There aren't many assassins in the game, and since their kits already lend towards an assassin-y playstyle, they can be re-classified as such. There's definitely no shortage of fighters in the game, after all.
LordForrest12 votesNo, i refuse simply because you call Diana an assassin.
She is not an assassin, when she goes in there is no going out, there is only death, whether its yours or the enemies is entirely up to the scenario.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesNo, i refuse simply because you call Diana an assassin.
She is not an assassin, when she goes in there is no going out, there is only death, whether its yours or the enemies is entirely up to the scenario.
Eh, I play Diana mostly like an Assassin. Because of this, I have to say, the lack of escapes kills me. She's got the gap-closer, so I consider her an Assassin without an escape, but much better kill potential.
Orangesilk6 votesAn assassin is a champion who has the tools to go in, kill someone and get out, Diana goes in, kills someone, shields herself and prepares for a cd-less brawl.
Asayake 5150glow2 votesI define an assassin as someone who can kill a single enemy quickly. Not sure what 'cd-less brawl' means. Only auto's? In teamfights, Diana's great at jumping in the middle of the fight and out-dueling/bursting anyone their. She does a lot better when she's not in the front lines. If she jumps in, she needs Zhonya's up, and team follow up. Her shield is helpful, but it's not enough to tank an entire team's worth of skills. It's useful for 1v1, and the dueling that happens after the initiation, however.
Orangesilk7 votes
Are assassins now?.
There's a lot of champions with burst, an assassin isn't just any bursty champion, an assassin is by design a guy that goes in, kills and then gets out. By cd-less brawl I mean only autos, yes, because that's how Diana ends up fighting once her priority target is dead, she lands a Q, turns on her W shield, Rs once, Es, autos, Rs again and now that her target is dead and she has no cooldowns, she zhonyas and prepares to use that passive.
She works exactly like a fighter 
, find a good moment to dive their back line, turn on your steroids, burn your gapclosers as you kill your target and then fight what's left.
RogueWill1 votesI consider her a bruiser initiator, and is mostly how I use her.... Go in, Slow everyone on sigh and focus on destroying the enemy carry.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesI consider her a bruiser initiator, and is mostly how I use her.... Go in, Slow everyone on sigh and focus on destroying the enemy carry.
She usually dies too quickly whenever I try this ): Tbh her initiation is sometimes a little too quick. Besides, you're gonna eat a lot of hits simply getting into their team (cast time for W)
RogueWill1 votesWell I normally go 
and honestly I survive the initial burst until min 50 or something. I also have enough magic penetration to blow whoever I land on (normally one of the carries) with my Q+R+W combo so even if I die considerable fast after that is still a 4v4.
DocShephard4 votes{quoted} when he goes in there is no going out, there is only death, whether its yours or the enemies is entirely up to the scenario.
I removed one letter from your comment, and now you're describing Talon, a clear-cut assassin.
Orangesilk8 votesI've seen countless times a Talon just go in, nab a carry and then go invisible and get away, it's not an optimal use of his resources but he CAN.
Diana literally cannot get away, not a single ability of hers allows her to.
doombotMECHA7 voteswhaddaya mean its not an optimal use of his resources? a safe carry kill is worth an ult. just use the initial cast of the ult for the execute.
LordGeovanni1 votesw e boots flash none
LordForrest1 votesUh dude, talon can escape through his ult, but when he goes in though he deletes his target and sometimes some of his allies so its not that big of a deal. Diana takes time to kill her targets and if she gets stopped your screwed.
SlampieceHawke2 votesShe doesn't really take that much time at all to kill a squishy.... but I always go glass cannon w/ her and I guess some people don't play her that way. NO BALLS.
More AP= fast kills. I got zhonyas for my "oh shit" item.
Mecha MaIphite1 votesRengar can't get out before getting locked down and bursted, Akali can't get out if the enemy team is competent. You don't necessarily need an escape to be an assassin.
LordForrest2 votesThe thing is Akali has the escape potential and she is way more mobile than Diana. And Rengar is weird he has assassin tendencies, but he also has fighter tendencies too, besides for the longest time he was built bruiser instead of pure damage so i don't really consider him a true assassin.
For Carthage1 votesHmm. Diana, a champ that excels at nuking high priority targets?
What do we call people who excel at nuking high priority targets? Hmmmmmmmmm... I wish I knew the answer to this...
OO. I KNOW. AN AD CARRY.
LordForrest1 votesOk, the sarcasm is not appreciated so drop it.
Secondly your using the wrong terminology, you want to use the phrase nuker? Thats what Annie is.
A nuker is different than an assassin, assassins excel at picks, getting in and out on a high priority target. A nuker like Annie on the other hand drop there load on the enemy team doing mass damage, possibly getting kills, but more often enough bring them low for someone else to finish off.
Neither of those are what Diana is, she is a relentless fighter. Her kit lends itself will to going in on a target, sticking to said target, and surviving the retaliation as she is chasing her target.
For Carthage1 votesI didn't say "nuker". I said she could nuke a target, but that doesn't mean I labeled her as a nuker. Generally she doesn't do AoE killing (though if we're being honest, she can).
She does nuke people. She blows them up quick as hell. She does it all the time. You say her kit lends her to be a relentless fighter but she also has all the scaling and base damage to kill an ADC even with resistances, and she can do it within a split second as well.
LordForrest1 votesOk. Let me explain this differently in the hopes that you get it. So far every argument i have seen in support for Diana being an assassin is her BURST damage potential. That's it, literally nothing else. Frankly, that's bullshit. Burst damage is not exclusive to assassins and while important, isn't what makes an assassin, an assassin.
First off, there is burst mages, who, surprise, surprise, deal burst damage. They are not classified as assassins despite their burst. Then there are the champions that can be built burst like J4, who is a tank. They once again are not called assassins. Hell, old taric built full AP deleted people and he is a fucking support.
So as you can see there is more to an assassin then burst damage. Those being mobility, safety(aka escape potential), and little in the way of defense. They are squishy characters who build full damage and rely on their kit and opportune moments to pick a target and get away. Because if an assassin gets caught out they are dead. If Diana gets caught out, she has the potential to survive or even turn it around and kill them. And before you say assassins can do that, i mean straight up fighting the enemy instead of attempting jukes and coincidental harass.
For Carthage1 votesBurst mages deal their damage at range and do damage in a massive AoE. They're also generally unreliable taking down single targets with the same precision as assassins. That's why they're classified as something with massive power but little precision - such as a mage that brings down a giant fireball of death just to kill one little unfortunate bastard.
So thank you for oversimplifying my statement - I told you she's a single-target concentrated burster.
LordForrest1 votesOk first off, your only concentrating on one part of what i said and ignoring the rest of it. Secondly, she isn't a burster, she is capable of burst yes, but doing so weakens you in teamfights or protracted fights when you are incapable of bursting enough, because you sacrifice are large part of you sustained damage just to pull of this burst and since you need to be ahead or the the target low to kill them by yourself with your burst its not generally a good idea.
For Carthage1 votes"Isn't a burster."
"Capable of burst."
Has an 80% AP scaling on her passive, 60% on her W, 70% on her Q, and 60% on each R charge, which hitting her Q allows her to use twice in quick succession for a grand total of 120% scaling.
In total, she has 330% AP scaling to blow people up with, with 270% if she just blows off hitting her Q first.
Your next closest within the same time-frame is Annie. At 285% on her abilities, counting only one tick of Tibbers. Counting 2 (which you'll normally get lategame with the 1.75 second stun) you get 305% scaling. Still less.
Please. Feel free to explain how Diana isn't built to be a burster in the slightest bit. I would love to hear this.
LordForrest1 votesOnce again you continue to only look at one part of what i said and not the whole thing. I said that yes she is capable of high burst, but the problem is focusing on that aspect weakens her teamfight.
Because for the scaling to be significant you have to build mostly damage which makes you easier to kill. Secondly her passive is on a three hit system which means you need to set it up before going in for it to be a big factor or have a decent amount of attack speed. Thirdly, doubling up on her R does give a significant chunk of damage, but once again it comes at the cost of sustained damage and her mobility. So, basically in you means of building her and dealing her damage, you are best case scenario going to basically trade kills, maybe get a second one low or you are going to get stopped by cc and destroyed, therefore being useless to your team.
Whereas building her as a mage fighter, as intended, you have both good damage and tankyness, thereby increasing your threat in teamfights by being able to dive on priority targets and sticking to them to sway the fight in your teams favor, by either killing them or driving them away so you team can kill their teammates with relative ease.
For Carthage1 votesYou realize how wrong you are?
First of all, I'm ignoring the rest of your post because it has no relevance whatsoever to what I'm saying: you can say "But Ekko is supposed to burst people and therefore cannot be classified as a tank or fighter even when he builds as one", but you're going to look like a dumbass when he also packs all the necessities and qualifications of a tank. Just because Riot classified a champ as something doesn't mean that's all they are.
Now let me tell you just about every Diana's strategy:
Zhonya's and Abyssal rush.
Hit minions twice.
Hit Q.
Ult in, shield up, blow the poor bastard up, win game. Let's not forget that she unleashes an auto immediately after landing her ult save she isn't stunned mid-flight (which happens once every 10 games-ish). 270% AP scaling in a matter of a second.
Late game, same thing - nail somebody, blow them up in a second. It's the most efficient strategy because Diana blows people up faster than any other champ right now.
The fight is now a 4v5 since you just completely deleted an enemy. You Zhonya's, your team is completely free to follow up now because you have made the fight a one-sided 4v5. That's the most efficient strategy, that's the best strategy considering your survivability increases with your AP scaling anyway thanks to your shield. And your lack of escape is rendered irrelevant by Zhonya's and having a fucking team to back you up while the enemy gets to grieve over their ADC that was removed in the blink of an eye.
Sorry, bud, but you're just flat out wrong.
LordForrest1 votesI am done with this conversation, clearly you don't want to listen to anything i am saying. I saw your points and countered them. Honestly it looks like we are arguing two different points, but i digress. Also, yes your shield gets bigger with AP, but without resistances to back it up, it is still going to disappear quickly.
For Carthage1 votes"Zhonya's and Abyssal"
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... I'm trying to think what those two have in common on AP champs... what are they used for? Just what is it? Can you help me figure it out?
You're proving the fact that you haven't even bothered to read all of what I've said, either. It's either that or you just don't stop to think before you counter-argue.
LordForrest1 votesagain i don't appreciate the sarcasm. I am just going to end this with this statement here.
I never said Diana couldn't burst, my whole original argument is that she ISN'T an assassin and people need to stop trying to classify her as one. That's it, that is all i wanted.
I'll admit i said somethings without fully looking through what i said, but that's beside the point.
Also i am just going to bring this back for your perusal, 
can be built for burst damage, but nobody tries to get him tagged as an Assassin, so why does Diana have to be tagged as one?
For Carthage1 votesIt's his abnormal build. Diana's normal build path is an assassin, straight damage build.
If somebody builds AD Jarvan, they refer to it as "Assassin Jarvan" because it's an off-build just as much as Ekko's tank build is an off-build (or used to be). But people would still say he can go assassin.
Diana's standard build path just coincides with excessive power and blowing up a single target before letting her team do the rest of the work. If you actually build her bruiser, that's fine, but that's not even close to her standard build.
It's her playstyle and build that makes her an assassin. Besides, the "no escape" argument is moot when Akali doesn't have one, either - she has invisibility in a small area that can be removed with a pink. She has absolutely nothing and she's still an assassin.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEA3rWVn,comment-id=00050004000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-28T23:54:07.271+0000)
It's his abnormal build. Diana's normal build path is an assassin, straight damage build.
If somebody builds AD Jarvan, they refer to it as "Assassin Jarvan" because it's an off-build just as much as Ekko's tank build is an off-build (or used to be). But people would still say he can go assassin.
Diana's standard build path just coincides with excessive power and blowing up a single target before letting her team do the rest of the work. If you actually build her bruiser, that's fine, but that's not even close to her standard build.
It's her playstyle and build that makes her an assassin. Besides, the "no escape" argument is moot when Akali doesn't have one, either - she has invisibility in a small area that can be removed with a pink. She has absolutely nothing and she's still an assassin.
So that's why I was so terrible with Akali... Eh, Akali's as much of an Assassin as Diana. Also, I'm pretty sure I said that Diana was an Assassin, just one without an escape. And also incredibly good at un-assassin-y things, when you don't build her as an assassin.
More of my look on assassins, is that they usually build pretty glass cannon and rely on their escapes. Diana's just a lot different.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEA3rWVn,comment-id=0005000400000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-28T17:13:47.768+0000)
You realize how wrong you are?
First of all, I'm ignoring the rest of your post because it has no relevance whatsoever to what I'm saying: you can say "But Ekko is supposed to burst people and therefore cannot be classified as a tank or fighter even when he builds as one", but you're going to look like a dumbass when he also packs all the necessities and qualifications of a tank. Just because Riot classified a champ as something doesn't mean that's all they are.
Now let me tell you just about every Diana's strategy:
Zhonya's and Abyssal rush.
Hit minions twice.
Hit Q.
Ult in, shield up, blow the poor bastard up, win game. Let's not forget that she unleashes an auto immediately after landing her ult save she isn't stunned mid-flight (which happens once every 10 games-ish). 270% AP scaling in a matter of a second.
Late game, same thing - nail somebody, blow them up in a second. It's the most efficient strategy because Diana blows people up faster than any other champ right now.
The fight is now a 4v5 since you just completely deleted an enemy. You Zhonya's, your team is completely free to follow up now because you have made the fight a one-sided 4v5. That's the most efficient strategy, that's the best strategy considering your survivability increases with your AP scaling anyway thanks to your shield. And your lack of escape is rendered irrelevant by Zhonya's and having a fucking team to back you up while the enemy gets to grieve over their ADC that was removed in the blink of an eye.
Sorry, bud, but you're just flat out wrong.
Have you played Diana recently? She does not automatically auto-attack after ulting in, because of W. Besides, you need to stick around for the entire animation before doing anything else. Casting W, or any skill, will interrupt the animation, therefore canceling the auto-attack and the passive proc.
Zhonya's does in no way, shape, or form, make up for a lack of an escape. Do you think you will only be engaging every 90 seconds? Also, Zhonya's may provide not-getting-killed, but does not do one of the main things escapes do - escape. There's no way you can get away from someone chasing you with Zhonya's.
"Every Diana's strategy" I know you're speaking figuratively, but remember that I play Diana and do not play her that way. Reasons? There's a few things wrong with that strategy.
Hitting minions. You believe the ranged poker's of their team will sit back while you charge your passive? You'll take decent damage, and you're a sitting duck for CC while you do it.
Hit Q. Main problem? If you miss, you gotta go through step 1 all over again.
Takes time to do this. Enemy should have sufficient CC. WIth Zhonya's, Abyssal, Doran's, and runes/masteries, you will have about 215 AP. That means, including a 30 magic resist and 0 magic pen stat, you're combo does 893.55 damage. Doesn't sound quite enough to delete a carry, does it? (lvls 7 - 10 or so. You wouldn't have enough gold for those items before that lvl anyway) P.2 of this, each skill/auto-attack has cast time. W has no cast time, but as you cannot use other skills while you it, I'm pretty sure it only refers to movement. And of course your auto attack animation length is based off your attack speed, and as you do not have Nashor's Tooth, it's probably the longest.
In order for the assassination to work, it has to be sudden and unexpected. What's the connection between those words and team follow-up? Oh right, your team just leaves you to die. Also, shield is kinda mitigated, as Zhonya's would block most of it anyway.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEA3rWVn,comment-id=00050004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-28T06:10:22.200+0000)
"Isn't a burster."
"Capable of burst."
Has an 80% AP scaling on her passive, 60% on her W, 70% on her Q, and 60% on each R charge, which hitting her Q allows her to use twice in quick succession for a grand total of 120% scaling.
In total, she has 330% AP scaling to blow people up with, with 270% if she just blows off hitting her Q first.
Your next closest within the same time-frame is Annie. At 285% on her abilities, counting only one tick of Tibbers. Counting 2 (which you'll normally get lategame with the 1.75 second stun) you get 305% scaling. Still less.
Please. Feel free to explain how Diana isn't built to be a burster in the slightest bit. I would love to hear this.
Well, first, glass cannon Diana dies way too quickly, due to lack of escapes. Second, that 80% AP on every 3rd auto means it's basically built for dueling. It also means her damage is much longer than that time frame you first chose, especially if she doesn't have Nashor's Tooth. Third, a 3 second CD Q with 35% CdR which adds to another ult, is another thing that would greatly increase your damage in duels. Fourth, the only way Diana could burst someone is by building glass cannon, even with Q+R+W+R. Even in early game, you'd still need Ignite to kill someone like that. And finally, Diana does a lot of burst damage, but her main potential is Assassination and out-1v1. Which does sound pretty fighter-ry. I guess I confused Assassins for anyone who could assassinate enemies.
And for the comparison to Annie... does Diana have any stuns? No, that E doesn't count. It's got a 20 second cooldown, and for all the time that they are CC'd by it, you're still casting it. ... And... Diana's Q is a skillshot. Easy to hit, I admit, but still a skillshot.
For Carthage1 votesYou realize I was stating that Diana can outburst Annie and that was the entirety of it while arguing that she is indeed classifiable as an assassin, right? Are you sleep deprived or have you taken one too many hallucinogens?
Ralanr1 votesLike Pantheon.
Neotrixed7 votesYasuo Doesn't have the burst to be considered and assassin, but he's not beefy enough to be a fighter either so idk
YumaS2Astral5 votesYasuo Doesn't have the burst to be considered and assassin, but he's not beefy enough to be a fighter either so idk
Master Yi is considered an Assassin/Fighter, and unless you are building him full AD/Crit, he will not have the burst to 100-0 someone in 1/2 seconds like a common assassin. However, he is still considered an assassin because of his sheer mobility and outplay potential.
I also think that 
and 
should be labeled as secondary supports and 
as a secondary tank. Also 
should be labeled as a pure Assassin (not Assassin/Fighter).
IcyPepper12 votesAll Annie has that is support-y is her crowd control passive. Just because she's played as a support, doesn't really make her much of one :/
There's support as a role, and support as a classification (like how champions are assassins and mages, not mid). Annie doesn't really classify as a support. Then again, if Riot wanted to... keep in mind Syndra is a secondary support apparently, yet is never played as one. All she has over Annie is a slow, longer range poke, and excellent synergy with cooldown reduction and some support items.
Eh.
It could go either way. I'd keep Zed as an assassin/fighter, though. He doesn't have great cc, but he has and builds some autoattack %hp and weaves autoattacks in his most devastating combos.
YumaS2Astral4 votesAll Annie has that is support-y is her crowd control passive. Just because she's played as a support, doesn't really make her much of one :/
There's support as a role, and support as a classification (like how champions are assassins and mages, not mid). Annie doesn't really classify as a support. Then again, if Riot wanted to... keep in mind Syndra is a secondary support apparently, yet is never played as one. All she has over Annie is a slow, longer range poke, and excellent synergy with cooldown reduction and some support items.
Eh.
It could go either way. I'd keep Zed as an assassin/fighter, though. He doesn't have great cc, but he has and builds some autoattack %hp and weaves autoattacks in his most devastating combos.
Also, 
should be classified as a Mage/Marksman. He has many marksman traits; namely the fact that he is auto-attack reliant, has an attack speed steroid, and is viable as an ADC. I don't even understand why Riot considers him to be a pure mage.
IcyPepper2 votesIf Azir is considered a mage/marksman, then I don't see why TF shouldn't.
LordForrest2 votesI agree i have played TF as a marksmen, its actually pretty good, the only problem is that if you team as a lot of magic damage then your Pick a Card just becomes a utility spell since it converts your entire aa into magic damage which you didn't spec pen for. Well that and your lack of mobility and a damaging harass spell are issues too.
IcyPepper1 votesshrugs
Maybe TF could use a small rework to embrace the marksman/mage thing.
Though some adc's sacrifice damaging spells for utility, such as Sivir's ult. Doesn't mean it's bad, though.
LordForrest1 votesDidn't say it was, just that compared to other adc's you have to work harder in some cases, which is probably why he isn't that popular in that role especially with how his ult lends itself better to the burst that AP TF brings. As it stands its a fun diversion in normals or a viable offbuild in ARAM if you need a marksmen.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesEh. He's got the hard CC. No other ADC I can think of does. And he's also super bursty. Whichever way you build him, he's still got a similar playstyle - Run in, throw a W, auto attack 1-2 times, run out. Does a surprising amount of damage with BloodThirster and Trinity Force.
LordForrest1 votesIts mainly because because of his slow, immobile ass and that fact that he doesn't have any steroids that scale into late game. So if you are unable to get a good lead, you will be less effective compared to the common adc picks. Besides if we want to play characters with an off marksmen build, i would rather play kennen, i personally think he is both stronger and safer then ADC TF
WarlockLaw1 votesAshe, Vayne and Kalista have hard cc as well. It's just two of them are ults and the other is situational. TF just has targeted cc that can work well with cc supports to bring in early kills.
LordGeovanni1 votesif you hit that gold card
LordGeovanni1 votesassassins havent been able to 1/2 second people for about a year now it takes 1.5 seconds now save for katarina talon and fed assassins in that time most people can react
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