Dynamic Queue is killing SoloQ players

DefNotABot··147 votes·4,337 views

So I've seen a million boards talking about the problems with dynamic queue but I figured I'd chip in a few points that haven't seemed to be addressed. Firstly, dynamic queue does hurt soloq players immensely. The biggest issue with this is all about communication. Riot is claiming that dynamic queue makes the game healthier in the sense that you have to adapt and work together more in order to win and that's all fine and good but they're forgetting (or probably just ignoring) the fact that soloq players have a massive disadvantage: communication.

Do you guys remember when curse voice got banned from leagues because it had automated timers and for a brief period, it was almost expected that your teammates would have to join a call in order to communicate? Then riot made this post addressing why they banned curse voice:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4491087&page=1#post46870550

Their first statement was "League’s a competitive game, and it’s critical that players have a level playing field." However, this is certainly not the case because soloq players (and some premades) have a distinct disadvantage. Firstly, as a SoloQ player, you have no idea if you're even in a premade game, let alone who is premade (unless your opponents share club names). Because of this, you don't know which players to look out for. If you have a hard carry gameplay style, you're suddenly forced into playing safe or risk being decimated by coordinated ganks.

In the same post, Riot also said "It’s also important that the game experience you get when you download League of Legends is the complete experience - you shouldn’t have to go digging for other apps and addons just to stay competitive." However, if you don't have a third party voice chat software in a premade, you're going to have a tougher time than those that do. Voice chat software like skype or discord aren't exactly difficult to obtain, but not every premade wants to use them, and soloq players won't even be able to access a 3rd party voice conversation unless invited by the premade.

Riot doesn't seem to realize how distinct of an advantage having voice chat has in a team based game like League of Legends. Sure, pings and chat are in place, but voice chat provides a far greater advantage since you can plan faster and more intricately than using pings or chat. In a high stakes moment like an early game tower dive, a voice chat premade could say "Hey, I'm tanking tower. Save your stun until my snare expires. keep going I'm tanking. Enemy mid is heading down we have to back out now," In the same scenario with non voice chat players, people wouldn't know if they can turret dive, if their team is going to back them up or how long they'll back them up for, and they'll probably end up stacking cc immediately,

Even worse is the fact that if you're a soloq player on a premade team, odds are they won't even listen to your pings. Whenever I'm in a voice chat, I almost entirely ignore pings because I can rely on my teammates to call out when their laners are missing and the extra noise just drowns out the ping noises. Even if your teammates are paying attention to your ping, it's incredibly unlikely that your teammates are going to put any trust in your calls or aid you if you're being camped.

Then we come to the fact that dynamic queue is so easily abused for "legal" boosting. As long as you or your friends own the accounts you're on, it doesn't matter how many smurfs you recruit onto your team. Have fun dealing with not only diamonds in silver games, but diamonds that have teammates that will listen to their every command.

Like, I get why dynamic queue was implemented. I really do. And I get why Riot isn't holding our hand through the boards because they can't make empty promises and everything is tentative. It's hard to say whether the community is better off with or without dynamic queue since none of us have the statistics but there really needs to be help coming soon for soloq players.

77 Comments

Cryo0017 votes

Dynamic queue is annoying but I really don't care too much cause I only play normals. The problem for me arises when they allow 4 people to queue up. I mean come on, putting that one solo player with a group of people who will blame you for everything if things go south regardless of how badly they themselves are doing is just annoying. I'm pretty sure the feeling is way worse in ranked.

KarmasPolice1 votes

there is no solution for that but disallowing 4-man queues which they wont do.

Raid Boss Morde9 votes

I'm a solo queue player and always was, but saying that Dynamic Queue is hurting us is a little over dramatic.

Even with Dynamic queue, I still play alone, and guess what!? When I lose, I don't blame dynamic queue! GASP! I'm not losing or winning anymore than I did last season, so there isn't a problem with dynamic queue.

fellkefer10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raid Boss Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rfbRtz5g,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-04-16T15:22:31.088+0000)

I'm a solo queue player and always was, but saying that Dynamic Queue is hurting us is a little over dramatic.

Even with Dynamic queue, I still play alone, and guess what!? When I lose, I don't blame dynamic queue! GASP! I'm not losing or winning anymore than I did last season, so there isn't a problem with dynamic queue.

Yeah, good conclusion mate. You dont have a problem with it -> nothing wrong with it.

JlackBesus4 votes

typical rito fanboy

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

Guess you don't understand what I meant, huh? The post stated that Dynamic Queue is hurting solo queue players, but it's not hurting me. Therefore, his/her statement is wrong. They should be saying it's hurting some solo queue players!

Reading comprehension OP!

doiminat0r36001 votes

If water kills an entire colony of ants but one, is water bad?

Me: Yes

You: "But it didnt get that one ant!"

But it got the rest of them. One not being affected =/= it works properly/is good.

Sorry for the bad metaphor but it was made on the fly.

Spicy Rice1 votes

You obviously misunderstood raid boss morde. He was making the point that if 1 isn't affected, then the whole isn't truly affected.

doiminat0r36001 votes

Yes but if a majority is affected, then it can't not affect the others. That little ant would probably die of starvation now because he doesnt have a colony.

The single person not affected by Dynamic Que would probably have longer que times because people don't like Dynamic Que.

Invictus Unbent8 votes

Signed & Upvoted.

BRING BACK SOLO QUEUE RIOT

Dr Birdie9 votes

Your copy-paste in every post after only reading the title certainly shows your dedication for the cause that you believe in.

PiVoRx4 votes

And what do you expect? Cause is simple.

Invictus Unbent1 votes

I don't know why you would require me to analyze and elaborate each and every time why I believe in what I believe. I have done that plenty of times. People have done that plenty of times. The arguments are there, clear and concise, hitting Riot in the face yet they choose to ignore them. The only thing that I can do is be vocal about what I believe in and hope that in my own way, eventually I'll be enough of a pain and somehow motivate other people too in order to be heard. Sorry if you don't approve or appreciate that.

Dr Birdie2 votes

I don't care what you do. I'm just saying that if you go to every thread copy-pasting one thing, Riot isn't gonna look at that and say "This is a real problem that needs to be addressed." They're gonna look at it and think you're just shitposting.

doiminat0r36001 votes

Reported & Downvoted

DOWN WITH THE SPAM

Invictus Unbent1 votes

It's not spam. You can have you own opinion though.

doiminat0r36002 votes

Ive seen it on 5 other posts. And the "your copy-paste in every post" as well as "I have done that plenty of times" the says spam as well.

Invictus Unbent1 votes

You will see it in 5 more hopefully and it's still not spam.

doiminat0r36002 votes

How is this not spam? This is the definition of spam.

Spam: send the same message indiscriminately to (large numbers of recipients) on the Internet.

Its spam by that definition.

Invictus Unbent1 votes

Spam: irrelevant or unsolicited messages sent over the Internet, typically to large numbers of users, for the purposes of advertising, phishing, spreading malware, etc.

In contrast my messages are relevant, express the opinion of a vast percentage of users who play this game, and they're not for the purposes of advertising, phishing or spreading malware. Instead, the purpose is to keep the flame alive and to send out the message that we want solo queue back.

doiminat0r36001 votes

You think the fire is dead? This was announced less than a month ago. Considering all the posts ive seen about solo que in the past week (about 10 on front page of gameplay). The message serves nothing but an annoyance because its saying the same thing everyone else is saying but uselessly saying it on ever post, relevant to the actual content or not. It's the most redundant thing on posts that are saying to bring back solo que.

Invictus Unbent1 votes

You are confused, my friend. It's very simple. My posts are always relevant to the threads I'm posting them in. I won't go to a thread which is about nerfing Garen for example or for some kind of new artwork, and post something about solo queue there. That would be spam indeed. What I'm doing is to choose the threads which are already referring to the problem of dynQ vs soloQ. I express my opinion in such threads, and my opinion is relevant and not useless. The arguments have been made 10000 times. Repeating myself and analyzing why dynQ is faulty as a concept to begin with and that it cannot be fixed would indeed be redundant and painful. Instead I post something much smaller which serves to keep the flame alive as I've said. If you're too tired to read it such things then don't go reading into threads which are obviously about soloQ vs dynQ. It's fairly easy.

Fovere5 votes

Given the post length I was surprised to find a number of good points here.

Sad thing is that it doesn't cover a half of the issues with this dynamic queue system.

NeverClarkolas5 votes

Literally not a single prominent proplayer/youtuber has said they like dynamic que more than the old system. Pretty much only people who boost or always played teams before season 6 are in favour of it.

Keevalroy2 votes

Or are known Riot shills.

Critmaster Garen5 votes

the moment you get a 4 man premade and theyre literally feeding 30 kills before 15 minutes and then start trolling you. (no, i didnt even say a word). jesus, this que is toxic.

SirSmokeysAlot3 votes

Downvoted. Here is why. I'm having the most fun I've ever had playing ranked. I've been here since season 1. You're worried about a coordinated gank? Good solo players have always managed to coordinate with their team. Most people you just have to prove early in a game you're capable of making a good call and then they will listen to you. League is all about the law of averages. You win some and you some and unless you are a true god then you're win rate is gonna be around 50%. You can climb. You dson't need a group to do it. People will always find something to complain about. These complaints about premades and boosting have always been a fact of League. Smurfs have always been able to go to a bronze game and just own 1v5. You have to be able to work together with your team, be it a 4-1 scenario or 1-1-1-1-1, it doesn't matter. This is first and foremost a team game or else "1v1 me bro" wouldnt just be a scrub saying.

~ <3 a dissenting solo player voice

DefNotABot3 votes

I do smurf quite often and I'll admit I've abused the system in dynamic queue to help friends rank up. But I noticed a pretty drastic difference. In silver, I could easily maintain an 80% winrate in the old soloq and with dynamic queue, it's about the same. But the second I step into soloq in this system, my winrate plummets to about 60%. If a diamond player playing in silver has such a drastic disadvantage in terms of carrying in low elo, how do you expect the average soloq player to advance? Yes, law of averages exist but dynamic queue is taking the ability of soloq players to carry out of their hands, regardless of how good they are

SirSmokeysAlot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=a wiggly pug,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rfbRtz5g,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2016-04-16T23:12:13.571+0000)

I do smurf quite often and I'll admit I've abused the system in dynamic queue to help friends rank up. But I noticed a pretty drastic difference. In silver, I could easily maintain an 80% winrate in the old soloq and with dynamic queue, it's about the same. But the second I step into soloq in this system, my winrate plummets to about 60%. If a diamond player playing in silver has such a drastic disadvantage in terms of carrying in low elo, how do you expect the average soloq player to advance? Yes, law of averages exist but dynamic queue is taking the ability of soloq players to carry out of their hands, regardless of how good they are

Some games are unwinnable. It was like that in solo q too. Honestly, I think it has a lot to do with the changes of this season. The more snowball games. Shorter games. That has a lot to do with your difference in win % too I'm sure. I don't believe it's out of our hands as solo players. Definitely if you get a lead you have to press your lead to get other roles going strong as well. Split push for days is not the best option right now.

DefNotABot3 votes

It's certainly not out of the hands of soloq players but the system makes it that much harder to solo carry. Yes, it's a team game but this current system makes you rely on your teammates being useful more than the old system if you're a soloq player. In a soloq match, if I start pulling ahead, I'm almost guaranteed to be camped until I get shut down. I can't rely on the same level of help from my other laners if they're premade together since, understandably, they'd trust each other to carry over a stranger. I don't disagree with you; yes we soloq players CAN still carry. But the task is much harder in this system compared to the old one.

ff4sk3 votes

been here since season one yet your account says you've only played season s5 and this season you've done nothing but played with premades. You're literally the same as people who bullshit about being diamond smurf is champ select to get their desired role. Why do you feel the need to lie just to defend your broken system??

SirSmokeysAlot1 votes

[deleted]

ff4sk3 votes

why get so defensive if you're telling the truth?

and op.gg shows that you've been playing with a ton of premades. but yeah keep pretending like you're not defending this system because you enjoy boosting/getting boosted lol.

rtbf2256182413 votes

If Season 7 is going to be this bad then i've lost hope. Seriously. Right now, i'm just wishing they are simply experimenting with this Season.

SoMNia3 votes

League needs in-game voice chat. That's my only takeaway from this. Riot doesn't like Rockstar Carry Syndrome, and they seem to regret that SQ fostered selfish players. I don't blame them. It's a team game. They just need to do more to make teamwork possible if they're going to push that angle. They don't need to split the queues. They need to improve the experience of the one they've got. Communicating with your team is a skill, too, and it's one they need to give players the tools to exercise better.

Keevalroy2 votes

I'm hesitant to support voice chat. It does make communication easier, but I for one have had quite enough of squeaker shitbags never shutting up on Xbox live. You can mute them, but they're going to keep talking - and when communication is vital in League unlike FPS games, everything is going to be jumbled since just because you can't hear them doesn't mean everyone else can't. Even without that scenario, when someone is muted, people are going to talk over eachother and it will be chaos since they think they're the only one's talking.

Maybe you have a shot caller and someone who thinks they can shot call? They both disagree with each other and mutes happen. Now both of them are trying to give orders at the same time and the other 3 are confused. Those who yell the loudest are the ones that are heard the easiest, and I feel it's more obvious what the right choice is through text and pings in game without people trying to shout over each other in voice coms.

SoMNia1 votes

That's fair. I share that concern. Most systems can be abused, of course. I would like a "smartcast" option for pings.

Wait, does that already exist? >.>

Edit: Okay, so dragging the control-clicks opens the radial menu? That would have been good to know two years ago. XD

Gimpy893 votes

*dynamic boost

Spoofghoul3 votes

Dynamiq as it is right now is just a failure because

Dynamic queue relies 100% on solo players to function.

That 4 man needs a solo player to fill.

These 2 duo's need a solo player to fill.

And that 3 man needs 2 solo players to fill at least half the time.

Meanwhile playing solo gives you a disadvantage and riot even made sure playing with a premade gets more rewards, on top of often being flamed at by premades or just being flat out ignored.

Its not fun for solo players it gives em a disadvantage on top of it, if soloq ever comes back thats where 99% of the solo players will go.

And because of that queue times increase to days if not weeks.

And the irony of it all is dynamic queue doesnt need a single premade to function, whilst promoting playing with a group it is 100% reliant on solo players,

VietEggrolls2 votes

the queue time in plat iii so long its fcking cancer 13 mins and 11 mins constantly

warmcorntortilla2 votes

Calm, coherent, well-said. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Weasel Kensei2 votes

Allow me to play the detractor...

"You're in the division you belong in scrub, git gud!"

Most people wont read the OPs post, and will continue to be obstinate asshats touting that dynamic que has zero impact on solo players, or anyone for that matter.

Riot is just serving the corporate overlords who want more profit at this point. Screw balance and fairness, how can we wring more money out of this games players.

lolptwo2 votes

Riot needed to AT LEAST release Tribunal before implementing something that groups people together on top 3 most toxic communities on the planet.

Wahre Gesicht2 votes

Riot contradicts himself at every moment.

Burnt Light2 votes

It doesn't matter how many good points you make unfortunately. Riot has to learn the hard way.

Earth2Fire2 votes

EVERYONE MAKE THEIR OWN THREAD ABOUT STRIKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOYCOTT RANKED AND CASH PURCHASES!

Baby Ghoul2 votes

I actually didn't fully realize the implications of this until I looked at my friend's list the other day.

I started playing League a little over a year ago, and I've added so many people to my friends list over the course of my time. One of them I added from last year was this guy who was in low Silver last season, and he was a good player.

The other day I see his status is talking about his new placement. So I hover over his name, and it says he's in Platinum 4 currently. A lot of my friends who have played this for years are Platinum and still climbing back up, so I was shocked. It's a huge leap to go from and established Silver 5-4 to Platinum 4.

Then I remembered dynamic queue was a thing this season (I don't know why I forgot I'm a support main and dynamic queue messes us up the most). I look at his matches and see he frequently plays with a 3 season 5 Platinum players, and a Master player. Duo ranked is so unreliable because you still had to have 3 other people on your team that you did not know. You don't have the upper hand in that situation per se, but you still get to play with a friend. Now you don't have that problem.

I find it funny that Riot takes such a sanctimonious stand on ELO boosting, and claim they can't give people credible evidence to support their accusations, and yet here people are being ELO boosted right before our eyes, completely throwing off the competitive nature of ranked.

If that's not the perfect example of hypocrisy, I don't know what is.

SirSmokeysAlot1 votes

You see, when you play well you get invited to play another game. I have two brothers I queue with sometimes. That's the extent of 3s. I just told you facts. 90% of my 350+ games have been by myself. You attacked me first by calling me a liar. You're just wrong.

PS you're just jealous of my judgement kayle.

Thrëat1 votes

Bump for awareness.

Fovere1 votes

That is exactly what people should do, dominator.

This is a really, really big deal. It's turning the game upside down on its head. Riot should minimally understand the consequences of this move and what it will mean for their game trying to go forward like this.

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