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Katarina, the Sinister Blade [A Rework Concept]

Mãge··51 votes·4,908 views

Hey League! In the past, I've written up quite a few rework concepts for many of my favorite champions. This time, I'll be showing you guys my ideas for Katarina. Historically, Katarina's been an underpowered, unsatisfying to play blade assassin that snowballs harder than any other champion in the game. This makes her overpowered in games where she does snowball, and severely lacking in usefulness in games where she doesn't. The aim of this rework isn't to address all the issues of her snowballing, but rather to re-design her abilities in such a way that there is a meaningful interaction between Katarina's kit and the player behind the screen (which does not involve the aiming of a dozen skillshots). The desired end goal with a rework like this is to keep what players like about Katarina's kit, increase her theme as a blade-tossing teleporting assassin, while giving Kat's enemies just a little more room to outplay her and react to her resets in the event that she does get one (or a few). The way Katarina combines her abilities will also be extremely important in this new kit. The specific ability she decides to use to kill an opponent with and the order in which she executes her abilities could make the difference between a skilled Katarina player bouncing and juggling several blades at opponents after a single reset or an inexperienced Katarina player flopping around in the midst of the fray. And as always, I hope you enjoy and leave your questions and thoughts below, as I'll try my best to explain anything that's unclear. And critics are welcome to criticize my work, please do leave a comment if you feel this rework would not make Katarina a more fun or interesting champion.

Katarina, the Truly Sinister Blade

Voracity (Passive): When Katarina kills an enemy champion, Shunpo's cooldown and the cooldown of the killing ability is reduced by 12 seconds (doubled if Death Lotus is the killing ability). If her basic attacks, item actives, or Shunpo is responsible for killing an enemy champion, Katarina's next Shunpo within 12 seconds will grant her 90% damage reduction for one second instead.

Katarina's new passive is Voracity. The name hasn't changed, but the function of the ability differs greatly from that of her old one. Instead of mindlessly rampaging through enemies after a single kill, Katarina actually has to skillfully decide which ability she wants to use to kill her opponents with. On one hand, Katarina could simply press Shunpo on the low-health target within range and instantly kill it, but doing so will limit her ability to further her assassination potential. On the other, throwing a bouncing blade might backfire if the enemy champion's allies manage to intercept it, but will grant Katarina so much more chain kill potential. And then there's Sinister Steel for helping her own allies catch up to fleeing enemies or Death Lotus for a massive cooldown reduction. The ability combination that Katarina ultimtely decides to stick with will impact the teamfight in ways that simply weren't possible before.

Bouncing Blades (Q): Katarina throws a dagger at her target, which deals a baseline amount of damage. If it kills the target, it bounces back to Katarina immediately (regardless of range). If it doesn't kill the target, it bounces to the nearest target (prioritizing champions) within bounce range. The second bounce deals 1.5x the baseline damage. After the second bounce, it bounces back to Katarina immediately (regardless of range). Enemy champions can intercept the Bouncing Blade at any time for their allies. If they intercept a return bounce, they take 0.5x the baseline damage. If Katarina catches a blade from the return bounce, bouncing blades' remaining cooldown is reduced by 40% of its base cooldown (doubled if the blade killed the target).

Cooldown: 21 seconds

This ability is the crux of Katarina's new blade tossing style. It's a little in depth, so to clarify I'll lay out what happens with a decision tree from the moment Katarina clicks on a target, so that it's easier to understand.

Katarina clicks the target > Blade flies to the target and either hits it or gets intercepted. It deals 100% damage at this time regardless of who it hits. If the blade kills the struck target at this time, it bounces back to Katarina (no range limit, cannot be intercepted by struck target). Blade reaches a target > Blade then flies to a second target within range (prioritizing champions and then priotizing nearest targets). If there is no target within range for the blade to bounce to, it stops. Blade flies to second target > Blade then either hits the second target or gets intercepted. It deals 150% damage at this time regardless of who it hits, and then bounces to Katarina (same conditions as above). Blade flies to Katarina > Blade then either reaches Katarina and reduces Bouncing Blades' remaining cooldown by 40% of its base cooldown (80% if the blade caught had killed a target, such as a champion or a minion) or gets intercepted. It deals 50% damage if it is intercepted.

These mechanics combined make for an ability that has an insane amount of depth, without being overly complex. There are so many possibilities for opponents to deliberately outplay Katarina or for Katarina to let an opportunity slip. In the same way, there are also infinite possibilities for Katarina to pull off a stunning artwork of flying daggers when combined with her passive and multiple Bouncing Blades and Shunpos. It's everything you could possibly love about a point and click and even more. If Katarina decides to use Q to farm minions, the return will reduce the cooldown of the ability to about 4 seconds. Enemies can take advantage of this and block Katarina's blade when she targets a minion to put Katarina on hold for 20 seconds. Likewise, Katarina can instead target her lane opponent in response. What happens as a result is a mind game between Katarina and her lane opponent on which target she intends to toss a dagger at next. Additionally, if Katarina decides to use Bouncing Blade to finish off an enemy champion, its remaining cooldown becomes 9 seconds (21-12). This isn't a coincidence. By the time the dagger reaches her hands and returns 40% (8 seconds) of the ability's cooldown to Katarina, it'll be up for use again. That's all under the pretense that she decides to use Bouncing Blade to finish off her target, of course.

Sinister Steel (W): Katarina whirls daggers around her, dealing a portion of her enemies' missing health in damage and stealing the movement speed of champions struck for one second (all champions are slowed but Katarina uses the highest of the struck champions' movement speeds as the speed boost part of the movement 'steal').

Cooldown: 8 seconds

*Katarina deals little to no damage with Sinister Steel in exchange for a helpful and very short duration AoE slow for her team if she's bold enough to hop her squishy self into the fray. All champions struck will be slowed for a base amount, and Katarina will steal the movement speed of the speediest struck champion. Until enemies have very low health, Sinister still will be an ineffective damage tool because its base damage is removed. Combined with Shunpo and her passive though, Katarina can be an AoE slowing monster (given she has the means of staying alive and explicitly chooses to do so) through the use of multiple sinister steels that are accessed with the proper timing and use of her new reset passive. In tight situations where Shunpo isn't available, Sinister Steel is also Katarina's last means of defense, giving her the slight edge that might allow her to escape from dangerous situations. And as a final touch, it still becomes a formidable AoE damage tool against enemies with low health percentages even though it lacks base damage. *

Shunpo (E): Katarina teleports behind her target. If it is an enemy, she deals damage. Killing any unit with Shunpo reduces the cooldown of Katarina’s other abilities by 4 seconds (reduced by cooldown reduction).

Cooldown: 12 seconds

Katarina's Shunpo remains the same, except its damage reduction is at first glance, removed. Instead, she can decide to go the defensive route with Shunpo through proper use of her passive. Instead, if Katarina kills any target with Shunpo, her other abilities' cooldowns are reduced by four seconds. This gives her an incentive to use Shunpo not so unlike Irelia uses her Bladesurge - on low health minions to reduce the cooldown of her Sinsiter Steel and Bouncing Blades in order to secure a kill from afar when her opponents expect her abilities to be on cooldown. To prevent abuse cases with cooldown reduction, however, the reduction also scales with the stat, making it less effective as Katarina builds CDR. Instead, if Katarina chooses to build CDR at all, she'll be boosted in other ways that don't make her an unstoppable resourceless spam machine.

Death Lotus (R): Katarina throws 30 daggers within 3 seconds at the three nearest targets within 990-range in a 120 degree cone (prioritizes champions). Each dagger wounds the target(s) struck for a few seconds. Enemies hit by ten daggers in a row take additional damage from subsequent daggers as long as they’re wounded. Daggers ignore all item active and passives (except extra ability power gained from Rabadon’s Deathcap).

Cooldown: 120/90/60 seconds

Katarina's ultimate is a pseudo-skillshot. It's not really a skillshot because it works just as her previous ultimate did, but instead only affects a 120-degree cone in the direction of her choice, at much increased range (slightly more than a Veigar Q for comparison purposes). This means enemies can outplay this ability in several ways. One thing enemies could do is walk around Katarina. Most of the time, Katarina will be tempted to Shunpo onto fleeing enemies and launch her devastating Death Lotus, but closing the gap means the cone is relatively narrow at point of cast. This makes the ability very easy to dodge with a single dash or Summoner Flash. Another thing enemies could do (as always) is stop her channel. The ability is still channeled, so that hasn't changed. And finally, since Katarina may be tempted to channel Death Lotus from afar to limit the horizontal area enemies can manuever to avoid taking damage, enemies can dash or Flash directly away from her to avoid impending doom. That being said, however, Death Lotus is still a respectable ability. If she manages to cut off a point of escape with her cone of effect, enemies will have nowhere to run or be forced to tank the entirety of the ultimate, which deals more damage the longer you stay within it. Here are some hypothetical, numbers for you to get a sense of how the new ultimate would function. In no way are these set in stone and you're free to comment on how OP or UP they might be.

Dagger magic damage (per single dagger): 15/20/25 + 0.05 AP Magic damage dealt per second: 150/200/250 + 0.5 AP Total magic damage dealt (without debuff bonuses): 450/600/750 + 1.5 AP Additional damage per dagger on enemies hit by more than 10: 5 + 0.1 AP Maximum possible damage dealt (full channel): 550/700/850 + 3.5 AP

Under the assumption of the above possible numbers, and in no way are they set in stone, you can get an idea of how this cone ultimate would function. Enemies that escape within one second take minimal damage, but enemies that decide to stick around will take massive damage that scales even better than Katarina's ultimate on live. The ultimate itself has a much higher cooldown and will probably only be channeled once in any teamfight, given its increased range and possible area of denial effect. But the premise is that if Katarina can effectively and somehow catch her opponents off guard within the cone of effect, they will be completely and utterly devastated. Likewise, if Katarina makes the poor decision of wasting her ultimate in a suboptimal fashion, she might become her opponent's next juicy target instead.

Do note that while Katarina's Death Lotus will not apply bonus damage due to item actives or passives or disables like Rylai's Crystals Scepter, it does scale with item stats.

TL;DR -Q has new, interesting mechanics. -W's power is shifted away from damage and more to movement. -E's damage reduction is removed. -R is a wide cone of effect. -Please take the time to read, I put a lot of thought and time into the design.

Until next time, Cardi

36 Comments

Auryiel26 votes

So basically nerf her to shit tier

K, gotcha

20 seconds on her Q that doesn't waveclear anymore and can be blocked, but for some reason keeps the most bullshit part of the ability and enhances it (read, the constant free harass on enemy champions)

W's cooldown doubled

E having a pointless interaction with killing enemies with it to pretend it's a good skill

R is literally MF ult except worse and for some reason it's REALLY important that it doesn't heal Kat if she builds spellvamp, doesn't apply Rylai's slow and doesn't proc Luden's or Liandry's

And a complete gutting of her passive, the only reason Katarina is even remotely viable

Even when not looking at numbers I do not see a single good idea here. Why the fuck would you put a slow on Kat's W? Why would you changer her ult to a ranged ability when Kat NEEDS to have the very real weakness of literally throwing herself inside the enemy team to do her job? Why would you force a choice that isn't on with her passive when Kat has one of the least flexible combos in the game?

p.s. I don't even play Katarina, I just have enough sense to see someone trying to completely destroy a champion.

Mãge2 votes

Katarina's a pretty weak champion in her current state, so I completely agree with you. Being a shit tier champion feels really bad. It really sucks to play a champion that can't win lane simply because her base damage is so low. That's actually one of the reasons I was compelled to rework her kit. I wanted her to feel skillful and powerful, but in the right contexts.

For example, her Q is on a 4-ish second cooldown if you use it to properly last hit minions. You'll be able to farm from afar not so much different from Annie.

W becomes more of a utility spell than a damage tool, so retaining the ability to make meaningful trades while balancing last-hitting with Bouncing Blades is the new minigame for Katarina masters.

R could be compared to MF's ult, but is still single-target for up to three targets. The main difference is its width and range. MF's ult is a primarily long-ranged AoE style ability, whereas Katarina is an assassin that can Shunpo to unusual places. That means her wide cone of effect isn't just different, it also plays out in a completely different way. The main thing to take away here is the feel. I wanted Katarina to feel like a blade-tossing expert, and making it a cone auto-target would be the way to increase the range of her ultimate so that she could feel like one without making her completely impossible to play against.

Since you don't play Katarina, I hope you give Katarina a go, it's much easier for you to feel the champion than it is for me to try to describe in words what it is about Katarina at the moment that makes me want change her kit so much. Thanks for reading and offering criticism, by the way.

Seriphym6 votes

First off this is probably the best "structured" explanation of a kit I have seen to date. The fact you actually broke down each possibility of your bouncing blades rework, as well as delved into great detail on how each and every ability works is wonderful. And you get bonus points for the fact you delivered a very precise description in such a short post.

However, as a Kat main I really have to agree with Auryiel (brashness aside) about how it actually effects Kat as a champ. This completely destroys the identity of Kat as an all or nothing champ. She epitomizes the idea of high risk high reward and really thumps the player playing her if they make a mistake.

As Auryiel said "So basically nerf her to shit tier"

to which you reply "Katarina's a pretty weak champion in her current state, so I completely agree with you. Being a shit tier champion feels really bad."

Katarina may be weaker compared to some of her former gory but she is by no means a weak champion. And I don't understand how, if you completely agree with Auryiel that "being a shit tier champion feels really bad", you would implement something that makes her completely worse.

What really confuses me is the fact that you are unhappy with her playstyle because "It really sucks to play a champion that can't win lane simply because her base damage is so low." and yet you want to change her so that its much much easier to shut her down as well as turn her up in difficulty to play?

There is only one of four logical conclusions that can be drawn from this.

Either:

  1. You don't play Kat as well as you would like to. (Not many of us do)

  2. You can't play against Kat as well as you would like to. (CC)

  3. You need to try using a different champ, as Kat is clearly not the champ you once enjoyed. (Have patience she is the Queen of reworks, some work some don't, but smaller changes are much better than complete reworks.)

  4. What you are really looking for is a new champ for some professional player pull off some big plays with (using the game mechanics in your suggested kit) just for your viewing pleasure.

TLDR:

Bonus points for Kit overview post structure and detail. Bad BAD BAD idea for Kat rework. Cool idea for new champ.

p.s. I DO play Katarina constantly, and I too have enough sense to see someone trying to change something that will end up completely destroying a champion.

Mãge1 votes

I would agree mostly with 3. I've played Kat throughout my entire career as a League of Legends player, and I've been though her various kits at various points in time.

I'll pick off the three main points you brought up. I hope I get them right.

-Katarina should be able to punish. -Katarina is not a weak champion on live. -The new kit would introduce too much difficulty that only pro players would enjoy Katarina all the time.

Well, this kit doesn't change Katarina's ability to punish her opponents. The difference lies in the increased number of ways in which she can pull it off. On live, there's one way - target your enemy directly with Bouncing Blade until they have low health and then launch your abilities all at once when they're off cooldown. This kit would change that. Instead, you can use the bounces to whittle your enemy down quickly in huge chunks of burst with the second bounce. You could surprise them with the Shunpo reduction with extra burst. You could also use Sinister Steel offensively instead of defensively and slow your opponent while you walk ahead or away from them for the perfect distance/coverage for your Death Lotus. With higher cooldowns, Katarina's abilities can afford to be more powerful. That would mean a bigger movement speed boost and steal on Sinister Steel, and bigger ratios and base damage on Bouncing Blades.

I would disagree with Katarina being a strong champion on live, but that's probably not the case in your experience.

And I also hope it's not to difficult too imagine using Shunpo or Sinster Steel to position the perfect Area of Denial Death Lotus on bot lane or over the walls in the jungle. After all, Shunpo is an omnidirectional free blink that resets on champion kill.

Does this help at all?

http://imgur.com/mAqPx0E

In my horrible, extremely crude paint drawing. Imagine That's red buff and your team is chasing the enemy team into a choke point from dragon pit. Black K is Katarina's original location. Red K is after Flashing and Shunpoing to her new location. The enemy team wants to escape through that patch of brush as indicated by the arrow. You're Katarina and you Flash > Shunpo just beside the Red Buff upper wall on the U shape and unleash your Death Lotus (crimson red cone with a dead face inside it). That's the type of Area Denial I imagine with the new Death Lotus. You can also use Sinister Steel to achieve your desired effect as well, since it steals MS (slows enemy and boosts you), allowing you to vary distance accordingly.

Oh boy. And this is why I explain my design through words and not drawings, heh.

Seriphym2 votes

I have a high respect for you as you are obviously capably of rational discussion and are using that ability.

I just do not see this as a good change to Kat's kit.

I checked your matches and it looks like you used to play her as much as I still do but that as the new changes came out your play with her dropped off a bit. So I can understand that the current iteration of Kat really pains you. Anytime they change Kat (especially the first time they reworked her) it frustrates the hell out of me, but for me she has never (in any of those changes some worse than this version) become unplayable. I don't enjoy her current form as much as I would like but she is still Kat and still plays like Kat.

This new suggestion does not pay like Kat at all.

Honestly this changes Kat into a ranged champ more than a melee champ.

Players would end up relying on Bouncing Blades as a sort of "auto attack" on minions and champs from ranged and taking damage.(That's ranged not melee)

Your swapping a run speed buff on Sinister steel (that already allows you to plant your Ult where you need to ahead of the champ) taking its damage away for no reason just so you can slow the enemy team? For what? You even stated that it would be ballsy to do so and only if she has the means to stay alive.

I can tell you right now with that set up unless she forgoes "all"damage and makes herself a tank she wouldn't survive being a slowing monster for her team and that's with a good healer. You have basically replaced her W with the ability to become a Trundle with speed boots and no damage. (If this rework happens her graphics should literally change to trundle with his slow down every time she hits W.)

I just don't see it.

Its easier to see this as some new champ that throws tiny ball bearings around that bounce back to her as she pops in and out of packs of champs slowing them then returning to the front to throw more ball bearings. (They actually bounce better and do hurt if you get hit.)

But then again I don't really know anything I've only been playing cancer Kat since her original form and I don't play ranked so.

Honestly,

This would destroy the only champ I enjoy in this game.

Mãge1 votes

Thank you. I feel you on that one. The goal of the rework isn't to change Katarina so that players that love her now won't enjoy her anymore. But I want to ask you a few questions as to get a better idea of why you enjoy Katarina.

Do you enjoy her because of her fast and easy to carry out burst combos?

Do you enjoy her because she's simply sexy?

Do you enjoy her because she is relatively weak and can become monstrously strong when she's not weak?

I changed Sinister Steel into a MS steal because I always felt it was lacking in the utility department. I felt like I should be able to use it to escape or run ahead of an enemy to channel a better positioned death lotus. An MS steal was my solution. The new combo would stress your personal preference more than the current kit does. If you prefer to land a really good ultimate, using Sinister Steel to position for that is your thing. If you'd rather play to Kat's current burst combos, you can do that as well. E into Q into W would result in the highest net damage without using her ultimate, as the new W deals damage based off missing health.

Please do let me know more about what is it that you think makes Kat fun to play and how it is that you think these changes would affect her.

Seriphym1 votes

It doesn't matter what I enjoy about Kat as all you are going to do is try to explain to me how this makes her better for whatever I choose, when I have already explained this is an abomination of everything that "is" Kat.

I like her in her current for WAY better than what this does to her.

And for what? "how fancy Kat's new Q would look if someone skilled like Faker manages the juggling, resets, Shunpo positioning, and cooldowns perfectly. THE BEAUTY IS TOO MUCH FOR MY IMAGINATION!" So you can watch it in Ranked? So you wish to take and ruin what a champ is for current players so you can "watch big plays"?????!?!?

Just have them make a NEW champ for this.

TacoTheKitten11 votes

This looks really fucking awesome. I think I'd miss the good ol faceroll kat who's just for fun and shit, but this new kat wouldn't be bad either. Great work dude.

Mãge2 votes

Thanks dude. What kept me going with this one in particular is how much fun I keep having imagining how fancy Kat's new Q would look if someone skilled like Faker manages the juggling, resets, Shunpo positioning, and cooldowns perfectly. THE BEAUTY IS TOO MUCH FOR MY IMAGINATION!

Hinagiku3311 votes

Serious question: have you played Kat before?

Look, I appreciate the time and effort you put into this, so please bear with me as I try to figure out what you were thinking with this.

  • Why should I EVER pick this Kat?

She has no wave-clear, her burst is basically non-existent despite being an assassin, attempting to last-hit with Q actively screws you by denying a bounce, even if you did somehow kill something it wouldn't matter because the best you can hope for is to Shunpo away, you will auto-lose lane because you have no decent farming tools and no sustain, etc.

And for dealing with all of this nonsense my reward is...? I'm drawing a blank. This Kat is just worse at everything she does than any other assassin I can think of.

  • What is this Kat's purpose?

It can't be killing things. This Kat can never function as an assassin. How would you kill things? Poke for days, pray they don't have sustain, and dive if they decide to stick around with <20% health? What is her actual function on a team? How is she supposed to get the gold she needs to itemize for damage?

  • Ahri MissFortune That Q seems familiar...

  • Sinister Steel - why is this even still here? It's only purpose is to proc the marks from her Q's cluster bounce. You should look at pre-rework Kat's kit, this skill used to be a utility skill called Killer Instincts that might work better. This skill slot seems like a complete waste - it will never be useful in lane unless you are miles ahead already and it's useless in team fights because why would I want a big MS boost when I'm in the middle of the enemy team? AoE slow monster??? What is this Kat supposed to be a Tank now? Kat is an assassin, she needs damage and an ability that only does damage when the enemy is near-death only works when you have abilities that actually bring the enemy near death - either you are making Kat's Q a Nid-spear level nuke, or you are planning on making Shunpo a nuclear warhead on top of a point-n-click blink.

  • This Shunpo is nothing like Bladesurge. Kill a minion -> Lower Q and W cooldown a little -> W is still worthless you wave-clear, Q is still essentially single target. Unless your skills are almost off cooldown as it is AND the enemy is miraculously low on health and about to back, then there it would be very, very stupid to blow one of your only sources of damage and your gap-closer on a minion to...whiff W and throw a Q? Farming with Shunpo would still be ungodly stupid and unproductive since you'd kill a single minion and then be out an escape/engage. Gank City: population - Kat

  • MissFortune Why is my ult shooting daggers??? Seriously, why a channeled damage cone? What purpose did this change serve? It's already a melee-range channel - does making it a ~1,000 range somehow make it riskier to use? I'm confused. What was old Death Lotus not doing for you? Is this Kat supposed to be Lux of MF and just Pew-Pew from afar???

Tl;DR

Why? What were each of these changes supposed to solve? You removed Kat's wave-clear, clean-up potential, and anything that would have made winning lane possible. What did she gain from this? Her ult is now ranged. RANGED. Because everyone agreed that Kat was too risky and needed to be able to use Death Lotus from 1,000 range away. On an assassin.

Don't be like Rito - don't just put mechanics on a kit because they sound cool on paper, think about how the entire kit would play BOTH IN LCS AND IN BRONZE TIER and think long and hard about if it would actually work

Mãge1 votes

Yes, haha I have played Kat countless times.

One of the themes that I wanted to convey through this kit was that of which was expressed in Riot's Cinematic : A New Dawn as well as the theme expressed of her in their previous one where she's destroyed by a Garen ultimate. Katarina should feel and play like an assassin that aims daggers precisely and kills people with them.

With increased cooldown, Q can be a menacing burst tool if bounced properly. Take these numbers for example. And again, these do no represent anything more than a hypothetical balance situation. Numbers are always adjustable.

Q: 60/90/120/150/180 + 0.6 AP on a 21 second cooldown.

They don't seem impressive. After all, Annie can accomplish the same thing if not better with a 4 second cooldown spell. However, you have to keep in mind Katarina's reset potential and her lack of resources. The way Katarina would defeat her opponents with this kit would be to land the second bounce on the enemy laner, which would deal an additional 50% damage.

Q: 90/135/180/225/270 + 0.9 AP on a 21 second cooldown.

Now the the Q is impressive because Katarina managed to bounce it onto her enemy with the second bounce. That's not even including the fact that if she hits the second bounce at all, the blade will always return to her (unless she's in a duo lane).

So the Q with perfect play would be...

90/135/180/225/270 + 0.9 AP on a 12.6 second cooldown. That's pretty impressive, considering Katarina's damage currently, which is (including the mark)...

75/115/155/195/235 + 0.6 AP on an average 9 second cooldown.

A 90% ability power ratio also puts the second bounce of her Q on par with some of the most powerful burst abilities in the game.

Her waveclear would be impacted, but you can last-hit with the ability, which would put it at a 4-ish second cooldown when the blade returns to you.

Shunpo plays like Bladesurge. Enemies that expect Bouncing Blades to be on cooldown for another 4 seconds would be unpleasantly outplayed if Katarina were to Shunpo kill a minion and score a surprise kill that way.

Back to the theme, though, of Blade Assassin. The cone was in part to mimic the effect Katarina's ultimate has right now on opponents. The way her current ultimate works, she doesn't feel like a blade tossing assassin. Its range is too short. In exchange for some 360 coverage, Katarina can satisfy the feel of Blade Assassin. Her enemies run directly away from her most of the time, anyway, so the cone wouldn't change that. But if she positions with Shunpo in a spot where her cone would mean impending doom for her enemies, that's the kind of positional expertise I want masters of the Blade Assassin to feel (imagine being in the perfect spot where your cone covers bot lane and your opposing enemy bot laners have nowhere to run, since your ultimate covers the length of brush they're trying to hide in and escape through).

Good points!

JedenVojak8 votes

Passive - this change basically deletes the entire point of the passive which is reset chaining. She will have no choice but to build CDR now.

Q - the fact that this has a 20 second cooldown, while also being interceptable makes it useless. It's fine in its current bouncy iteration.

W - Assassins need to instantly burst people down, yet this ability does no damage unless the target has a lot of health, and low health. This is just bad.

E - Shunpo should not be used as a CS tool - it is an initiation/escape tool.

R - No. Just No. This is basically a mega-gimped version of the Miss fortunes ult, which can only hit 3 people, doesn't benefit from items for "reasons" yet is still interruptible and still locks her in place.

Current Katarina is just fine - she centers around chaining her damage off of resets. If she's not doing enough damage she just needs a small damage buff. Making champions less reliable is NEVER a good change.

DreamCrushed7 votes

You sir, are very dedicated. I do not actually play kat, nor have I even played against her recently, but I am aware of her lack of complex mechanics. I'm not sure what dedicated kat players would think, but I like the changes. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Mãge6 votes

Oh wow. Thank you so much. Your kind words really mean a lot to me!

YCitizenSnipsY7 votes

So with these changes you are basically trying to make her unnviable right? Look at those abilities and tell me one champions she doesn't get shit on in lane by. Squishy Melee champoion with no range wave clear and excessively long cooldowns that don't appear to decrease with level. Also making her ult a rip off of Miss Fortunes isn't very creative. You took her damage from W. Took her damage reduction from E. Took her resets from passive. And took here waveclear from Q and instead gave it a gimmick that is a pretty much identical to Miss Fortunes Q, again with ripping off her, with some random CDR.

Well if you hate Katarina and want to see her unplayable congratulation, I don't want to sound mean but with this rework their isn't a mid laner that wont demolish her.

Sinister Anubis5 votes

this would break her entirerly and she would needed buffed hard with her base dmg across the board besides her ulti. She can not do what she is ment to do if she has to choose one ability to use after she kills one target. Also she can't kill one target by her self. So no i disagree with this entirely and i am a season 1 Katarina main.

Transgressor4 votes

Katarina is not a circus attraction, she's not the knife tossing maiden. She's a fucking Noxian assasin. She got her scar by going apeshit and murdering the shit out of everyone against all odds, not because she threw a knife and it bounced back at her face.

Q=AP Draven. Too many passives, weak as hell. W=Purposeless, literally. Too many passives. E=Ridiculously reliant for her to do any sort of damage and have some teamfight contribution. Kill targets with a point-and-click blink to reduce cooldowns?? When you have 2 AoE abilities AND an AoE ult?! The playerbase has already gotten tired of the mobility creep, why would you add a champion whose viability relies on getting mobility by killing enemies. Too many passives. R=Well that's no longer a Lotus is it? Rename it to Death Cone. What's the point of the 120 degree angle. Why are you rewarding an ability that gets stronger the more it's channeled, with more power whenever you channel it? Death Lotus is meant to last for at least long enough for Katarina to start reseting. It was never ment to be a "fuck you I'm discount Miss Fortune" button. And she gets punished for building CDR with such high cooldowns and bad abilities.

You give value to a freaking blink that reduces ability AND item cooldowns when it kills an enemy. What's the point? Channeling the ult will always root you anyway. Not to mention, with the changes you're suggesting, you'll have Katarina Shunpooing minion waves to get cooldowns back up. It's fucking retarded: imagine a Yasuo, but instead of the dash he now magically appears on top of every minion in the lane, one after the other like wack-a-mole. Once he's killed all the minions, he gets free abilities again.

Given Katarina is one of THE MOST vulnerable to CC champions in the game, giving her an ultimate that relies so heavily on channeling is dumb, and does not work. So we basically have an AP draven catching knives with no point in trying to harass from bouncing on minions and punishes your damage output if you fail to catch an axe, with a useless AoE W that only serves as a speed boost and a meager slow, which is pointless in itself because she gets infinite FLASHES from FLASHING; a Yasuo dash that's now actually a blink that potentially resets all abilities as well as item cooldowns(lolwat) effectively getting infinite mobility as long as you use your flash on all the enemies to kill them, and a Death Lotus that's no longer a lotus but a "don't walk there plz" button that gets rewarded for channeling when the rest of the kit is about getting flashes by killing enemies using your flash while catching draven axes at the same time.

when her opponents expect her abilities to be on cooldown

They are not expecting shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit; they see you blinking like crazy on top of their entire minion wave, they're going to know you're stacking cooldown reduction, why else would you use it that way?

except extra ability power gained from Rabadon’s Deathcap

What's the point of this? Again, too many redundant passives.

if Katarina makes the poor decision of wasting her ultimate in a suboptimal fashion, she might become her opponent's next juicy target instead.

She's already vulnerable as fuck to CC, so you give her infinite flashes, and then you force her to stay stationary while channeling her ultimate if she's to do any actual damage in a teamfight(because her W is shit, her Q is on 20seconds cooldown because if you build CDR you get punished for it and your infinite flashes do no real damage), thus getting herself exposed to her vulnerabilities. lol wat

Have you ever played Katarina? Were the cinematics an inspiration? Because that's dumb as hell, given the Rift has no gigantic trees, destructible environments, Nautilus is not as big as Godzilla and his E does not errupt have the map, an Ahri Q does not oneshot a Zyra, Graves can't detonate his ultimate to collapse a rock on top of Nautilus, Noxian guilotine does not propel Darius to the stratosphere not does it make him hover for 5 seconds, Graves can't use his shotgun to block damage. It's a cinematic, it has nothing to do with how the game works, it only takes thematic cohesion into account and everything else is made to feel as authentic as possible. The only realistic thing is how it takes at least 3 people to kill a Darius.

TL:DR=bad idea all around.

iAndyOppa2 votes

Damnnn Very Dedicated, could you possibly make one on Leblanc too?

Mãge2 votes

Leblanc's one of my favorite champions, what a coincidence. I've actually posted about her in the past. Here are some you can check out~

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xdroFBcn-when-leblanc-kills-a-champion-their-body-should-vanish-in-a-puff-of-smoke

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zav0gpnM-leblanc-the-deceiver-at-last-an-in-depth-rework-of-leagues-fanciest-burst-mage-assassin

Fowus2 votes

I really like the new ult keep it up

GetLeBonked2 votes

Can't say I really understand the new Q. How would an enemy champion intercept the return bounce if it goes straight back to Kat? It seems really difficult. And I don't really see/understand how the new Q makes mindgames in lane, it literally hits a target, then bounces to another target for more damage, unless you use it to last hit, whichcase you just get to use it again 4 seconds later. I like her W change though, a small portion of missing HP damage is fitting for her reset style. The cone ult change I'm not a fan of since her current ult I think is the most satisfying and core element of her kit, if Riot were to rework her gameplay I'm 99% sure the ultimate would be nearly identical to live.

Mãge1 votes

Leblanc, for example would be able to intercept the return with her distortion if Katarina bounces off two minions and then pop back to safety. Your jungler could also do it. Or if you're Braum/Yasuo you can outright screw up Katarina's day.

For less mobile champs, I'd imagine you would position aggressively ahead of your minions.

TASTE THE SAND2 votes

Hello! die hard kat main here willing to give input on this currently kat is an interesting champion that only does very well if played with a decent amount of knowledge or a comp focused around her- which isnt a bad thing just to make clear. she is super well known for being the assassin that brings literally nothing to a teamfight besides raw damage to clean up who DESPERATELY relies on her passive to be of any use which means that after a kill, if all three basic abilities dont get a reset, you are dead. thats it.

and for laning there is a heavy reliance on her q to farm about 2/3 of the time because melee into any sort of ranged champion or caster is going to make it really difficult to farm as well as the current short cooldown on her w to help either proc the q marks or do a basic attack w at the same time to last hit. thats current kat

as for this new kat its hard to say what will happen to her. these interesting individual cooldown reductions and her passive one isnt that bad. but her laning will most likely be a loss due to long cooldowns and as i said before teamfights with this kat will not be anything like it was before, turning assassinations into more sustained fights (removing the assassin like quality this champ is well known for) and adding a utility on her w kind of puts her in a weird spot because it wont have much use in anything really. if i wanted to ad a little something with my abilities i would get a crystal scepter so that i can help disengage with a q that will spread across the enemy team or for my ult that can help make it so that the enemy doesnt escape that channel (which this reworked ult doesnt allow)

so yea these are some thoughts from a kat main feel free to ask any questions if i missed any points which i probably did

Mãge1 votes

That's pretty interesting, actually. I have to bring up your last idea first, though, because it's one that I added in after thinking about how powerful the new ultimate would be with its added range. I didn't want Katarina players to build tanky and ult people to death from afar with a slowing, unescapable ultimate. That's why I added the point of not applying Ludens/Rylai's and the like. Maybe it's not needed at all.

And yea, who knows what would happen with a kit like this. At this point it's purely speculative. I do hope Riot makes Kat more interesting and dynamic to play though, so that they don't have to keep nerfing her because of her lack of skill required to succeed with and lack of counterplay when succeeded with.

How do you feel about the Q? I thought the bounce mechanics would be very interesting to play with and against, especially with her reset passive and how she decides to use it while her blades are flying, bouncing from target to target and back to her.

TASTE THE SAND1 votes

{quoted}

That's pretty interesting, actually. I have to bring up your last idea first, though, because it's one that I added in after thinking about how powerful the new ultimate would be with its added range. I didn't want Katarina players to build tanky and ult people to death from afar with a slowing, unescapable ultimate. That's why I added the point of not applying Ludens/Rylai's and the like. Maybe it's not needed at all.

And yea, who knows what would happen with a kit like this. At this point it's purely speculative. I do hope Riot makes Kat more interesting and dynamic to play though, so that they don't have to keep nerfing her because of her lack of skill required to succeed with and lack of counterplay when succeeded with.

How do you feel about the Q? I thought the bounce mechanics would be very interesting to play with and against, especially with her reset passive and how she decides to use it while her blades are flying, bouncing from target to target and back to her.

i just wanna be clear, im all aboard adding interesting mechanics to her, especially when it makes getting multi kills feel more rewarding rather then doing the same qewrewewewewewewew endlessly. the only thing that i felt was off about the new q was that its cooldown was too long for it to be a reliable tool for farming and/or harass in lane.

Mãge1 votes

Oh. For clarity's sake then: If Kat hits enemy champ without bouncing at least once, cd is 21. If she hits champ and it bounces to minion and then back to you, its cd is 12.6 (not including time it takes for the blade to travel). If she kills anything with either first or second bounce and it goes back to her, cd is 4 (again not including blade travel time). If the blade, while returning, hits an enemy champion that intercepts its path, cd is 21.

Should I put this in the actual post along with the Q mechanics breakdown?

TASTE THE SAND1 votes

{quoted}

Oh. For clarity's sake then: If Kat hits enemy champ without bouncing at least once, cd is 21. If she hits champ and it bounces to minion and then back to you, its cd is 12.6 (not including time it takes for the blade to travel). If she kills anything with either first or second bounce and it goes back to her, cd is 4 (again not including blade travel time). If the blade, while returning, hits an enemy champion that intercepts its path, cd is 21.

Should I put this in the actual post along with the Q mechanics breakdown?

oh ok i didnt fully grasp the numbers by looking at just percents. that seems a lot better, and adds a kind of risk and reward kind of system to it.

also to add a thought of my own: rather then her passive being something like a leblanc mimic (where she can use the same ability twice in a row) maybe it allows you to choose only one ability of your three to refresh the cooldown. idk just a thought you dont have to listen

Mãge1 votes

No, no. Your ideas are as legitimate as any others. I'm curious as to how you'd put that in game though, the choice thing.

I was thinking something along the lines of, the ability you chose to kill your opponents with would "choose" for you, in addition to Shunpo always refreshing.

Teemo or Feedmo2 votes

she's fine where she is,no need to rework imo

kaltenashes2 votes

no, not everyone needs rework... CC>katarina

Pale Pirate2 votes

This seems to change katarina from a get in the middle of the teamfight and get reset-multikills champion to a long-ranged poker who goes in to finish of her target. I don't like this for 3 reasons:

  1. This is an identity nidalee occupies.
  2. It can be frustating to fight someone like that.
  3. This is not Katarina's identity.
Mãge1 votes

Thanks for your list format, makes it much easier for me to reply!

  1. Katarina's identity won't mimic Nidalee's completely. Assassins are supposed to poke or wait for opportunities to finish off a target. Some have more burst than others in exchange for other weaknesses. At the end of the day, Katarina will never play just like Nidalee and vice versa. She'll always have access to her powerful resets and AoE assassination potential, but this kit just forces her to think about how to execute the right combinations instead of just spamming all her abilities at once. Her speed pentakill potential remains unchanged with skilled play.

2)I agree, but it's Katarina's identity. This kit doesn't make Katarina do anything she doesn't already do. The goal was just to make it more interesting for the Katarina player and give opponents slightly more mechanical counterplay potential than whats currently offered by the live Katarina kit.

  1. Her identity hopefully hasn't changed. Her pattern of poking is still Bouncing Blades. Her AoE combo is still Shunpo into Death Lotus. I don't believe her kit's been changed that much. The main difference lies in her Bouncing Blades' new mechanics, which still allows for her to instantly refresh its cooldown when she kills a champion with it, as long as no other champions intercept the blade as it flies back to her hands. She can still Shunpo > Kill someone > and Shunpo out, or pull off quick double kills.
Alex Hamilton1 votes

Interesting concept. I can see this working with a few tweaks.

delonix1 votes

You should save this somewhere in case it gets deleted. I'm pretty sure that champions concepts belong in the Concepts & Creations section, and I think mods can delete but not move threads.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

I cant wait for katarina to get nerfed. actually. pretty much her and alkali and irelia. they do too much damage. and have too much gapclosers

mid slayer Kata1 votes

pls dont remake her she is perfect

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