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Fiora Rework (As inspired by Smash Bros.)

Mãge··20 votes·3,082 views

What's up, League!? Platinum player Cardi here with another post on a Fiora Rework, because I absolutely love Fiora. This time, after having played Super Smash Bros. 4 a good bit, I've come up with an amazing reworked kit for Fiora that's inspired by both its gameplay and certain characters within it. (Marth and Lucina, anyone?) And here it is!

Artful Strikes (Passive): Fiora parries attacks and projectiles that strike her during any of her ability's animations. The parried attack or ability has its added effects (such as crowd control or on-hit effects) removed and its damage decreased by 35%.

Fiora's new passive is Artful Strikes. This whole new, remade passive draws inspiration from the Smash Bros. series where a melee character's attack can cancel out other similarly powered attacks and projectiles. Armed with this passive and a little bit of good timing, Fiora can Lunge, Blade Waltz, and Riposte her way across the battlefield without getting disabled or heavily damaged. And she can look cool in the process too, because when she parries an attack, her ability's animation frame will lag for a split second to show off how amazingly fast she deflects her enemy's offenses.

Lunge (Q): Fiora lunges in a line, dealing physical damage to all enemy units struck. Hitting an enemy with the tip of the blade causes Lunge to deal double its total damage, and damaging at least one unit reduces Lunge's cooldown by 40% (after CDR is applied). Lunge is a fixed-range linear dash.

Cooldown: 28/26/24/22/20 seconds

Fiora's new Lunge is a skillshot, capable of being dodged by her opponents, but also capable of dealing tons of damage if perfectly aimed. Another mechanic that's inspired by Smash Bros., the sweet spot on her Lunge rewards players that can successfully maneuver Fiora to strike her opponents with precision and skill. As an added bonus, using Lunge in-combat as opposed to using it as an escape will lower its cooldown to allow Fiora to maintain a duel or chase longer.

Riposte (W): Fiora steps forward and strikes swiftly in an arc in front of her, dealing damage to all enemies hit, plus an extra amount and stunning her opponents if she's parried attacks or projectiles within the last two seconds. Riposte will parry projectiles and attacks during its animation, but will not lag like the rest of Fiora's abilities.

Cooldown: 10 seconds Magic damage: 50/75/100/125/150 + bonus % of damage parried in the last two seconds Stun duration (after a parry): 0.5 seconds (shorter than Riven's stun)

Fiora performs her own version of Riven's Broken Wings, stepping forward and dealing damage in front of her. Riposte is especially effective after Fiora's parried some damage, because it returns a significant portion of the damage she's received back to her enemies. This would essentially be Fiora's counterattack ability.

Blade Waltz (E): Fiora dashes a short distance (think between Yasuo's E and Riven's Q) while flourishing her blade along the path, dealing damage to all enemies struck. Higher ranks in Duelist increase the number of slashes in Fiora's Blade Waltz repertoire while simultaneously increasing the total damage of all the slashes (at maximum Duelist rank, she can Blade Waltz five times in a row, as opposed to only twice).

Cooldown: 20 seconds after first cast

This is the new Fiora's bread and butter trading, teamfight, and dueling ability. Without a method of making herself untargetable, Fiora has to rely on her abilities' dash frames to block and parry attacks and crowd-control. Blade Waltz allows her to do so artfully and gracefully. Its mechanics are similar to that of a Riven's Broken Wings while its travel distance is slightly longer and more reminiscent to that of Yasuo's Sweeping Blade. Each time Fiora levels up her ultimate, Blade Waltz's "cooldown" is effectively decreased in combat, as Fiora can Blade Waltz an additional time before the ability is down for good. Perfect timing of Blade Waltz is what'll keep Fiora alive in teamfights while enabling her to function as a powerful to the death fighter/assassin. One important thing to note is that as the number of strikes increase, the total damage of Blade Waltz remains the same. This means ranks in Fiora's ultimate will increase the utility of Blade Waltz by adding an additional available cast of it, but lower the damage of each strike. In other words, spamming all the slashes at once will do you no good!

Duelist (R): Fiora salutes her blade into the air, ridding herself of disables (excluding displacement effects and suppression), and gains maximum cooldown reduction, increased attack speed, movement speed on-hit, and a healing effect whenever she parries an attack or ability, for twelve seconds. Also passively increases the total damage of Blade Waltz.

Cooldown: 160/150/140 seconds

Duelist is Fiora's new ultimate. When she activates it, she instantly becomes ready for combat and gains a wide array of powerful offensive stats. When she parries attacks, she heals for a bit of health, empowering her in the most dire of situations if she can successfully defend against her opponent's onslaught with good timing of her abilities. Careful, though. It only lasts for twelve seconds and doesn't reset the cooldown of your abilities. Don't activate it if you're already doomed, because it has a very long cooldown!

And that's it! If you're a Smash player I hope you can see how the new kit is inspired by the mechanics of Smash, and Lucina/Marth.

Until next time, then!

29 Comments

The Paulrus8 votes

Interesting concept but changes her from a pure duelist to an AOE/skillshot assassin. The CC removal is a terrible idea, given that that's how you counter an assassin, by not letting them reach you. The damage is far too high on all of the abilities. This rework proposal is the definition of powercreep.

This kit has:

Gap Closer/Dash in Q (with 40% CDR might I add if she hits an enemy) Built in tenacity during her abilities Damage Block A Stun A second dash that does AOE damage in E A free Cleanse on her ult Max CDR on Ult Ult with multiple attack steroids

Congratulations, you just made a top-lane kalista.

Mãge2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Paulrus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sEjKGFBE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-22T08:12:55.871+0000)

Interesting concept but changes her from a pure duelist to an AOE/skillshot assassin. The CC removal is a terrible idea, given that that's how you counter an assassin, by not letting them reach you. The damage is far too high on all of the abilities. This rework proposal is the definition of powercreep.

This kit has:

Gap Closer/Dash in Q (with 40% CDR might I add if she hits an enemy) Built in tenacity during her abilities Damage Block A Stun A second dash that does AOE damage in E A free Cleanse on her ult Max CDR on Ult Ult with multiple attack steroids

Congratulations, you just made a top-lane kalista.

She's not a top lane Kalsita, but I can see why you worry about the mobility. So I'll go through her kit with you and explain the counterplay that I came up with when I designed it.

Firstly, her Q is dodgeable, not unlike most other champions' Q abilities. Lee Sin's Q is dodgeable, Jarvan's Q is dodgeable, Vi's Q is dodgeable. The difference is that with Fiora's Q, she'll be unable to use it for a good amount of time if she misses. Its cooldown is actually really, really high for a basic Q ability. Its damage won't be absurd, either. You have to sweet spot it in order to bring out its full damage potential.

In contrast to Kalista, Fiora is a melee champion. She'll always be. She can't dash with every attack. This means slows ARE effective on her, albeit less effective on her than most (think Riven but slightly different).

The W is like a mini-riven Q. It'll stun only if Fiora parries an attack first. This means she has to be in combat already to use it. It's mostly just for interrupting channels, timing her other abilities, dodging skillshots, and punishing opponents for having their attacks parried.

In contrast with Riven, who has an on-demand, manaless AoE stun, I'd say this version is pretty balanced.

Finally, Fiora's ultimate is where things get into the gray area. When I designed this kit, I realized that Fiora wouldn't be able to close the gap on her targets. I wanted the new Fiora to have an action-like combat style, similar to Riven/Yasuo, but targeted-cc abilities that aren't projectiles are just too punishing on a champion without any means of contributing to the team, other than through her high damage and dueling potential. So I added a means of removing targeted-cc abilities (ex. Fiddlestick's Fear) onto her ultimate, which is just an average twelve second steroid. As a trade-off, its coodown is sufficiently high. It's higher than MANY, MANY other abilities. The CDR on her ult also ensures that building CDR on Fiora isn't the most efficient way to build her, as her ultimate already provides it.

In contrast with an ability like Karthus's requiem, her ultimate's cooldown is only 40 seconds shorter at level one. And Requiem has a very, very long cooldown because it's a global ability that damages every champion with little potential for counterplay.

Combine all of this with her mana costs, full skillshot kit, and you get a champion that can still be kited (probably more so than Riven) but has the ability to dash short distances to defend herself and interrupt enemies when she successfully outplays them. Mobility doesn't mean anything if it isn't meaningful. The question is then, does the mobility accomplish anything? For example, ranged champions essentially have an always-on X attack range that translates to instant blink and return on each attack. This accomplishes the feat of dealing damage without receiving damage or being available to be targeted. Melee champions don't have a blink and return like ranged champions.

And finally, if Fiora is successfully kited and/or outplayed, she'll still be useless. The only difference is that she doesn't have a click R to deal tons of damage ability to make up for her faults anymore. So that means it's up to the skill of the player in question and the skill of her opponent.

And of course, damage can always be adjusted.

Hope this helps!

The Paulrus3 votes

I'll go point by point with this.

{quoted}

Firstly, her Q is dodgeable, not unlike most other champions' Q abilities. Lee Sin's Q is dodgeable, Jarvan's Q is dodgeable, Vi's Q is dodgeable. The difference is that with Fiora's Q, she'll be unable to use it for a good amount of time if she misses. Its cooldown is actually really, really high for a basic Q ability. Its damage won't be absurd, either. You have to sweet spot it in order to bring out its full damage potential.

Skillshots can be dodged, but it also depends on the speed of the animation. Typically, dashes are very quick moving and therefore incredibly difficult to nigh impossible to dodge, especially at close range, which, as a melee character, is where fiora will be. Q has a high CD, but the CD is reduced from 28/26/24/22/20 to 16.8/15.6/14.4/13.2/12. Add in 40% CDR from her ult and or CDR items, and that drops down to 10.08/9.36/8.64/7.92/7.2. Unless it doesn't double stack. I'm assuming it does, or you would've specified it didn't. Also, given that you said enemies, not enemy champions, I'm assuming it'll proc the CDR on minions, which defeats the purpose of the long CD.

In contrast to Kalista, Fiora is a melee champion. She'll always be. She can't dash with every attack. This means slows ARE effective on her, albeit less effective on her than most (think Riven).

While this is true, your Fiora has a stun (Kalista does not) as well as a free cleanse in her ult as well as built in tenacity while using her abilities. And with being able to dash around with her E and Q, it'll be a moot point until Riot does something with slows/dashes, not to mention that most CC is skillshot based, which you can just dash out of.

The W is like a mini-riven Q. It'll stun only if Fiora parries an attack first. This means she has to be in combat already to use it. It's mostly just for interrupting channels and timing her other abilities.

In contrast with Riven, who has an on-demand, manaless AoE stun, I'd say this version is pretty balanced.

And compared to Kalista, Vayne is balanced. Doesn't mean they're actually balanced when you're comparing two OP champions.

Finally, Fiora's ultimate is where things get into the gray area. When I designed this kit, I realized that Fiora wouldn't be able to close the gap on her targets. I wanted the new Fiora to have an action-like combat style, similar to Riven/Yasuo, but targeted-cc abilities that aren't projectiles are just too punishing on a champion without any means of contributing to the team, other than through her high damage and dueling potential. So I added a means of removing something like Fiddlestick's Fear onto her ultimate, which is just a twelve second steroid. As a trade-off, its coodown is sufficiently high. It's higher than MANY, MANY other abilities. The CDR on her ult also ensures that building CDR on Fiora isn't the most efficient way to build her, as her ultimate already provides it.

The premise here is wrong. Both her Q and her E allow her to close the gap, and her boost during them all but ensure it. A 12 second steroid would easily last 1/4 to 1/2 of a teamfight. The point about the targeted CC is that they are supposed to be punishing, which is why they exist. This gives lower damage champions a chance in a world ruled by bursty assassins/bruisers.

Combine all of this with her mana costs, full skillshot kit, and you get a champion that can still be kited (probably more so than Riven) but has the ability to dash short distances to defend herself and interrupt enemies she successfully outplays. Mobility doesn't mean anything if it isn't meaningful (the question is then, does the mobility accomplish anything?), because ranged champions essentially have an always-on X attack range that translates to instant blink and return on each attack. If Fiora is successfully kited and outplayed, she'll still be useless. It's up to the skill of the player in question and the skill of her opponent.

Let's get one thing straight. There is no kiting if she can easily burst free of all CC once every 3 minutes and gets free tenacity during every ability plus multiple dashes to close a gap. Let's not forget your damage to her while she's dashing is reduced by over 30%, so good luck trying to kill her before she gets to you.

You said it yourself:

Fiora can Lunge, Blade Waltz, and Riposte her way across the battlefield without getting disabled or heavily damaged.

This kit gives ridiculous mobility, escape, and damage with no tradeoff for it. The only way I could see this even being remotely viable is if she had the garbage-tier base stats of Sona.

TL:DR: High Mobility + Damage blocking + CC Reduction + Free Cleanse + High Damage + Free CDR = Toxic Kit We need fewer broken champs, not more of them.

Mãge1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Paulrus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sEjKGFBE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-03-22T09:23:56.145+0000)

I'll go point by point with this.

Skillshots can be dodged, but it also depends on the speed of the animation. Typically, dashes are very quick moving and therefore incredibly difficult to nigh impossible to dodge, especially at close range, which, as a melee character, is where fiora will be. Q has a high CD, but the CD is reduced from 28/26/24/22/20 to 16.8/15.6/14.4/13.2/12. Add in 40% CDR from her ult and or CDR items, and that drops down to 10.08/9.36/8.64/7.92/7.2. Unless it doesn't double stack. I'm assuming it does, or you would've specified it didn't. Also, given that you said enemies, not enemy champions, I'm assuming it'll proc the CDR on minions, which defeats the purpose of the long CD.

While this is true, your Fiora has a stun (Kalista does not) as well as a free cleanse in her ult as well as built in tenacity while using her abilities. And with being able to dash around with her E and Q, it'll be a moot point until Riot does something with slows/dashes, not to mention that most CC is skillshot based, which you can just dash out of.

And compared to Kalista, Vayne is balanced. Doesn't mean they're actually balanced when you're comparing two OP champions.

The premise here is wrong. Both her Q and her E allow her to close the gap, and her boost during them all but ensure it. A 12 second steroid would easily last 1/4 to 1/2 of a teamfight. The point about the targeted CC is that they are supposed to be punishing, which is why they exist. This gives lower damage champions a chance in a world ruled by bursty assassins/bruisers.

Let's get one thing straight. There is no kiting if she can easily burst free of all CC once every 3 minutes and gets free tenacity during every ability plus multiple dashes to close a gap. Let's not forget your damage to her while she's dashing is reduced by over 30%, so good luck trying to kill her before she gets to you.

You said it yourself:

This kit gives ridiculous mobility, escape, and damage with no tradeoff for it. The only way I could see this even being remotely viable is if she had the garbage-tier base stats of Sona.

TL:DR: High Mobility + Damage blocking + CC Reduction + Free Cleanse + High Damage + Free CDR = Toxic Kit We need fewer broken champs, not more of them.

I'll return the favor.

Yes, indeed, the Q procs on minions. That means she can use her most damaging ability to escape if there are enemy minions behind her to dash through. Otherwise, she has to take the full cooldown of her Q. That also means failing to sweet spot your Q results in even lower damage output than Fiora's current Q, let alone a complete miss. And actually, regardless of the speed of the missile/dash, most skillshots can be dodged with Flash, a staple spell. If she misses Q in a critical moment because of a Flash outplay or prediction, that's a fault on her part as well!

Next, similar to attack range, stuns are also balanced around what you can accomplish with the stun. Kalista can close the gap on her targets with her slow. Fiora cannot accomplish that with a half second melee stun. I compared it with Riven's stun, which is more powerful and more on-demand than Fiora's stun. No in-game mechanic alone makes a champion underpowered or overpowered, it's the potential that the mechanic holds for the said champion or team that really defines its strength. In this case, I'd say a stun is barely the issue at hand.

Vayne is strong at certain things. She's weak at others. I won't comment further on that.

Q and E are both damage tools. Missing her Q deletes most of her burst damage. Closing the gap will only put you at a disadvantage if you don't have the damage to follow up on the opportunity.

I never said there's no tradeoff. There are plenty of tradeoffs, if you would consider what I wrote in my previous reply to you.

Mind you, I'd go as far as to say you're highlighting her strengths as toxic without even considering her weaknesses or the feel of her kit.

And to add insult to injury, you commented in your first post about how her damage is too high. Where are you even getting that from? The only ability with a damage indicator is her Riposte. I even said damage can always be adjusted.

Earthlord Jazz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Paulrus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sEjKGFBE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-22T08:12:55.871+0000)

Interesting concept but changes her from a pure duelist to an AOE/skillshot assassin. The CC removal is a terrible idea, given that that's how you counter an assassin, by not letting them reach you. The damage is far too high on all of the abilities. This rework proposal is the definition of powercreep.

This kit has:

Gap Closer/Dash in Q (with 40% CDR might I add if she hits an enemy) Built in tenacity during her abilities Damage Block A Stun A second dash that does AOE damage in E A free Cleanse on her ult Max CDR on Ult Ult with multiple attack steroids

Congratulations, you just made a top-lane kalista.

Have you seen the way most Fiora's are played as of now? She's already played as an AoE Assassin under the guise of a "Duelist".

These changes are much better for her since they actually give the player some skills to improve on rather than just mashing her abilities and right clicking.

Every seen a Fiora teamfight? It's her just pressing R on the squishy and having a Tiamat. Now THAT'S unhealthy

Saianna4 votes

Her Riposte looks awfuly similar to old jax counter attack.. Riot didn't like it..

If you think about it, Fiora was created when players started using AP Yi. So her job was more of fitting into game as Yi 2.0.

Mãge1 votes

{quoted}

Her Riposte looks awfuly similar to old jax counter attack.. Riot didn't like it..

If you think about it, Fiora was created when players started using AP Yi. So her job was more of fitting into game as Yi 2.0.

Thanks for your comment. I adjusted the value to half a second. That way, it's meaningful for her to time her other abilities and skillshots, but less burdening for her opponents. It's shorter than the shortest stun in the game!

And yea, but I think mostly high attack speed based auto-attack melee champions don't contribute to meaningful play. After all, it doesn't take much skill nor does it give room for the champion to outplay his/her opponents or for the summoner to showcase his/her skills with the said champion when all it's doing is automatically attacking and chasing.

Narasimha1 votes

And yea, but I think mostly high attack speed based auto-attack melee champions don't contribute to meaningful play. After all, it doesn't take much skill nor does it give room for the champion to outplay his/her opponents or for the summoner to showcase his/her skills with the said champion when all it's doing is automatically attacking and chasing.

They're not really meant to be overly fanciful. They're kind of the opposite of playmakers. They do one thing, they do it simply, and they do it WELL. They right click someone to death. While I do think Fiora needs a rework, this doesn't fit well either. She's supposed to be a fencer, a duelist, a specialist in 1v1 battles. She should be like the rapier she wields, simple and focussed to a point. This idea has her jumping all over the place and swinging her sword around like Inigo Montoya gone mad. Its a good work. But its not Fiora.

Mãge1 votes

Haha, that's kinda funny now that I imagine it. Well, I hope you enjoyed imagining the aspects of my kit as well as a kit that could be right-click based. The way I imagine it, she's a very smooth feeling sword champion with lots of graceful movements that double as parries (Blade Waltz!!!).

Hinagiku334 votes

As a longtime Fiora main, please understand that I love the character as a critique your rework :)

Passive: Not going to happen. Riot has already stated multiple times that the reason Fiora's W and Pantheon's Passive don't block/drop CC and on-hit effects is because it can't be done in their engine. If you block an attack it still hits and delivers on-hit effects even if the attack damage is blocked. Things like Blinds and Jax's dodge cause the attack to miss in the first place so the effects are never applied. Causing effects only mid-animation and then stuttering said animation is just asking to become the buggiest and most unplayable champ in the game - especially for those of us stuck with East Coast lag.

Q: Recall that Marth's Final Smash also gets him killed a lot. A fixed-range dash doesn't feel like it would work in League. It's like if Nidalee threw her spear and as dragged along with it regardless of it it hit anything. Sure you could deal tons of damage with a max-range direct hit...but most of the time you are just going to die since it's so predictable. Also that cooldown is really insane - there's no reason to worry about Nid-style spamming since it's so dangerous to use.

W: Here is where I feel we have irreconcilable differences - You seem to want Fiora to become Riven (an ability-spamming AD Caster) while I prefer Fiora as one of the League's few melee AD Carries. Giving Fiora a stun, even a conditional one, is not a good idea. Also not sure why it still does magic damage. I also question the wisdom of making this ability an attack that that only gets more powerful and adds CC if you try to stop her during it - talk about no counterplay...

E: We do not need anything else in this game like Yasuo. Please no spam-dashing. Making every champ more "extremely mobile" than the last is already a severe problem and does not need to be made worse. Dear god why are we combining Yasuo's multi-dash with Viktor's AoE path laser? Combined with a passive that will punish people for trying to attack her during her attack animations this is exceedingly toxic.

R: So Gangplank and Garen and a few other champs can drop CC on basic abilities, but Fiora has to pop her massive cooldown ult to do so? This also feels like it's encroaching on aspects of Yi's and Singed's design space since it's basically copying their different steroid ults. A champion's ult should be more iconic and unique, not just a better version of another champ's ult - we should be fixing this issue on old champs not expanding it to even more champs.

I really can't say I like this kit. I like Smash Bros. just fine, but this type of design just seems bad for League overall.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

"So Gangplank and Garen and a few other champs can drop CC on basic abilities, but Fiora has to pop her massive cooldown ult to do so? "

Alistar

Alex Hamilton2 votes

A really interesting concept! Big fan of the Super Smash Bros. reference! Keep up the good work!

Nightshade32262 votes

The last thing we need is Fiora to become a female Yasuo. Just no.

Fiora is 90% fine. The only things that need changing on her are her W and her passive (especially her passive).

And I hate rework ideas that just turn her Ultimate into a "make your other abilities better" button. This was the problem I had with Riot's proposed rework, which we haven't seen hide nor hair of since (because hopefully they scrapped it upon realizing it was stupid). In my opinion, Ultimate's should be unique abilities in their own right and Fiora certainly has a unique one. Making them steroids/buffs is just boring and uncreative.

LankPants2 votes

Fiora parries attacks and projectiles that strike her during any of her ability's animations. The parried attack or ability has its added effects (such as crowd control or on-hit effects) removed and its damage decreased by 35%.

That's just way to powerful to ever exist in League. Vi ulting you, use an ability to completely mitigate the CC. Ashe ult, no problem, just dash into it so no-one on your team has to eat the CC. Nautilus? He's literally worthless Vs you.

And then there's the added problem, did you fuck up and somehow eat a CC? Well it doesn't matter, you have a free cleanse in your kit.

It's also worth noting that Tiamat has an animation, so in this kit it could theoretically be used to 'parry' CC.

Earthlord Jazz1 votes

{quoted}

That's just way to powerful to ever exist in League. Vi ulting you, use an ability to completely mitigate the CC. Ashe ult, no problem, just dash into it so no-one on your team has to eat the CC. Nautilus? He's literally worthless Vs you.

And then there's the added problem, did you fuck up and somehow eat a CC? Well it doesn't matter, you have a free cleanse in your kit.

It's also worth noting that Tiamat has an animation, so in this kit it could theoretically be used to 'parry' CC.

Perhaps it should only apply to autoattacks, and the damage reduced could be boosted then in compensation (though only slightly)

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

How about no, leave her alone, and go die in a hole on the rift somewhere as Bard.

She is an all out AD heavy champion. Let her be that way.

You arguement is to remove auto target and escapes so that it's difficult. Bard is already that so why are you making another Bard?

She can 1v1 any champion if she's a glass cannon, except Le Blanc. She can easily be the carry should the actualy carry start falling. She's on par with WW, Yi, Katarina, Akali, and other high damage and amazing champions. Why would you remove that high damage output diversity?

Your parentheses comment in the title, Inspired by Smash Bros., seriously? We are all over Bard for looking like a Studio Ghibli design. What's wrong with a completely original design that isn't a does all and fails at everything. Perhaps maybe we can give Fiora a green suit, a shield, elf ears, a long hat and leather shoes? We can even have her non-attacking character turn into a fair maiden in a dress. Inspiration is not imitation.

Your interjections are what are ruining league. Please stop and consider that you're destroying a champion you hate rather than helping her in any way. You have a favorite champion and it obviously is countered by Fiora so you have to poop in your hand and offer it as an idea to other players. It's not funny, it's not cool, stop it.

The Paulrus1 votes

The point of the Q's CDR procing on minions, is it allows her to guarantee a hit and the CDR early game, since you always stay behind/in your minion wave. You'll always hit something and therefore have the CDR. A 0.5s stun may not be much, but it's more than enough to close a gap or to deal a large amount of damage with the Q and the E.

See champion in minions wave Q in> hits minions/champion (reduced CDR) and takes reduced damage during dashes E (a few times) > good luck with a skill shot CC. Oh by the way, reduced damage all around. W> damages enemy, blocks damage, then stuns the enemy

Then: Fiora walks away with plenty of time due to her 0.5s stun.

or

Fiora activates her ult gaining max CDR, attack speed, movement speed, and healing.
Fiora dashes around her opponent with Q and E while blocking damage and reducing any CC and using W to proc another stun.

Where in there is there counterplay exactly?

You're right on one account,

No in-game mechanic alone makes a champion underpowered or overpowered, it's the potential that the mechanic holds for the said champion or team that really defines its strength.

This is true, but double dashes + CC proofing her + damage reduction + high base mobility give her ridiculous mobility and very little risk involved in her kit. You say there are weaknesses to her kit, but I'm not seeing any. She has high CD, but that's easily mitigated by her kit. She has low health, just kidding, % damage block during abilities, a full on block, and healing on hit during ultimate. Oh, she's weak to kiting? Just kidding, free tenacity during abilities and a free cleanse.

Unless she's one-hittable, I'm not seeing any kind of tradeoff here. Everything you list as a tradeoff is mitigated somewhere else in the kit, which makes it not a tradeoff.

Mãge1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Paulrus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sEjKGFBE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-03-22T09:50:08.515+0000)

The point of the Q's CDR procing on minions, is it allows her to guarantee a hit and the CDR early game, since you always stay behind/in your minion wave. You'll always hit something and therefore have the CDR. A 0.5s stun may not be much, but it's more than enough to close a gap or to deal a large amount of damage with the Q and the E.

See champion in minions wave Q in> hits minions/champion (reduced CDR) and takes reduced damage during dashes E (a few times) > good luck with a skill shot CC. Oh by the way, reduced damage all around. W> damages enemy, blocks damage, then stuns the enemy

Then: Fiora walks away with plenty of time due to her 0.5s stun.

or

Fiora activates her ult gaining max CDR, attack speed, movement speed, and healing.
Fiora dashes around her opponent with Q and E while blocking damage and reducing any CC and using W to proc another stun.

Where in there is there counterplay exactly?

You're right on one account,

This is true, but double dashes + CC proofing her + damage reduction + high base mobility give her ridiculous mobility and very little risk involved in her kit. You say there are weaknesses to her kit, but I'm not seeing any. She has high CD, but that's easily mitigated by her kit. She has low health, just kidding, % damage block during abilities, a full on block, and healing on hit during ultimate. Oh, she's weak to kiting? Just kidding, free tenacity during abilities and a free cleanse.

Unless she's one-hittable, I'm not seeing any kind of tradeoff here. Everything you list as a tradeoff is mitigated somewhere else in the kit, which makes it not a tradeoff.

Riposte only stuns if she's parried an attack or projectile recently. Other than basic attacks, Q is her main source of damage. Excuse you, it can be dodged. Vi's Q can be dodged, and it's very fast. So can Lee's Q and Jarvan's Q. Dodge it to avoid damage. Or if your reflexes don't allow for it, walk forward to get out of its tip (sweet spot) or backwards if she's not close enough. E lets her dash a VERY short distance twice pre-level 6. It has a twenty second cooldown. Twenty. Once she's done dashing around, trade back! Your minions govern most of the early game anyway, and if she's attacked you, they're probably aggro'd onto her.

She cannot parry a Maokai's twisted advance. She cannot parry a Rumble's Flamespitter. She can't parry heck half the game's abilities. And it doesn't even block all the damage! The E dash frames last a split second. So does Lunge's. And Riposte's.

Here, in your style of communication. "See champions in minions wave Q in > Dodge it. E a few times > Dodge it; wait the dash animation out until attacking. She can't attack while dashing anyway. W>Doesn't stun if you don't let her parry you.

That nullifies her damage completely! Then you can return YOUR share of damage, because you're a champion too, and not a walking meatshield.

A cc-remove does not equate to cc-proof.The damage reduction only works if she's good and times everything perfectly. Even then, it doesn't work on non-projectile abilities or attacks, and it doesn't block all of the damage, only a portion of it. That's considering perfect play on Fiora's part. Healing only works if you get outplayed. I'll stop here.

Rallen3201 votes

Seems really interesting, but I feel like it kinda takes away from the whole "fencer" feel (which Riot has stated to be the main idea behind her). The new ult seems a little similar to what guinsoo was working with (instead of just gaining max CDR, she would have no mana costs and all her spells would have cooldowns under 1 second, in addition to some other stats, i think). Although, i do like how her new passive stops extra effects from attacks, which apparently riposte sorely lacks.

Bekkal1 votes

Basically you renamed Irelia to Fiora and then massively buffed her.

Starcall Casey1 votes

I love this and hope someone at Riot would come to comment on it!

Desmond Law1 votes

Fiora Passive: Duel: When Fiora deals or is dealt on-hit damage to/by an enemy champion, the damaged unit gains one stack of Duel. Fiora can only Duel one champion at a time, resetting her Duel stacks if a different champion attacks her. A champion with Duel will apply one Duel stack on its target on-hit. When a champion gets 5 stacks of Duel, the champion "loses" the Duel and all Duel stacks on both champions are consumed. The winning champion gets bonus AD equal to 50% of it's bonus AD for 5 seconds. Winning additional Duels will only refresh the duration.

Q: Lunge: Fiora dashes to a target unit. Lunge may be cast once more for free. Applies on-hit effects.

W: Parry: Passive: Gain bonus AD Active: Fiora readies her blade gaining bonus armor but is unable to attack for 1 second. She gains a shield for 1 second that blocks the next auto attack on her. If the shield blocks an auto attack, Fiora may cast Riposte within the next 2 seconds. Riposte: Fiora's next auto attack deals damage equal to 100% of her base AD and 100% of blocked opponent's bonus AD

E: Infighter: Passive: Infighter's cool down is reduced by 1 second on-hit. Active: When Fiora is struck by an auto attack outside her auto attack range, the attacking unit gains one stack of Infighter (max 1 stack). Fiora may activate Infighting to consume the stack and blink behind the target that attacked her. She gains bonus attack speed for the next 5 seconds. If a new champion auto attacks Fiora outside her auto attack range, the previous champion loses Infighter and the new champion gains Infighter. The enemy champion with Infighter has a mark over its head.

R: Fleche: For the next few seconds, Fiora's auto attacks to targets with Duel stacks are increased by (10% target's total AD) per Duel stack. While active, Fiora gains bonus movespeed toward champions with Duel stacks, Infighter's cool down is reduced by 2 seconds on-hit, and auto attacks increase Fiora's auto attack speed for a short time. The attack speed bonus can stack.

Earthlord Jazz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Desmond Law,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sEjKGFBE,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-03-22T19:27:36.430+0000)

Fiora Passive: Duel: When Fiora deals or is dealt damage to/by an enemy champion, the damaged unit gains one stack of Duel. Fiora can only Duel one champion at a time, resetting her Duel stacks if a different champion attacks her. A champion with Duel will apply one Duel stack on its target on-hit. When a champion gets 5 stacks of Duel, the champion "loses" the Duel and all Duel stacks on both champions are consumed. The winning champion gets bonus AD equal to 50% of it's bonus AD for 5 seconds. Winning additional Duels will only refresh the duration.

How would the passive work against spells that deal damage over time, say Karma's tether that applies damage every .25 seconds?

Desmond Law1 votes

I would have to change it to apply only on hit. It would be broken for DoT champs. I designed her to be an anti-autoattack/markmen champ that excels in 1v1s

HamburgerJunior1 votes

Please post more. Your ideas are good and considerably better than anything Rito's put out in the past 3 years.

Buttigieg 20201 votes

Upvoted as long as Fioras current cancer ultimate is removed.

Doctor Dyment1 votes

Uh. Huh. So, I guess my opening statement is that I kind of hate Fiora. But being a person who plays Jax, I am not ashamed to admit that I take great pleasure in dodging her entire ultimate with my E. That being said, you miss kind of a fundamental part about League and Smash Brothers. Leauge of Legends is a Multiplayer Online Battle Arena, or MOBA for short. MOBAs generally take some time and thinking to plan out a perfect attack. Not to say that games cannot go off of sole instinct alone or be speedy, as League is considered a "speedy" MOBA, but generally as you increase in level and skill you begin to plan out an attack and try to see things from multiple angles before engaging in a team fight. Who do I burst down, who should I focus on, how am I in the best position to absorb damage so my more damaging counterparts can fight without dying are all thoughts that commonly occur in League. Now Smash Bros. is the complete opposite of this, being a brawler or fighting game. In Smash, you have to rely on fast thinking and quick reflexes if you wish to best your opponent one on one. Less time is spent plotting out your attack, and more time is spent actually attacking and making the plan as you go along. There are so many variables in Smash that can make you change the way you think about how to progress forward. You might begin a combo, thinking of a full list of complex moves you can execute. But your opponent jumps away in the middle of the combo, and is beginning a counter attack. How can I defend against this, and turn it around to restart my combo? These are questions you commonly think of while playing Smash. Your thought process is much more jagged and fast rather than well thought out and executed. Not to say that some high level Smash players cannot think this way and win, but generally extremely quick thinking is what makes a good Smash player great. You cannot try to make a moderately slow game, and an extremely fast game combine seamlessly. It just doesn't work. Also, maybe shave a second or two off of the ultimate, maybe half a second on the stun on the W, and give some more details on her E because as it is, it seems overpowered and doesn't make that much sense to me.

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