At least Ryze's many reworks seemed like they were trying to improve counterplay.

Over Innsmouth·Nov 28, 2016·31 votes·2,232 views

Hahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha.

60 Comments

JunkοNov 28, 20169 votes

Do you always come to boards to complain when you fed your ass off against a champion you don't know how to play against? Like c'mon 3 hours ago you played against a Cass that got fed, you could at least wait a few hours so it isn't as obvious.

CowseedNov 28, 20164 votes

Sad thing is she wasn't even monstrously fed. Meaning this dude's team could deal with Cass but he chose to come here and whine.

ZoeeeeNov 28, 20164 votes

I don't like that Ryze scales off of ap AND mana so he gets so much free damage. Also his snare is a bit oppressive.

DynikusNov 28, 20163 votes

have you considered learning how to play against cass rather than QQ about there not being counterplay? Early game she has mana problems, and if she doesn't land poisons, she does no damage. Dodge poisons and punish her for missing.

WoonStruckNov 28, 201630 votes

She has mana problems? Are you joking? You can get perfect farm without even worrying about mana due to her E's refund mechanic. You can't punish her for missing Q because the CD is almost non-existent.

She can trade just as hard as most mid-laners early even if she misses her Q. If she lands Q, you're almost forced to flash unless she somehow misses the follow-up.

By the way, after she buys Tear, she literally gains mana for CSing with E. You cannot claim she has mana issues.

PoskeNov 28, 20165 votes

After she buys tear.....

So she is buying tear

If a champion has no mana issues it doesnt buy mana regen items at all

CppLNov 28, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7anj848,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-11-28T12:31:29.180+0000)

After she buys tear.....

So she is buying tear

If a champion has no mana issues it doesnt buy mana regen items at all

Cause seraph's embraceis is core item on her.

PoskeNov 28, 20162 votes

She has so many core items

CppLNov 28, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7anj848,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-28T13:38:07.373+0000)

She has so many core items

Not really.Only item 3040 and item 3116

PoskeNov 28, 20162 votes

What about lyandri?

QuephaNov 28, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7anj848,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-28T16:01:53.524+0000)

What about lyandri?

very situational sixth item.

Blackstone01Nov 29, 20161 votes

I thought RoA was also core, or at least a very common pick.

TeCoolMageNov 28, 20163 votes

And it's core on her because she has mana issues?

I get that people think that Cassiopeia has low counter play but she does have mana issues as she's not going to kill on every E (ahem champions ahem)

101100111000Nov 28, 20167 votes

She doesn't have mana issues. She buys tear because she has a very easy time stacking it with her low cooldown e, and Seraph's grants a lot of AP. You don't only buy Tear because you have mana problems, you also buy it if you can stack it quickly and you like the shield + stat stick.

QuephaNov 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Cause seraph's embraceis is core item on her.

Not really, Tear is what's core on her because she doesn't have enough mana to do anything without it. Seraph's is just what you build out of it.

xBushxNov 28, 20167 votes

you beat cass by building mr RIGHT away...

She can't buy boots and loses 15 magic pen from normal mages. If you go MR first you can beat cass. Because she can't afford to get spell pen because it will delay her 2-3 item core far too much. Laugh all you want but I mained her top half of season 6.

Auz the RipperNov 28, 201610 votes

[{quoted}](name=x Bush x,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s7anj848,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2016-11-28T13:56:26.792+0000) I mained her top half of season 6.

You mained her top? You monster

TeCoolMageNov 28, 20163 votes

I mained Anivia top

RalanrNov 28, 20161 votes

Words cannot describe the hatred I feel right now.

TeCoolMageNov 28, 20161 votes

ooh reminds me of the time I played Soraka top and went 3/1/17. I wish I could do it more but everyone keeps threatening to int

RalanrNov 28, 20161 votes

Ok, now I want to kick a puppy.

Punts Teemo

Close enough.

dominusxNov 28, 20161 votes

Have fun tryna survive my stormraider darius and item 3009 rush. ehehehehehehehhehehe

TeCoolMageNov 29, 20161 votes

:) my wall's cooldown was buffed and it counts as a knock back/interrupt for dashes

5000000000000000Nov 29, 20161 votes

How does that counter Darius, though? He has no dash or channels. I mean, I can see how Anivia can be strong against Darius, but I just don't see how her wall buff makes her any stronger against Darius.

Troll for TrumpNov 29, 20161 votes

For Darius, you shouldn't actually be getting swifties. Merc's treads and Hexdrinker vs Cass, and you basically autowin the lane. Ghost is probably better than flash in the matchup, as you just press ghost and ignore all her cc (besides ult), and still take no dmg.

dominusxNov 29, 20161 votes

i got my own playstyle i rush Phage swifties for most range matchUps except Teemo and Cass as you mentioned. then go into a resitstance item and then cleaver it works for me .

TeCoolMageNov 29, 20161 votes

fek I read tryna as trynda

Also if I'm good enough I can W to literally push myself away from his pull

xBushxNov 28, 20161 votes

LUL

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2356925651/205736286?tab=overview

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2358576385/205736286?tab=overview

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2357376751/205736286?tab=overview

Last three Cass matches...not ranked but absolute monster....notice in all these games enemy team did not have MR.

The trick is to FORCE Cass to buy VOID staff EARLY. If you do this by rushing two MR items you make Cass useless until LATE game.

NineTailedMysticNov 29, 20161 votes

Lemme just rush two MR items as a Mage. Ok.

Pale PirateNov 28, 20161 votes

Wait a second. I thought magic penetration is best against low resistance opponents, so the intuitive thing to do would be NOT to buy resistances?

TeCoolMageNov 28, 20161 votes

wat

Pale PirateNov 29, 20161 votes

I'm saying that since flat magic penetration works best against targets without magic resistance, and since cass can't buy item 3020 , it would make sense NOT to buy magic penetration, as she can't take advantage of your low magic resistance.

5000000000000000Nov 29, 20161 votes

Flat pen is better against low resistance targets, and %pen is better against high resistance targets.

xxxMadLionxxxNov 28, 20161 votes

Rylies is getting nerfed

SkaiserusNov 28, 20169 votes

THANK THE RIOT GODS, THEY FINALLY FUCKING LISTENED OH WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

Sona PingNov 28, 20163 votes

They are changing it so that it will be good on champion with the ability to constantly reapply it.

101100111000Nov 28, 20164 votes

So Cassiopeia

QuephaNov 28, 20164 votes

{quoted}

So

The nerf hits Cass harder than almost any other champion that would use it since she was the champion who could most easily apply the strongest, longest-lasting slow of the old Rylai's and the strength of that slow is being cut in half.

101100111000Nov 28, 20161 votes

But you said it'd only be good on champions that can constantly reapply it. Cass does exactly that. Her poison itself will have the same slow as before, and the movement speed buff from landing her Q means that functionally nothing changes for Cass. She's still gonna build Rylai's.

Brand and Swain also fall under similar boats, since they're dots will still have the same slow.

This change (in terms of utility) only really affect mages that never applied dots to begin with, but built Rylai's for the strong 40% slow.

Edit: You didn't say that, previous poster did, rip my eyes.

QuephaNov 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

But you said it'd only be good on champions that can constantly reapply it. Cass does exactly that. Her poison itself will have the same slow as before, and the movement speed buff from landing her Q means that functionally nothing changes for Cass. She's still gonna build Rylai's.

Brand and Swain also fall under similar boats, since they're dots will still have the same slow.

This change (in terms of utility) only really affect mages that never applied dots to begin with, but built Rylai's for the strong 40% slow.

Edit: You didn't say that, previous poster did, rip my eyes.

It will only be good on champions that can constantly reapply it because a 20% slow is too weak to care about unless it has amazing uptime. It will still be good on Cassiopeia.

That does not mean it will not be much, much weaker compared to a 40% slow that stuck around even longer after you would get out of Cass's range.

101100111000Nov 28, 20161 votes

But I was never arguing that the item itself wasn't being nerfed overall, or that Cass was unaffected by the changes. I'm just arguing that some of the champions that people definitely have problems with regarding the application of Rylai's slow, like Cassiopeia, will still effectively be able to perform the same function as before. It doesn't stop Rylai's from being good in terms of utility.

Instead, I'd say the hard stat cuts are more likely to be the reason some mages stop building Rylai's, rather than the utility nerf to single-target damage.

5000000000000000Nov 29, 20161 votes

Current Rylai's apply 40% slow to single target abilities and 20% slow to AoE/DoT abilities. Cassiopeia abused Rylai's by being able to almost permanently apply 40% slow since her E is on a low CD. After nerf, it'll only apply 20% slow. That's a nerf to Cassiopeia.

The new Rylai's would still be good on Cassiopeia, but it'll be weaker for her than now.

Sona PingNov 28, 20161 votes

Incongruously considering the thread, yes. But Rumble and others as well.

SaiannaNov 28, 20161 votes

Kinda offtopic (dunno why i made it huh)

Malz gets all-shield as passive Fiddle get mini-ghost Azir gets a turret Kog has true damage aoe ultimate-tier bomb Darius gets better twitch passive (that scales with his AD~~ and deals magic dmg~~) . . . Cassiopeia gets a boot that needs at least 10 levels to be of any use. The only worse is Lisandra i think

I know we shouldn't compare apples to oranges, but.. Damn... Some passives are visibly so much stronger than others.

SkaiserusNov 28, 20161 votes

Wtf? Darius doesnt deal magic damage on his passive, wtf are you smking? And Cassiopeias passive is pretty strong. It gives another slot to put another strong AP item like Ludens or something. Lissandras give her a free spell to harass or something. Its really not bad.

SaiannaNov 28, 20161 votes

Wtf? Darius doesnt deal magic damage on his passive

It used to be magic damage to allow Darius to be bigger threat (can't itemize against him fully).

Checking...

Yep, it's physical damage, my bad

About cassio. before she received 25%~CDR and 30% AP after maxing her stacks. That passive was totally out of ass, but it got hugely downgraded to simple "Cass gets free boots worth of MS after Xth level". And her play pattern is exactly the same as before.

Spam E till your fingers bleed.

So.. As much as I hate Stashu-Cass and Repertoir-Cass, I have to admit, Stashu at least make her passive into monster-tier free rabaddon + 25% CDR, while Repertoir didn;t fix almost anything players disliked about Cass and gave her meh passive.

cyberchadeNov 28, 20161 votes

i play Cassiopeia before and after the rework~~(on a lossing streak with her atm)~~ the rework did change her play style her W is less free Q and more KEEP the enemy Riven standing here. she is less of a lane bully as she will eat mana if she bullys to hard. her rework was one of the smallest but it brought life to her again and made her ~~to me~~ less like Velkoz and . Also I bet she is les of a headache for riot to blance.

SaiannaNov 29, 20161 votes

Also I bet she is les of a headache for riot to blance.

Check her winrate in higher tiers.. Last time I checked (2 weeks ago~~) she was like 60% winrate.

Funny part is, old-old Cass was alot healthier to play against and with her winrate alot more balanced

cyberchadeNov 29, 20161 votes

ok didnt know about the win rates but i old cass could spam Q on a champoin and not loss mana now she does lose mana . As cass you bully to hard you run out of mana and have to back or try to cs with no mana, if a team fight goes to long early/mid you run of mana and lose the fight. You miss one to many minions before trying to trade and you lose out on a very free kill or worse die trying if cass becomes a major problem which after the syndra nerfs she will riot can drop her mana pool or up her mana costs and she should be good

cyberchadeNov 28, 20161 votes

Cassiopeia W can be dodge so can her ult it isnt until she getts rylis that she become Bs item 3116 just met the nerf hammer and lost item 3070