Morde, Veigar, and a Question for Riot.

ArkenStorm··1 votes·413 views

People have been complaining about the damage nerfs, but they didn't look at the other parts. his health costs were basically halved, his cooldowns were reduced, and he gets a cast of e on himself and an ally. Taric heal, except both get full benefits AND mobility. Problem is, people like the whole burst everyone and get their ghost. Riot has a good philosophy there. Now before you start yelling at me for "Riot-worshiping," Let me explain. It's a good philosophy, they're just NOT APPLYING IT where it should be, i.e. zed. There is too much mobility in this game, either that or it is VERY misplaced. high base ms people should not have a lot of, if any, mobility. I think Pantheon is a great example. his major mobility comes from his high base ms, and a short range jump stun on a fairly long cooldown. I think zed is a great example of the opposite. relatively high base ms, and a metric ton of mobility(figuratively speaking of course). Lee sin is also a horrible offender.

Back to the point. Mordekaiser got mobility, lower CDs, lower health costs in exchange for lower damage. Honestly it just makes it so gunblade is again a good item on him instead of WotA. With veigar, his only defenseive tool was his e. he has low base ms, and no defensive option, literally NO CC except for his e cage. INCREASE THE HITBOX. MAKE IT .5 SECOND DELAY. also raise his base ms. really though, most of the issues in this game account to mobility. What good is damage if you can't get anywhere to do it, or get out fast enough to live after you deal damage? What good is it to have 5000 AP if you can't go anywhere with it or stay out of danger long enough to DO anything with it? I'm not saying give veigar mobility abilities, just raise his base ms and give him an easier time with his cage. Irrelevant to the rest of this, meteor delay should be reduced to .75 if the cage delay stays at .75 If it changed to .5 delay on cage, 1 second delay on w would be fine. maybe increase the hitbox. increase the hitbox on his e to better match the visuals. As of right now, his e stuns only if you hit the small line to the center of the champ. it should be ANY part of the champ.

@Riot now, why don't you listen to the community? is it because of stats? Because it would not be valid to assume the proportion of the people who post on the boards and are vocal about this/upvote posts aren't a good representation of the whole community, the whole playerbase? Let me tell you something. Those who do not get on the boards just accept what happens. Even if they dislike it, they'll try their best to accept it and adapt. That's not a bad thing, but if they will accept it anyways, why not listen to those of us who post on the boards? People have good ideas. Champion ideas, unique ones, that seem interesting. Ideas of how to change champions in an acceptable way to the community(obviously it can't be exact, but tweaks can happen). Maybe I'm just blowing smoke and confronting you about nothing, maybe these community-suggested changes are coming, somewhere down the road. As of now, it hasn't happened(meaningful zed nerfs, lee sin nerfs, sona buffs, veigar changes to actually buff instead of nerf him...). All I ask is that if you listen to the community, more players will want to play more, and that means more possibility of money, because let's face it, it's free, but those skins tho.....yummm(DJ sona, final boss veigar, etc.)

Also something else to say. If you make it so all champions are close to equal and everyone can be viable, gues what? LC$ BIG PLAYZ WILL HAPPEN WITH EVERY CHAMPION NOT JUST LEE SIN/ZED/ETC. Imagine that. People can make awesome and big plays without having to use people who are just made that way. it will actually depend on skill. Hecarim will knock people into skillshots. It could happen.

TL;DR: I have a dream that one day, Riot will listen to the community and realize that those who aren't vocal just accept it.

5 Comments

SmokingPuffin2 votes

Also something else to say. If you make it so all champions are close to equal and everyone can be viable, gues what? LC$ BIG PLAYZ WILL HAPPEN WITH EVERY CHAMPION NOT JUST LEE SIN/ZED/ETC. Imagine that. People can make awesome and big plays without having to use people who are just made that way. it will actually depend on skill. Hecarim will knock people into skillshots. It could happen.

I think you made a lot of good points, but not this one.

Let me remind you of the state of top lane two years ago: Renekton versus Shyvana. Boring stat ball bruisers doing bruiser things. We had at least a year of this and ain't nobody making Renekton or Shyvana highlight reels on the youtubes. The only saving grace for that lane was that we could point the camera elsewhere.

Now Riot has made changes that favor teleport tops with team fighting abilities. People make interesting plays on Maokai and Lissandra that they never could on the old Renekton Bar champs. That's a very good thing for the game as a whole.

To me, the current question is what Riot should do with all this old design cruft they have lying around. Tons of samey feeling bruisers with low-counterplay, ball of stats kits exist. They don't really have a role in the game anymore because Riot has, quite rightly, decided they're not as fun as the other possibilities. We can't just leave them like that indefinitely, though, right?

TL;DR: I have a dream that one day, Riot will listen to the community and realize that those who aren't vocal just accept it.

People mostly vote with their feet. Very few people ever write letters to their congressmen, but tons of people will vote for another dude. Same deal here -- Riot is very attentive about listening to the community, but that doesn't mean listening to the vocal minority that posts on forums about how they hate Lee Sin. Turns out, the bulk of the community thinks Lee Sin is totally awesome, and the complainers here are a niche market.

ArkenStorm1 votes

I'm confused on how your first argument is disagreeing with my quote? By saying if everyone was made equal, I was meaning that all the old champions could be changed, like you said. Sorry if that was unclear.

I disagree with your second point. yeah, people think he's awesome, but only because he can do everything. I know stats, and I know it isn't valid to assume that the people who post on here are an acceptable sample. it's not random sampling, it's voluntary response. However, knowing that most of the community just plays with what's given them and enforces the fact that lee sin/zed/etc shouldnt be changed because people play them as they are.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

I'm confused on how your first argument is disagreeing with my quote? By saying if everyone was made equal, I was meaning that all the old champions could be changed, like you said. Sorry if that was unclear.

I presumed that you were arguing for buffs to a bunch of weak champions, so that they were as strong as the current meta champions. "LC$ BIG PLAYS" will never happen with Renekton unless we rework his kit in a big way. If you intended to launch tons of reworks, that's an interesting conversation to have.

I disagree with your second point. yeah, people think he's awesome, but only because he can do everything.

Hard to say why people think he's awesome. What's clear is that a truly ludicrous number of people are willing to lose tons of games on him. He's one of the only high popularity champions with a win rate way south of 50% (the other ones of note are Vayne and Thresh). All of these champions draw complaints, despite losing tons of games.

I don't really think the "he can do everything" thing is required to make Lee popular. I suspect it's the flashy plays thing that makes people play him (this is pure conjecture). People see a ward->W->QRQ and are like "ZOMG I wanna do that". Suppose we nerfed his clear or sustain, I think people would be pretty okay with that.

Of course, if we're balancing for solo queue, Lee has zero need for nerfs, and could actually stand for buffs. That's another story, though -- just what level of play is Riot balancing for? They don't seem clear on the matter.

ArkenStorm1 votes

Ah, my bad. no, I don't want this game to turn into DOTA where everything is OP, so nothing is.

ArkenStorm1 votes

also its really a problem with his ability to build extremely tank with maybe one damage item and still be nearly impossible to kill and still be able to kill everyone. I think it's his sustain and ratios that should be nerfed. possibly just remove the spellvamp, reduce his base stats to be less innately tanky, not even nerf ratios. it's just his ability to do both.

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