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K so why do people complain about Lee but no Vi/Gragas/etc?

I GANK LANES··3 votes·634 views

As I'm sure you know Lee's got buffs on the PBE:

Flurry (Passive) now returns 20 energy in the first hit and 10 on the second from 15 on both.

Dragon's Rage (R) [new effect] Tooltip now includes "Every time the target collides with an enemy champion, the target also deals 15/18/21 % of their bonus health as physical damage."

I started playing League in S4 so never knew League when he was "op af and owned the jg for 3 seasons."

I know the armor on his w att spd slow on e etc, but now do people really think he's still strong? i mean honestly vi's kit is extremely easy to play, point and click knock up ult w/ high damage, % health, etc.

Vi, Gragas, Reksai, and others, just rambling, all have great early games, maybe not as good as lee but i honestly would say these 3 are on par, scale EXTREMELY well into late game, especially gragas and vi if you picked her into the right comp.

So do people just hate lee cuz bandwagoning? because he was super op in the past? his mobility? I play him a lot, he's the most fun champ to play imo, AND i've played against him a fair amount too, although not much because i'm low elo.

What do you guys think?

18 Comments

DanofDemacia2 votes

You right about the vi and lee are strong across all elos but reksai and gragas actually take skill so your gonna see less complaining

I GANK LANES1 votes

reksai takes more skill than lee? lol

Bears Dont Care2 votes

Vi is a jungler who goes all in. She is entirely dedicated to a gank if flash is on cooldown.

Lee sin is not. He can dash in, kick you back to a turret, then W to safety or q to safety if near a jungle camp.

Rek'Sai had her damage gutted horribl and is an all in knock up bot.

Gragas is not nearly as mobile and is layer pure tank. Of the four lee sin has the most mobility, and damage.

I GANK LANES1 votes

vi: have you heard of q ult? 1525 range.

Reksai building full tank still does respectable damage, has true damage, and global map presence, you didn't even make a comparison

Gragas: body slam's on a 12 sec cd, usually hitting 40 cdr thats what like 7? if it hits an enemy its reduced by like 3-4 seconds. not as mobile as lee but he gets around, also with damage reduction an aoe high base dmg ult, a knock up, a slow, and %max health damage.

No

Bears Dont Care2 votes

{quoted}

vi: have you heard of q ult? 1525 range.

iirelevant. This does not change the fact she is an all in champion. That is like saying xeraths q has high range and therefore, xeraths is mobile.

the two are unrelated.

Reksai building full tank still does respectable damage,

no... no she doesnt. Gragas deals more damage than her. Sejuani deals more damage than her.

has true damage,

That never gets used because it requires a full rage bar which is over 10 seconds in combat in theidle of an end team.

a>nd global map presence, you didn't even make a comparison

it isnt.global, the distance is relative.to tunnel placement, is announced, and is only to specific spots at her tunnel. global indeed.

Outside of her ult, reksai does not travel the map more quickly than lee. especially with her single gap closer. but hey let's ignore weaknesses.

Gragas: body slam's on a 12 sec cd, usually hitting 40 cdr thats what like 7? if it hits an enemy its reduced by like 3-4 seconds. not as mobile as lee but he gets around, also with damage reduction an aoe high base dmg ult, a knock up, a slow, and %max health damage.

Of the four Gragas is the only one that could possibly be compared bur hey, Lee sin has an aoe slow and knock up as well. unlike gragas, Lee sin has ways of gap closing that does not put him in danger. if gragas goes in, he stays in because his only form of disengage does not guarantee an escape at point blank range.

Lee sin? Get dragon kicked across the screen which you cannot flash out of.

No

Yes.

Lugg2 votes

People hate Lee because he is one of the safests champs in the game. I honestly can't see how any semi-competent Lee player dies more than once or twice a game due to his hopping to wards, minions, and players. Plus he has almost double the abilities of most champions on top of that. That's why people complain about him, he is still very strong but hasn't been picked a lot due to so many broken junglers this season.

As for Vi, Gragas, and Rek'sai, they need nerfing for sure. Vi's damage is too high for how tanky she is. She only needs 1 damage item and she is good. The latest Gragas nerf helped, but he is still very strong and needs a slight nerf somewhere. Rek'sai is the worst of the 3. Her early and mid game are WAY too strong. Her late game falls off some but she is still relevant due to being a meat shield, poke, CC, and tremor sense.

Aeolian Melodies2 votes

People stopped bitching about Lee months ago when he fell out of flavor because he isn't a tank jungler.

Apparently Riot decided that half a season without constant Elise vs Lee Sin was enough so they're bringing both of them back.

I GANK LANES1 votes

what i'm hopin is with the viability of tank junglers now and the buffs to lee and elise things will balance out, they all have their niche for different comps

Slamurai Jack2 votes

Because people like to whine about how safe he is without accounting for the fact that he's one of the most snowball reliant junglers in the game without the tools to reliably snowball in the early game. Compared to other strong early game junglers like Elise, Rek'sai, Nidalee, Shaco, and Pantheon, his kill pressure early game is lower than all of them and he's more reliant on snowballing than any of them as well (With Shaco being the possible exception). A Lee that doesn't snowball early game does pitiful damage mid game and is too squishy to teamfight. That's the risk in playing Lee Sin. Yes, Lee is really good at getting out of bad situations and not dying. But that's not good enough for Lee Sin. Lee needs to win.

I GANK LANES1 votes

totally agree, he's strong, but definitely not the best and i really believe these buffs won't make him over the top, just help his ridiculously bad late game. he's overhyped cuz of the past, i wasn't playing then though.

MohawkBird1 votes

[deleted]

I GANK LANES1 votes

{quoted}

Because Lee Sin's kit is overloaded as all fucks with little to no drawbacks. He's god ridiculous early game pressure and damage, ridiculous mobility (ward hops + gap closer on like a 7 second cooldown), and good CC. I personally think his kit is one of the strongest types of CC in the game because not only is it a knockup, it is a displacement as well. Nothing in his kit is really lacking. The main three things people want (damage, utility, mobility) he has.

Early game pressure and damage? Sure, so does a lot of other junglers. RIdiculous mobility? His W's on a 14 second cooldown, halved if it's used on an ally champion. Good CC? A slow and a knockback on his ult.

The 3 things you named the majority of all champs have this.

YCitizenSnipsY1 votes

You get upvotes for complaining about Lee Sin on the boards, and people on these boards seem to worship upvotes like currency. Honestly I cant remeber the last time I played a normal game that Lee Sin was apart of that people complained about him.

I GANK LANES1 votes

did you even read the TITLE of my post?

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

did you even read the TITLE of my post?

I just explained why. Lee sin has very few drawbacks to those mentioned above. He can always escape you. He can Hurst as hard as n assassin. he has plenty.of escape tools. he has sustain. Lee sin is never a bad choixe.

YCitizenSnipsY2 votes

Yes, you asked why people complain about lee but not others, and I told you. Complaining about Lee gets you upvotes on the boards, why do you think the threads complaining about him getting buffed are rated so high.

I GANK LANES1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, you asked why people complain about lee but not others, and I told you. Complaining about Lee gets you upvotes on the boards, why do you think the threads complaining about him getting buffed are rated so high.

i apologize, i read your post wrong

Marthian1 votes

Because I keep forgetting to post how overloaded Gragas is.

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