"I am not inclined to buy sightstone"
Yes you are.
-A Sona Main
Yes you are.
-A Sona Main
I'm not really inclined as much as I am forced.
But it's fine. Everything is fine.
You aren't forced or anything. It's not like you can be reported for not building it, right?
Is this sarcasm? Did you know that the highest mastery singed was almost banned for playing singed suport withouth sightstone and with smite?
And leaving bot lane to mess around in the jungle for several minutes at a time even when his entire team begged him "pls no" (cough)
As a support main, I also find it frustrating that I'm all but forced to first-buy sightstone when all I want to do is build tank and become an immovable rock, but let's not convolute the issue by bringing that guy into it. He did not play Support. He had no intention of playing Support.
I never build sightstone. I just go smite support and build tracker knife
[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rpZ1sfLo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-28T15:28:36.004+0000)
I never build sightstone. I just go smite support and build tracker knife
You are a genius! We will start a revolution, everyone should build tracker knife to force riot to make support better. Cause we all know when nonjunglers building jungle items, inherits change.
I don't know why supports have such a problem building sightstone
Because it's a +150 health item with no other stats behind it while the many many many other items usually have MR or Armor attached to them. Even Ruby Sightstone has health, but again, you've just put on health with nothing to back it up and five slots to try and stack defensive/utility items.
Then you're just underrating how good vision actually is.
I don't care if that ward will light up half a map, it doesn't take away from the fact that a Zed will shred right through me if that's the only thing I'm carrying (apart from runes/masteries). If it had even 10 armor/mr or 5 Armor and 5 mr, I wouldn't mind. To me, it's just makes my health bar a bit bigger which is no problem for any person who can do damage.
If you're dying to a Zed you're just positioning badly and getting caught out. If he's ganking you then you buy a sightstone to see where he is on the map so you can prevent it.
yeah but he can jump you and sometimes there's no escape route champs like him are hard to deal with, you can ward all you like but even so if he catches you your pretty much dead
You're hugely overestimating average Joe's ability to utilize vision
[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rpZ1sfLo,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-11-28T18:59:10.385+0000)
Because it's a +150 health item with no other stats behind it while the many many many other items usually have MR or Armor attached to them. Even Ruby Sightstone has health, but again, you've just put on health with nothing to back it up and five slots to try and stack defensive/utility items.
Ruby sightstone is a thing
Which is +500 Health, an extra ward and 20% Active Cooldown Reduction. While the CDR is nice, again you have one stat with no Armor or Magic Resist on it. Every other item that has health either has armor, mr, or a special passive that increases healing. Why not give Sightstone something similar and not just a blood pack?
If you're playing a utility mage, you're either going to be squishy and bursty or squishy and zero damage. I'm not saying I want to be like Dr. Mundo, but at the same time, I want to be able to stay in a fight long enough to help and not be instantly deleted by everyone.
I don't know why supports have such a problem building sightstone
Well I agree that it's necessary which is why I always build it, but I hate being forced to build sightstone because supports ALREADY don't get much gold. Now I have to spend a huge chunk of it to buy this sightstone even though warding is everyone's job. If everyone just placed down the wards that they're given and actually bought control wards then I feel like SS would be a lot less mandatory. On top of that a lot of people (myself included) just like to do damage, and rushing SS GREATLY lowers your potential damage output. It's such a coercive item because even though it LOOKS like it's a choice to buy it or not in the shop, if you don't, then you'll just get flamed into oblivion and miss out on vision because a lot of times on support, I'm the only one with wards down. That's the problem with SS. You don't really want it. You just buy it because you don't have a choice. Sure riot added combat stats to the AP version of it but 25 AP is negligible at best and wont make a meaningful impact in your combat usefulness. I completely understand that supports aren't meant to deal damage, but I think I can speak for every support main when I say that nothing sucks more than relying on your team to deal damage for you, because if someone gets caught or makes a stupid play, and you're put in a position where you have to fight, you're not gonna be able to do jack shit because Riven is too busy shoving her sword up your ass without a care in the world because YOU DO NO FUCKING DAMAGE.
Riot nerfed flat numbers on utility spells for all supports (because they were buying HP/DR items and relying on their bases), added AP scalings and promised us "AP support items". Then rito shafted us by 25AP on support items, thus basically nerfing supports AND their itemization in one fell swoop.
Extremely poor stats for the gold, I believe the lowest in game, that is mandatory for the class with the least amount of gold on average. Sure the wards are great and all, but as far as combat stats go, a lot of supports would prefer to invest in something useful. Unless Riot wants to buff its stats, the item needs to be removed to improve the support role. Removing it would also, likely, increase how many ppl play support because it would make full AP support builds better.
It's not an issue building it, it's an issue of when. If you rush it and you're losing lane, that gap is gonna widen a lot. You won't have the stats to help your ADC against your lane opponents. If you wait too late and get a lead because of it, then you're inviting others to come to your lane and you'll be killed through ganks. You want to find that sweetspot of "okay we aren't losing and we aren't winning."
And honestly, during laning phase you don't even need a sightstone. I'll get a lot of flak for saying that but why doesn't the mid laner build a sightstone, when he has eight openings to be ganked from? Bot lane has two. And if you aren't over extended, then you only have one. Realistically it's like the top laner building sightstone.
Obviously it's not because the support doesn't need stats when it comes to teamfights as much as the other laners do because they provide utility rather than damage, and the utility isn't greatly stat reliant. And ADCs really love to overextend. Not all of them, but if your support has a sightstone, you're almost ungankable. What lane wouldn't want to be ungankable? If I was an ADC main I would harass my support to get one too ASAP because it gives the most tangible and direct benefit to me.
I usually will build sightstone. But sometimes my ADC sees enemies in the river where I put my trinket ward (before buying it) yet won't listen to my pings or back off. In that case, why buy it? It's unusable in the laning phase and you can just buy it later. But that's also a slippery slope because later never comes.
I'm rambling now. But I hope that sorta makes sense that it's almost never an issue of if, but rather, when.
I don't know why supports have such a problem building sightstone
ITS A SLAVESTONE.
I personally report every support that doesnt get it. It may sound hard, but 95% it ruins the game because one person didnt want to spend 800 gold on an essential item.
me too. Report them and buy it, even if I am mid...sad life in the dark
Probably not, since a lot of people considers us gold and below players bad at the game, so that stat wouldn't matter.
After all, you can't get away with that strat in Masters+
You are not in master tier I am not in master tier Tactics and strategy in Master doesn't matter for us because its not like games in bronze/silver/gold.
When Katarina has 60% win rate in bronze, she has 40% in master. Reksai in masters could easily have 20% higher winrate than Reksai in gold. Stop being a sheep and copying people whose skill and knowledge is FAR beyond yours.
Well unlike you I have an interest in climbing, so I am going to use the guides of people who have made it to Masters+ as a guide. I am not a sheep because unlike people who copy build paths and strictly follow it every game, I take builds and then analyze them to see why they work, tweak them to my playstyle, and then implement them.
Don't think that people who want to learn from others are sheep, that is nonsense stemmed from a desire to do everything yourself.
Besides, there's a reason Master+ smurfs stomp. I want to at least carry. ;)
Go ahead and use Master's champion, build and strategy in bronze game. Then tell me results.
It is because it ruins the game for your tmwgole team most of the time. The player with the highest mastery with singed was almost permabanned because he would go singed suport withouth sightstone and smite. Riot told him to stop or to prepare for the permaban.
So you people don't want:
I personally report every support that doesnt get it. It may sound hard, but 95% it ruins the game because one person didnt want to spend 800 gold on an essential item.
Pretty much ensuring your reports carry no weight when you actually have trolls in your game. It'll have the same effect as someone saying they're gonna write "Reported" on a big piece of paper and put it on their wall. Report away lol
Does that mean I get to report every ADC that doesn't build EC against Sorakas? Because they're both 800G items lol. And I've hard a lot of ADCs that won't buy it
Yes, you can.
If that's true then I don't think there's gonna be any ADC or Support players left in the game.
Wait. People in this thread are really trying to justify not buying sightstone?
there is a reason why the level 0 of league of legends is diamond 2 and 80% of the playerbase is bronze and silver.
No i am not.
-A support Vel'koz Main
Yes you are
-literally anybody else on your team
Until they get their asses carried
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't support Vel'Koz literally just as useful as an underfed mid vel'koz? Like I get that you play around his utility and get team oriented items (Just kidding you obviously aren't getting team oriented items if you're not getting a SS) but why not just play him midlane if you want a carry?
Also you quote his 51% winrate as support but his winrate as a midlaner is 53% so doesn't that mean if anything not that Vel'koz is a good support, but just that vel'koz is slightly overpowered atm?
Support velkoz was actually used quite a lot; due to his high aoe damage , potential true damage , synergy with rylais and his ability to poke in different angles with q and w (also his e is a good cc for botlane ) after the rework the true damage aspect went really up further helping his support role. so he is useful as much as a mid velkoz,just not on the damage aspect but instead laning poke and aoe slow+true damage
What you say its true, however, the difference between mid and support VK is not damage, its their budget. Support VK sacrifices everything to get that damage, but he neglects CDR, REGEN and UTILITY from items. For example, support VK can never afford Zhonya's, he has to get damage to stay relevant because he has one less item slot.
Oh, and support Vel'koz is REALLY valueable if your mid picks melee champion, such as Katarina, Zed or Talon. It's because VK can bring very decent ranged waveclear, which is extremely valueable when under siege. This waveclear also helps in lane, where enemies just can't shove minions into your turret, and they can't push you as long as you have mana.
Sir you must be a bit confused. The role you are looking for is midlane.
Support Vel'koz 52% win rate in p+, but yeah, silvers on boards know better as they follow their glorious shepherds.
I'm not silver though? lol
If you are just going to build straight up full AP midlane style with no sightstone and try to hard carry, why not play velkoz mid though?
Except the build is vastly different from mid laner's and support VK works because instead of getting carry+ward bitch you're getting 2 carries out of botlane. What is even more important, you're not getting just any carry, you're getting carry that is diametrically different from standard ADC. Your standard ADC is mid-range single target DPS, VK is long-range AOE burst carry
By that logic every role should play a carry
i do 1 of 2 things when i supp a ap person.... get frost queens and ruby . or just the combo ap ss item. However i run scaling ap runes when i supp.... becuase this way it evens out the lost ability power by not getting frostqueens