he doesn't get a heal and a reset button, or a big slow/stun (Ekko), nor does he get a chain that roots (LB), nor does he get damage resistance (Katarina), nor does he get a huge slow/knock up (Fizz), and the list goes on. By only having damage, he's gotta have enough damage to compensate for his lack in every other field besides mobility. This is why his mobility and damage are huge, because CC, utility, tankiness are minuscule.

With GA giving AD now, and banshees veil becoming a must for APs (Spellshield) plus zhonyas, you should find a lot less Zed's in your game and should die less. But hopefully you can see why Zed's given the power he is. He lacks in critical areas that normally would disqualify him from being played at all.

AgeOfTheMageMay 12, 20171 votes

odd, I mean, I ws playing shaco, lvl 18, i had no defense(explains why i died so fast) I can see what you mean, full glass cannon. i mean, i thought they gave assasins reaction times. my main problem is his ability to towerdive with taking maybe 1-2 hits in total

Vapor Wave VibesMay 12, 20171 votes

You didn't include Talon, and kha

NeckereiMay 12, 20171 votes

Im a Zed main myself. I have had over 2k games with him mained since season 3 peaking at Plat 3 with him. I believe the current 7.9 meta and patch to armor items and armor pen has safetly taken Zed out of the spotlight. In all my years and games i have never seen or felt a patch so harming to Zed. I dont think ive ever felt more weak with him in my career. I dont think youll be worrying about him to much hes in a terrible spot in the meta.

MajkiMay 12, 20171 votes

Where is the love for Nidalee and Ahri ?

JoxcabMay 12, 20171 votes

AP Fizz is perfectly balanced. Tank Fizz can die for all I care and just got nerfs to it on PBE anyways.

LeBlanc is garbage. No damage in return for waveclear she didn't want or need, and Riot nerfed literally everything except the E range which was the problem in the first place.

Akali is always either broken or garbage because of how binary her kit is.

Elise is just standard Elise.

AP Ekko is perfectly balanced. Tank Ekko doesn't work anymore which is fine.

Katarina is on the stronger end but still balanced.

Rengar's entire rework and balance changes thereafter were a complete failure that gave him tools he didn't want or need and gutted everything else.

Evelynn is standard Eve.

Shaco's entire rework was a disgustingly horrible failure. He didn't need one at all. He was perfectly balanced prior to it. Now he's just garbage forced to go tank-bruiser to even hope to do anything.

Zed is literally one of the single most shittiest assassins in the entire game. He is complete useless weak garbage-tier trash.

WitchQueen AnnieMay 12, 20171 votes

You forgot the best assassin in the game.

Tryndamere at 3 items.

Fights breaks out... suddenly... Trynd spins in and gets an auto off on a carry. Carry flashes out, Trynd Flashes after them. 1 or 2 more hits... "An enemy has been slain." Ult... spin back out.