You know who LOVES the AP Item changes?

ArkenStorm·Jun 18, 2015·27 votes·5,313 views

Some of these(Vlad) might become flat out broken.

I'm excited mostly for mordy, kennen, and Veigar. With Veigar, the new seraphs will give roughly 150 ap because mana(it gives roughly 130 as it is now), and the extra ap amping from new deathcap..... Mordekaiser absolutely loves more ap, better spellvamp, and liandrys+rylais combo even better now(thats for anyone who likes to use this) Kennen loves Liandrys upgrade, maybe even nashor's tooth?(very doubtful tho, but hey, it could happen)

I'm just happy(even tho morde destroys her) that this may push lestronk and kat out of the top positions, out of the pick-or-ban stuff. I don't know about you guys, but I think AP guys are back in business!

EDIT: for those who don't know/haven't seen, here is the link: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/06/red-post-collection-core-ap-item-pass.html

152 Comments

KingsgraveJun 18, 201522 votes

Vladimir Rumble Cassiopeia will be nuked by the nerf bat immediately if these changes go thru

ArkenStormJun 18, 20152 votes

exactly. the constant slowing by rumble and vlad..... and cass will just have butt tons of ap, and then when you add in spellvamp before resistances? :P

I Main SwainJun 18, 20152 votes

as someone who recently picked up cass and who has a brother who plays a ton of vlad and rumble, while it would make me sad it would be 100% justified

TwëekJun 18, 20152 votes

Rumble with the new item 3151 item 3116 combo will be obscenely strong. 40% slow on his Q on top of the E and the ult?

NilokJun 18, 201515 votes

Malzahar "My Liandry's Torment now has AP, suffer in body and mind!"

J EpsteinJun 18, 20152 votes

SSSHHH! He was already strong enough before his core items are getting buffed, I don't want people to start playing him now and then he gets nerfed.

Photos of GhostsJun 18, 20158 votes

Chogath item 3116 item 3151 item 3027 item 3115 ROAR

DanofDemaciaJun 18, 20157 votes

I'm scared people with static builds like lux are just gonna be hurt by the lower ap.

ArkenStormJun 18, 20158 votes

Enlighten me, what is a "static lux build?" As far as I know, it's pretty much the same as any other ap mage right now.

DanofDemaciaJun 18, 20153 votes

Chalice or morellicon rabadons zhonyas ludena and void + sorcerer shoes. Zyra can build liandries and some people build roa. champs that build like lux seem to be getting straight nerfed for other champs to get diverse builds. Lux and champs like her are never going to build roa or archangel staff or liandries just not in their build path this is literally going to change nothing for some champs.

ArkenStormJun 18, 20153 votes

thanks for the enlightenment. 5 MEJAIS DEATHCAP OP

I Main SwainJun 18, 20156 votes

that is a ridiculously close minded way of playing the game and it honestly isn't even true. you can build roa on basically any ap champ.

DanofDemaciaJun 18, 20154 votes

You can build a hydra on a ranged and runnans on a melee you can do what u want doesnt mean its affective

I Main SwainJun 18, 20152 votes

that argument is entirely invalid because they are specifically built for the opposite roles. that's no different than comparing building roa on lux to building bf sword on lux

DanofDemaciaJun 18, 20152 votes

U can build a roa on lux but u are missing out of the cdr that chalice or morellicon its overall just smarter. You can build a runaans on jinx but a bork is smarter.

ShadowParkerJun 18, 20152 votes

I build Roa on Lux. The extra health and mana is very vital to lux. Specifically the health, no other item in Lux's build gives her health.

I usually proceed to get Mejais because ya know, you have health to live now. Than it goes item 3020 item 3089 item 3157 item 3135

DanofDemaciaJun 18, 20157 votes

Your building lux with no cdr? yOUR Doing something wrong

I Main SwainJun 18, 20151 votes

well first off you don't have to get it over chalice or morel, second you can get cdr from many other sources.

DanofDemaciaJun 18, 20152 votes

List all the many options of cdr? Black cleaver ? Shoes? Twin shadows?

I Main SwainJun 18, 20152 votes

well as viable items on lux (including the support item) there are:

frostqueen's claim Ionian boots morello chalice twin shadows wota

and note that if you get Ionian (which I usually do) that's 20% cdr knocked out plus the masteries you should have that give another 5% that leaves you only needing 15% to get max cdr.

DanofDemaciaJun 18, 20151 votes

THE WHOLE POINT WAS OPTIONS OTHER THAN MORELLO AND CHALICE

I Main SwainJun 18, 20152 votes

lol first off, you need to chill

second, I was just listing all of the options she has (that she would realistically get at least, so no nashors or banner)

third, it isn't like you have to have full cdr on lux. if you think you do, then you have a problem with adapting.

Mandang0Jun 18, 20151 votes

Fine, how about "you can build mallet on ADC" or "you could build Atma's on ADC". The fact is that Lux, like an ADC, is balanced around her range removing a lot of the necessity to build defense. As a result, the mana items that don't require her to pay for health are better options and she's balanced around that optimal build. Anyone can build suboptimally - that build shouldn't reflect on that champion's balance, however.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20151 votes

mallet is actually really good on adc's and atmas not only doenst exist but it was a horrible item anyways, whereas roa is fantastic. she isn't balanced around her optimal build, the optimal build is based on her stats and abilities.

Mandang0Jun 18, 20152 votes

Neither Atma's or Mallet has been built on carries extensively for the same reason - it's an inefficient purchase in terms of what those champions need to perform their roles.

It's the same reason bruisers/fighters don't build ADC items. The items are still very gold efficient, it's just not the stats that those champions need.

Every champion in the game is balanced around their optimal build, if for no other reason than the fact that it's what people have to play against. If a build arises that's better than the current build, that build takes over. A clear example of this is when the 'mage Ahri' players complained about Ahri getting nerfs because her DFG build was too strong.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20151 votes

roa isn't an inefficient item on lux, it's very efficient just like it is on almost every mage

Mandang0Jun 18, 20153 votes

You don't seem to be grasping the distinction I'm making.

RoA is a gold efficient item. Lux uses mana. RoA still isn't an efficient item on her because she doesn't need the health, due to her being a very long range mage with a shield.

IE is an efficient item. Jax uses autoattacks that can crit. IE isn't an efficient item on Jax because he needs defense to stay alive, unlike the ADCs who prefer the IE because (much like Lux) their range makes defense less important.

In your example build from earlier, you're spending 3800 gold on RoA and Ionian's, giving Lux 80 AP (once RoA stacks) and 15% CDR. Morello alone exceeds that (by 5% CDR) for 2300 gold. Grail is 20 AP short of Morello and costs 400 gold more, but comes with mana regen to make up a lot of the difference. Both of those items can be purchased with either Ionians for even more CDR or with Sorcs for magic pen, which is a very strong stat on Lux. You shouldn't be needing RoA's health on Lux if you're decent at positioning.

VekknaJun 18, 20152 votes

This will actually be a big buff to builds like this since you won't have to worry about the repeated power dips while saving up 1600+ gold. This should result in a more linear power progression. No, you're not spiking quite as high after a big buy, but you're not flatlined as long while saving.

This is also a MASSIVE QoL buff to champs with these kinds of builds in close or losing games. The only way you can afford stairstep power levels is by snowballing. Adding more frequent, smaller steps will help struggling AP champs stay as relevant as possible instead of becoming cannon fodder for the 15 minutes it takes to get 1600 gold in a hard match.

RIP Tahm KenchJun 18, 20157 votes

No mention of Viktor, his hex core now way out classes ap items with raw stat efficiency, especially when used with death cap.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20157 votes

Swain I am going to be a god

TrídentJun 18, 20157 votes

Teemo + New item 3151 item 3115 No no..... PLS NO summoner 14 item 3751 Teemo

You forgot to put Satan in the post.

As for Veigar, The new +5% AP will make Veigar way stronger ;o I only built item 3040 on Veigar several times and stopped because I thought it was inefficient... probably gonna change that after the rework

Vistha KaiJun 18, 20152 votes

It's inefficient because you need to delay your build. It's actually very strong if you manage to get past that.

Rustling BushJun 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

+ New No no..... PLS NO

You forgot to put Satan in the post.

As for Veigar, The new +5% AP will make Veigar way stronger ;o I only built on Veigar several times and stopped because I thought it was inefficient... probably gonna change that after the rework

"there is no hell, only teemo"

props for who ever gets this reference

3TWarriorJun 18, 20152 votes

The sad part of this is, they say that these builds haven't hit PBE yet...ludens was already nerfed from 120 - 100 so this means that either that site doesn't have its sources up to date or the developers "missed one"

ayNigerianPrinceJun 18, 201513 votes

{quoted}

The sad part of this is, they say that these builds haven't hit PBE yet...ludens was already nerfed from 120 - 100 so this means that either that site doesn't have its sources up to date or the developers "missed one"

Pretty sure luden's is only 100 ap on Twisted Treeline. Should still be 120 on SR.

OverpoweredSoapJun 18, 20152 votes

I don't really understand the item changes, so could someone please enlighten (heh oops,) me on how this would affect Karma ?

Mister SupportJun 18, 20152 votes

You forgot two very important ones. Amumu Elise . With the Liandry's, Rylai's and soon to be new Abyssal Scepter, the amount of damage they will have is going to be absolutely lovely.

BodyByDaveJun 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadCast Fenris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TQ30gV9b,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2015-06-18T17:55:00.246+0000)

You forgot two very important ones. . With the Liandry's, Rylai's and soon to be new Abyssal Scepter, the amount of damage they will have is going to be absolutely lovely.

You have an interesting definition of soon my friend, seeing as how this has been shelved and won't likely see 2015.

ArkenStormJun 22, 20151 votes

who said it was shelved? if I missed something, link me?

McAllisterJun 18, 20151 votes

Ideas, based on champs whose AAs have AP ratios:

Kassadin ::: item 3003 item 3020 item 3027 item 3089 item 3100 item 3135 Chogath ::: item 3116 item 3111 item 3115 item 3157 item 3001 Teemo ::: item 3151 item 3285 Orianna :::

In short, I really like the Nashor's change, but I think the changes to Archangel's, RoA and Liandry's are great too.

Jeddy017Jun 18, 20153 votes

Speaking of Mages & AA,would TwistedFate count? I always thought item 3115 might have been a good choice on him.I mean,2 of his abilities are auto attack based.It should synergies while with them like item 3100 does.The extra attack speed will help him proc his E more often (even though his E already gives him attack speed as a passive). I understand it probably not going to be a core item.He never need it to be useful,I just see it as an item that could still works on him.

It Hertz When IPJun 18, 20152 votes

Don't forget the world's smallest ninja: Kennen

Vistha KaiJun 18, 20151 votes

First of all Mordekaiser was suppose to have his shield generation reworked in the similar manner to this WotA change.

MatezoideJun 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TQ30gV9b,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2015-06-18T18:34:58.036+0000)

First of all Mordekaiser was suppose to have his shield generation reworked in the similar manner to this WotA change.

And it was shit because it didnt actually scale with the damage he is building.

Vistha KaiJun 18, 20151 votes

But it was scaling with his health and the number of targets hit so it wasn't affected by any kind of damage reduction.

MatezoideJun 18, 20151 votes

True, however, the new WotA heals based on the damage it would deal before the damage reduction.

I will admit my english isnt too good, so i get before and after mixed a few times, but i am fairly sure it means Mordekaiser will be healed based on how much it would do on a 0 Magic Resist enemy.

While the new WotA is similar to his Reworked shield, it would be a nerf in comparasion to live because the % he gets as shield currently is fairly high.

Meanwhile on WotA, he is getting more health than ever. This new change makes Mordekaiser want to build more AP, while the shield change would force him to build health instead.

It ends up hurting his early game slighty, but buffs his late, by my calcs.

Vistha KaiJun 18, 20151 votes

Making him build HP was kinda the point of his rework.

But then they left him with lowering damage and CD on one of his spells, fixing his ult (which should be done a long time ago anyway) and adding a gimmick to his W.

MatezoideJun 18, 20152 votes

Removing the amount of AD his ghost receives until level 16 (If Mord didnt build a Gunblade) and preventing Mord from getting AP regardless of who he ulted sounds like a nerf to me.