If we go through with proposed adc changes...

GigglesO·Dec 24, 2018·3 votes·1,444 views

Armor needs to mean something again...

That is all I would like to discuss.

My personal opinion is that ad damage is getting to be overloaded and the crit item changes are just the icing on the cake.

13 Comments

RagnaveilDec 24, 20183 votes

If anything, defensive stats should mean something PERIOD. Too much cookie cutter stuff has been done to make said stats feel strong in one aspect, but garbage in another.

FarkinobDec 24, 20182 votes

I respectfully disagree as they already do mean something; and the tanky champions have great abilities.

InfernapeDec 24, 20183 votes

The abundance of true damage in the game makes playing tanks feel like shit.

True damage used to be a niche mechanic that was tacked onto a few champs in differing amounts. Nowadays a goddamn rune makes 20% of your armour worthless.

FarkinobDec 24, 20181 votes

Read my comment below, I did some math showing that armor is worth it. Even with the rune, armor is still worth it.

ArtumisPrimeDec 30, 20181 votes

Your math doesn’t show that armor is worthwhile relative to damage items. It shows that there are breakpoints where armor is better than health, which is extremely obvious.

Also EHP to gold ratio is a useless stat. You’re better off comparing just the gain in EHP.

RagnaveilDec 25, 20181 votes

Which said abilities are mostly "just cc a target" and thats about it, and what have we learned with champs having too much cc? They become a problem, which is why Tanks are struggling: Outside of cc, their one reliable thing of soaking damage has been slowly but surely removed in favor of cc trains. Why do you think Sej and Zac got the short end of the stick and got nailed with nerfs, and Sej with further nerfs to make her almost unplayable in any environment outside of pro (who also later abandoned the champ). When I think Tanks, I think of beefy frontlines that can take beatings harder and longer than any other champ. I don't think of a class that is just plain cc train with few gameplay tweaks here and there. Why else are tanks "boring" to play other than that reason alone? CC durations should be lowered in favor of tanks being able to survive damage in general. We have so many things in the game now that a tank meta can't persist for even a patch.

FarkinobDec 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Armor needs to mean something again...

That is all I would like to discuss.

My personal opinion is that ad damage is getting to be overloaded and the crit item changes are just the icing on the cake.

I main ADC and am looking very forward to this [slayer-jinx-wink]

In all honesty though, I agree that ADC NEEDS TO BE BUFFED. I am seeing too many aatrox/support or other bruiser/support combos working bot lane against meta and they shred. I have even gotten curb stomped by a bruiser being fed and orb walking. These 2 things are why I agree with Riot

edit: to directly answer your question, having armor be a direct counter to the changes would mitigate Riot's fixes to the role

GigglesODec 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

edit: to directly answer your question, having armor be a direct counter to the changes would mitigate Riot's fixes to the role

Armor already means little though. All the strongest champs are building damage +hp items...

FarkinobDec 24, 20181 votes

Maybe it could be tweaked, but I never run into the issue of me being able to easily just AA a tank with lots of armor; in fact I avoid AAing armor champs (even when I'm fed) because it counters my AA hard

edit: you can also just set up a little graph using basic algebra to see what the optimal strat is for mr/armor/health ; a few years ago I realized that getting health items initially was better than getting armor/mr items initially, especially since you can expand those items later on. I might make a graph since I'm bored tonight lol

FarkinobDec 24, 20181 votes

Here ya go, https://www.desmos.com/calculator/bmodimadek.

I'll use Volibear as an example. We'll keep the math simple.

According to the wiki, at level 5 (a typical first B) volibear buying 1 cloth armor (costs 300 gold) would give 15 armor and add an effective health (45.8 armor to 60.8 armor) and a base health of 850.2 at level 5

(1 + (45.8 / 100)) * 850.2 = 1239 (Control) (1 + (60.8 / 100)) * 850.2 = 1367

The difference is 1367 - 1239 = 128 The effective health / gold ratio is 128 / 300 = 0.4267

When buying a 1 ruby crystal (400 gold) adds 150 health (850.2 to 1000.2)

(1 + (45.8 / 100)) * 850.2 = 1239 (Control) (1 + (45.8 / 100)) * 1000.2 = 1458

The difference is 1458 - 1239 = 219 The effective health / gold ratio is 219 / 400 = 0.5475

At level 18, lets assume you build a warmogs with a Titanic Hydra ( 2046.5 at lvl 18 + 1250 health = 3296 ) Using the same formula, and buying the same items

Cloth Armor: (1 + (94.5 / 100)) * 3296.5 = 6411 (Control) (1 + (105.5 / 100)) * 3296.5 = 6774

The difference is 6774 - 6411 = 363 **The effective health / gold ratio is 363 / 300 = 1.21 ** Ruby Crystal: (1 + (94.5 / 100)) * 3296.5 = 6411 (Control) (1 + (94.5 / 100)) * 3446.5 = 6703

The difference is 6703 - 6411 = 292 The effective health / gold ratio is 292 / 400 = 0.73

This, in a nutshell, shows that early on, getting health items gives you a slight edge HOWEVER this tilts in armors favor later on, when teamfights/etc are happening more than early game. It's not broken.

GigglesODec 24, 20183 votes

Armor doesn't mean anything between current iedge, conqueror, black cleaver, last wisperor.

Its basically butter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uOOxFQI3fU

It doesn't matter how much effective health I have if the enemy is doing 800 crits at 2.5 AS.

https://imgur.com/JtSAmo7

That was already through 40% damage reduction. (after armor pen)

OH boy I get to live for 4 seconds even though I have 100% of my purchases into defense.

FarkinobDec 24, 20181 votes

It kinda does, it's not like crits negate armor as the same formula is used. The video you used looks like the folks are fed; like I said maybe it could be tweaked but it's not as useless as you make it out to be sir/ma'am!

GigglesODec 24, 20182 votes

It was Frozen Heart, Orn's Fire cape, and thornmail...

Everyone was level 18.

It isn't that the enemy is fed, its that against mixed damage teams, players can only sink 3 items into armor.

Armor needs a better value.