Can we give Gangplank the Annie treatment?

420Templar·Apr 29, 2015·43 votes·3,595 views

At least make his q fully refund mana. Or if you wanna go all out, make it fully refund mana and halve the cooldown. I like money.

47 Comments

yukonlApr 30, 201517 votes

If you're looking for Gangplank buffs, overloading his Q isn't the solution.

I'd rather go for QOL buffs like no cast times on "e" or his "w". Or even his ult for that matter.

HandheldBrandonApr 30, 20155 votes

How is having the Q fully refund mana "overloading" anything.

Also the cast time removed on E and W needs to be removed regardless of any other changes. I always thought it was retarded that Annie can have full mana refund but GP can't.

yukonlApr 30, 20154 votes

Because a champion with a healing ability that costs mana shouldn't have the innate ability to restore mana.

Remlap1223Apr 30, 20151 votes

His Q is his only spell that does damage. It's meant to be a gold stacking mechanic. Hell, this might make him more tolerable in lane because he won't always be using it on you.

Nasus has a Q stack mechanic, but the ability costs next to no mana. Veigar has a Q stack mechanic, but also has a mana regeneration passive. Gangplank has none of these things, so he's forced to use it solely on champions for ranged harass, which makes him have an incredibly toxic pattern of feast and famine. If he can get mana refunded on kills, he's going to not only be more viable, but his playstyle Won't just be "q till they qq and wait for the crit."

DedriusApr 30, 20151 votes

This would break gangplank tbh, He could either sit in lane and farm for 20 mins and become a monster or he would poke you constantly and just q minions when he gets low on mana.

He is already strong lategame is earlygame is suppose to be his weakness. He could use some QOL buffs on other parts of his kit but his Q should remain the same.

Remlap1223Apr 30, 20151 votes

poke you constantly
Q minions

Pick one. He doesn't get to do both. Unless I've gone full retard and he has a secret fifth spell that does damage for free that I have missed in the hundreds of games I've played as Gangplank, he doesn't get free harass. The whole point of him getting the mana refund on his Q is so he can gold stack and be able to freeze the lane instead of wasting all of his Q's on his lane opponent. If he's refunding mana, he's NOT using his Q on you. If he's using his Q on you, he's NOT refunding his mana. Why should a stacking ability be both 1, expensive to use and 2 not give a mana refund on a sucessful use? If it's honestly that big of a deal, up the mana costs on his oranges to compensate. That way he can't just sit in lane forever. If his health goes, his mana goes, and if his mana goes, he can't heal. If GP is constantly stuck at 50 mana due to the refund mana mechanic, and his oranges cost 75 mana, he's still not going to be able to heal. If he waits and uses his heal, he loses all of his ranged harass.

DedriusApr 30, 20151 votes

If I were playing gangplank with this new buff then I would use a majority of my mana poking down my enemy laner then just farm for a bit with Q when my mana gets low and wait for it to regen. There should be a trade-off for him poking down his enemy laner like Pantheon has for poking his enemy with Q, especially since it grants gold.

This would be like saying Viegar should get mana refunded if he kills a minion with Q.

And by the way you have played a total of 33 games on Gangplank over the last 2 seasons so I guess I missed the hundreds of games.

Remlap1223May 1, 20151 votes

If I were playing gangplank with this new buff then I would use a majority of my mana poking down my enemy laner then just farm for a bit with Q when my mana gets low and wait for it to regen. There should be a trade-off for him poking down his enemy laner like Pantheon has for poking his enemy with Q, especially since it grants gold.

Do you not get it? All Gangplank has is his Q. If he shoots a minon, you have a 5 second window to just completely wreck his shit. Also, if his mana is low, he's not going to be able to liberally use his Q. If he's at a low enough mana cost where one bad Q can flatline him, that's when you start pushing him out of lane. If he's low enough where all he has is his Q, he has no heal and no disengage. And Pantheon is a bad example because he doesn't use his Q to farm and it doesn't grant him a stacking benefit, he solely uses it as poke or to charge his passive to dive under towers. And there is an appropriate tradeoff for that. Pantheon has his passive on his E to successfully last hit minions, he doesn't need his Q.

This would be like saying Viegar should get mana refunded if he kills a minion with Q.

Ok, two things. One, Veigar is a mid lane burst AP caster. He's not a high sustain bruiser like Gangplank. Veigar is matched against other bursty mages and assassins, not tanky top laners like Nasus, Renekton, and Shyvana, so having him get back mana would be irrelevant at best against opponents that can 100-0 him in one combo. And two, Veigar already has a missing % mana regen increase for a passive, so he doesn't need it. His kit is balanced around that because all of his spells have huge mana costs to them, because if Veigar successfully lands his EWQR combo, he'll take out anything short of a hypertank. So having access to enough mana to consistently regenerate his Q to keep it stacking once he's low on mana was something Riot took into consideration.

And by the way you have played a total of 33 games on Gangplank over the last 2 seasons so I guess I missed the hundreds of games.

Yeah I know, intelligent thought must be very difficult for you, as evidenced by your lackluster arguments, completely failing to recognize the difference between a burst mage with 100% AP ratios on two abilities to a high sustain bruiser with only one non-ultimate damaging ability, and failure to take into consideration normal games. But hey, it's not like you chose to be retarded, you were just born that way.

DedriusMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Do you not get it? All Gangplank has is his Q. If he shoots a minon, you have a 5 second window to just completely wreck his shit. Also, if his mana is low, he's not going to be able to liberally use his Q. If he's at a low enough mana cost where one bad Q can flatline him, that's when you start pushing him out of lane. If he's low enough where all he has is his Q, he has no heal and no disengage.

All Gangplank has is his Q To deal damage with abilities (pre-6) He has a whole kit that he can use which you seem to discount completely. Sure you can engage and try to trade with him, but he will just sustain it all back and you will still take damage. Also, if he is at low mana, it really isn't hard to sit back and farm safely with a ranged ability that grants bonus gold until his mana has regenerated.

Ok, two things. One, Veigar is a mid lane burst AP caster. He's not a high sustain bruiser like Gangplank. Veigar is matched against other bursty mages and assassins, not tanky top laners like Nasus, Renekton, and Shyvana, so having him get back mana would be irrelevant at best against opponents that can 100-0 him in one combo. And two, Veigar already has a missing % mana regen increase for a passive, so he doesn't need it.

If you are building Gangplank anything other than Critplank you are wasting your time. He is meant to deal massive burst with his Q Critting Not sustained damage. And why does Annie get mana back by killing a unit with Q make since she is also in the mid lane up against burst mages? It should be irrelevant like you said.

Yeah I know, intelligent thought must be very difficult for you, as evidenced by your lackluster arguments, completely failing to recognize the difference between a burst mage with 100% AP ratios on two abilities to a high sustain bruiser with only one non-ultimate damaging ability, and failure to take into consideration normal games. But hey, it's not like you chose to be retarded, you were just born that way.

Yeah as much as I would love to take into account your massive knowledge of gangplank from your normal games with Sub-Bronze level players (just a guess based on your rank in ranked play) but judging from your builds I would like to regretfully decline. I would building gangplank as critplank rather than whatever strange tank build you currently use, you will have much more success. It is strange that a person you called retarded can reach Platinum and have much more knowledge on a champ I never play while than yourself who can't even get out of bronze and doesn't know how to build one of your main champs, a little odd don't you think?

Remlap1223May 1, 20151 votes

All Gangplank has is his Q To deal damage with abilities (pre-6) He has a whole kit that he can use which you seem to discount completely. Sure you can engage and try to trade with him, but he will just sustain it all back and you will still take damage. Also, if he is at low mana, it really isn't hard to sit back and farm safely with a ranged ability that grants bonus gold until his mana has regenerated.

You know, I knew you have no idea what you're talking about, but this pretty much confirms it. You are seriously overestimating the power of GP's heal. First things first, the cooldown on it is HUGE. Like Rek'Sai tunnel huge. Actually longer. Second, unless you're building AP on him or leveling the skill first (which unless you're running APlank or TankPlank isn't going to happen unless you're rocking triforce) his heal is weak sauce. The heal is not what makes Gangplank's oranges glorious, it's the cleanse. It's the fact that I can play Gangplank support and just completely invalidate Thresh's, Leona's, and Morgana's presence bot lane with one ability. And thirdly, if you're just using GP's W as a quick heal every 20 seconds, YOU ARE PLAYING GANGPLANK WRONG. And if it wasn't obvious that you have no experience with Gangplank with your shit arguments and complete lack of knowledge of strategic play with Poppa Plank, the fact that you have ZERO recorded ranked games is the empirical evidence.

If you are building Gangplank anything other than Critplank you are wasting your time. He is meant to deal massive burst with his Q Critting Not sustained damage. And why does Annie get mana back by killing a unit with Q make since she is also in the mid lane up against burst mages? It should be irrelevant like you said.

I've already briefly covered how little you know about this subject, and I'll use this as an opportunity to once again completely discredit everything you say. By all means, run crit quints, crit damage marks, and Q your opponents til they QQ. However, you don't get to complain when your team flames you when you feed Nasus because he had the common sense to build cloth armor and 5 health pots, and you were a moron and he kept Withering you when your oranges were on cooldown. Don't get me wrong, CritPlank is fun, but if you really think that it's not just the most viable build option on him, but the only one, you have no idea what your'e talking about. Not only can you build him CritPlank, you can also build him SupPlank, APlank, and TankPlank. I haven't personally tried APlank, simply because it's a troll build in my opinion, but I've seen it work in extremely niche cases. SupPlank is actually where he's most viable due to carries not building armor, and the early damage making good ranged harass, plus the relic shield synergy with Gangplank's Q. If they have a squishy support, that's one more target for Planky's pistol. If it's a kill lane tank support who's name isn't Blitzcrank, you just tank the CC that was meant for your carry and eat oranges and be K, and watch as you completely invalidate their lane presence with one ability. Of course your carry can't be stupid, but that's not what's being called into question here. TankPlank is actually the most viable top lane option, and is actually really good jungling as well. Cinderhulk and Skirmisher's Sabre made TankPlank do stupid amounts of damage due to all 3 sources of damage being utilized: physical damage from his AAs and Parrrley, magic damage from Grog-Soaked Blade, Immolate, and Cannon Barrage, and true damage from Challenging Smite. When rolling RiverPlank, you take Stalker's Blade instead of Skirmisher's for better ganks.

And to once again show you have no idea what you're talking about, Annie's Q getting mana back isn't for sustain, it's for farming and charging up her passive. You seem to be under this impression that simply landing the Q equals free mana. That's not the case. If you spam Q and just use it to farm, you're wasting a stun. Again, that's why Annie isn't played top, and why "support" Annie is a thing. All Nasus has to do on Annie is W, E, and Q her til she dies. In a top lane scenario, sustain wins, burst loses. That's why Quinn top is a thing. Turns out that having sustained ranged damage on top of creep denying through blinds tends to invalidate bruisers.

Yeah as much as I would love to take into account your massive knowledge of gangplank from your normal games with Sub-Bronze level players (just a guess based on your rank in ranked play) but judging from your builds I would like to regretfully decline. I would building gangplank as critplank rather than whatever strange tank build you currently use, you will have much more success. It is strange that a person you called retarded can reach Platinum and have much more knowledge on a champ I never play while than yourself who can't even get out of bronze and doesn't know how to build one of your main champs, a little odd don't you think?

Man oh man, if I had 1 RP every time I heard that one, I'd be able to rebuy DJ Sona at full price. Let's get one thing straight champ, the only reason why I'm still in bronze is because my sanity and the $500+ I've spent on this account is worth more to me than bragging rights, a mediocre exclusive skin, and the support of the boards hivemind of "because I am Silver/Gold/Platinum I can talk down to any Bronze player regardless of how sound their arguments are". If I really wanted to put myself though the toxic nonsense of Yolo Queue, I probably could grind my way up to at least mid Silver if I wanted to, possibly even high Silver or low Gold. It's just not worth me getting frustrated at Bronze plays, flaming my team, and getting my account permabanned for it. Maybe someday I'll be bothered to make a "smurf" account so I can have an account that adequately reflects my skill level so I can face some really good players, but I doubt it. I'm not dealing with the nonsense of ranked play anymore, because a border isn't worth me being dropped into that acid pit of toxicity known as ranked, and have that rub off on me to my other teammates.

Word of advice to you, I don't care that you're platinum, you don't fucking know everything. Yeah, you probably could beat me in game, and yeah, you probably are more mechanically and strategically skilled at this game than I am. However, don't assume that platinum border makes you above me in every way shape and form. Hell, even if you were theoretically better at me in every aspect of life, there's one thing I know for a fact I'm more knowledgeable on, and that's Gangplank. When you go 30/2 in the second game you play as Gangplank, you can talk to me then. When you go 8/1/16 as Gangplank support with a fully stacked SotO while feeding your carry 7 kills against their counterpick, then you can talk to me. I may not be going to the LCS anytime soon, but I know my shit on the Plankster. Pic related.

DedriusMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You know, I knew you have no idea what you're talking about, but this pretty much confirms it. You are seriously overestimating the power of GP's heal. First things first, the cooldown on it is HUGE. Like Rek'Sai tunnel huge. Actually longer. Second, unless you're building AP on him or leveling the skill first (which unless you're running APlank or TankPlank isn't going to happen unless you're rocking triforce) his heal is weak sauce. The heal is not what makes Gangplank's oranges glorious, it's the cleanse. It's the fact that I can play Gangplank support and just completely invalidate Thresh's, Leona's, and Morgana's presence bot lane with one ability. And thirdly, if you're just using GP's W as a quick heal every 20 seconds, YOU ARE PLAYING GANGPLANK WRONG. And if it wasn't obvious that you have no experience with Gangplank with your shit arguments and complete lack of knowledge of strategic play with Poppa Plank, the fact that you have ZERO recorded ranked games is the empirical evidence.

You are correct in saying I have no gangplank experience, so lets look at some high elo gangplank players shall we? You actually should always max heal first, after putting a point your Q and E you should be maxing heal so you can stay in lane much longer than most other tops, which is what every high elo player does. So clearly you are either being stubborn and trying to be always right or have never watched any high elo gangplank players play.

I've already briefly covered how little you know about this subject, and I'll use this as an opportunity to once again completely discredit everything you say. By all means, run crit quints, crit damage marks, and Q your opponents til they QQ. However, you don't get to complain when your team flames you when you feed Nasus because he had the common sense to build cloth armor and 5 health pots, and you were a moron and he kept Withering you when your oranges were on cooldown. Don't get me wrong, CritPlank is fun, but if you really think that it's not just the most viable build option on him, but the only one, you have no idea what your'e talking about.

Again, let us look at some high elo builds. 90% of the builds I have seen from high elo players (the 15 or so I have looked at) build a Tri force and Shiv on him. About 60% of the time they also build IE. Also if you feed nasus as gangplank you are doing something very wrong. Why would my heal be on cooldown since I will not need to heal myself due to being able to poke him from range? I never said Critplank was the only build, I said you are wasting your time building anything else because it is the build that will grant the best results.

And to once again show you have no idea what you're talking about, Annie's Q getting mana back isn't for sustain, it's for farming and charging up her passive. You seem to be under this impression that simply landing the Q equals free mana. That's not the case. If you spam Q and just use it to farm, you're wasting a stun.

It is for sustain? Any type of Mana regen is for sustain, yes her Q is for charging her passive as well but it is used for farming only because she gets mana back for using it. However this conversation is not about annie who I have my own opinion on so I will move back to the topic at hand.

Man oh man, if I had 1 RP every time I heard that one, I'd be able to rebuy DJ Sona at full price. Let's get one thing straight champ, the only reason why I'm still in bronze is because my sanity and the $500+ I've spent on this account is worth more to me than bragging rights, a mediocre exclusive skin, and the support of the boards hivemind of "because I am Silver/Gold/Platinum I can talk down to any Bronze player regardless of how sound their arguments are". If I really wanted to put myself though the toxic nonsense of Yolo Queue, I probably could grind my way up to at least mid Silver if I wanted to, possibly even high Silver or low Gold. It's just not worth me getting frustrated at Bronze plays, flaming my team, and getting my account permabanned for it. Maybe someday I'll be bothered to make a "smurf" account so I can have an account that adequately reflects my skill level so I can face some really good players, but I doubt it. I'm not dealing with the nonsense of ranked play anymore, because a border isn't worth me being dropped into that acid pit of toxicity known as ranked, and have that rub off on me to my other teammates.

I remember you saying that I "was born retarded" so I'm not sure how that is me talking down to you when I am just stating facts about our ranks. Everyone has a reason why they are the elo they are but it is because you are not good enough to carry out of your current rank. Judging by your toxicity in this conversation I can understand that you would hesitate playing ranked more because you would definitely be that toxic player no one wants on their team, although I do feel bad for your normal teammates.

Word of advice to you, I don't care that you're platinum, you don't fucking know everything. Yeah, you probably could beat me in game, and yeah, you probably are more mechanically and strategically skilled at this game than I am. However, don't assume that platinum border makes you above me in every way shape and form. Hell, even if you were theoretically better at me in every aspect of life, there's one thing I know for a fact I'm more knowledgeable on, and that's Gangplank. When you go 30/2 in the second game you play as Gangplank, you can talk to me then. When you go 8/1/16 as Gangplank support with a fully stacked SotO while feeding your carry 7 kills against their counterpick, then you can talk to me. I may not be going to the LCS anytime soon, but I know my shit on the Plankster. Pic related.

It is very hard to judge a players skill in a picture of their normal game. I have gone legendary playing things like AD Katarina top and Ashe mid in a normal game so it is hard to show a true players skill. However, to me that sounds like a challenge, I will buy gangplank and use my build/strategy and see how it goes. I don't believe that you went 30/2 because I feel as though the other team would forfeit before that could happen but nonetheless I will try to beat that before they surrender.

Remlap1223May 1, 20151 votes

Alright, last reply I'm doing to you, anymore things you type are going to be a waste of time on your part not mine, because I"m quite frankly done with your self-righteous attitude.

You are correct in saying I have no gangplank experience, so lets look at some high elo gangplank players shall we? You actually should always max heal first, after putting a point your Q and E you should be maxing heal so you can stay in lane much longer than most other tops, which is what every high elo player does. So clearly you are either being stubborn and trying to be always right or have never watched any high elo gangplank players play.

I'm actually not going to even argue this point because it's true that Gangplank is built crit in high elo when he's played. However, you fail to realize that Gangplank is considered to be a shit tier champion pretty much universally, and while I disagree with that, he's not good enough for me to single handedly carry games. Which if he was, would be a sign that he's heavily unbalanced. Regardless, your point is moot because you are making a false causation of "high elo" = "best". I've seen Ryze top before it became meta hundreds of times, and they completely wrecked their lane. I've personally played Nautilus support before it became meta, and I am playing Gangplank support because I understand a unique mechanic in the game to had counter an extremely meta locked playstyle that's very effective. This is honestly the worst thing about ranked play. People worship the LCS and Challenger players. People such as yourself. It especially pisses me off when I played shit like support Nautilus before it was cool, and got flamed for it worse than I do now. When I played Naut support before it became meta, people on my team flamed me for being a troll. Now if I were to do this, I'll get flamed on the enemy team for "abusing freelo." Welcome to League of Legends. Unless you're a streamer or above Silver, you'll never be taken seriously, despite having knowledge about the game.

I never said Critplank was the only build, I said you are wasting your time building anything else because it is the build that will grant the best results.

If this is what accounts for platinum players, then the ranked system is broken beyond repair. Luckily one of my IRL friends is platinum (formerly Diamond V) and another was Gold I last season, so I know the system isn't broken, it's just a fluke that you're up this high. I've already made my argument for TankPlank and SupPlank, and already made my argument as to why you're in this "High rank opinions are the only ones that matter" mindset, so there's really no point in beating a dead horse. Thank your teammates every game for carrying you this far, because there's no way with your lack of knowledge of builds fitting the situation could you have possibly been carried as far as Platinum IV based on your own merit.

I remember you saying that I "was born retarded" so I'm not sure how that is me talking down to you when I am just stating facts about our ranks. Everyone has a reason why they are the elo they are but it is because you are not good enough to carry out of your current rank. Judging by your toxicity in this conversation I can understand that you would hesitate playing ranked more because you would definitely be that toxic player no one wants on their team, although I do feel bad for your normal teammates.

If I'm flaming you, it's because you're being an asshole. You know, kind of like you are now. It's a damn shame that there's no perma mute button on the boards, because quite frankly I'd be a more sane individual if I didn't have to hear morons like yourself here on a daily basis. In normals I'm a lot more nice because I don't have to talk to shitheads like yourself, who seem to be unable to do anything besides stroking off their own rank and believing they are the gift that graces LoL. Also because I'm not in the competative mindset, I'm willing to go more fun things like Lightning Shen and AP Sona mid.

Hell, the fact that you're calling me stupid for playing TankPlank, one of his viable builds, arguably his MOST viable build ATM, I shudder to think of the nasty shit you've said to that one player that went support Veigar before it became meta. Or support Annie. Or Ryze top. Yeah thinking about you flaming them makes me sad so I'll stop. Oh wait, that entire paragraph was a AD hominem straw man argument. You know, kind of like the things you've said in this entire argument.

It is very hard to judge a players skill in a picture of their normal game. I have gone legendary playing things like AD Katarina top and Ashe mid in a normal game so it is hard to show a true players skill. However, to me that sounds like a challenge, I will buy gangplank and use my build/strategy and see how it goes. I don't believe that you went 30/2 because I feel as though the other team would forfeit before that could happen but nonetheless I will try to beat that before they surrender.

Ok, now you went full retard, I mean, fuller than normal. So when UberDanger went full AD Soraka pre-rework, flashed towards the enemy base instead of further into the jungle, had their jungler and ADC waste their flashes trying to chase him in the wrong direction, and recalled back to base while they were so confused to what happened that they typed "wut" in all chat, THAT BY YOUR DEFINITION ISN'T A JUDGE OF A PLAYER'S SKILL? The dude makes YouTube money streaming off of fan games, but he's Diamond V player. What about Keyori? Yeah he's just gold, but he flat out himself said the reason he's only gold is because he doesn't like to play ranked (I'm getting a feeling of Deja Vu right now...). Judging by your mindset, he just needs to "get gud scrub" but the fact that he vaulted on top of a Cho'Gath to get an assist by nearly escaping death by rupture, well, I think I can rest my case.

Teal Deer; people who play League of Legends are good in their own ways. I consider myself to be a pretty damn skilled Gangplank player, but because of that I don't go around lording over Bronze V players and try to say "BURR HURR HURR YOU'RE PLAYING MASTER YI WRONG, GET GUD SCRUB" (mostly because I'm absolute shit with Master Yi, Cowsep would facepalm so hard if he saw me play him). So I'd encourage you to stop being a judgemental asshole. Ah who am I kidding, I'm always wrong because I'm Bronze, I might as well have wrote in Mandarin for all you care. Well I guess two people are wasting their times now.

DedriusMay 1, 20151 votes

I see you are taking this conversation the complete opposite direction than the way I wanted it to go. I by no means meant to be an asshole, but when someone starts off a reply by saying "you must be born retarded" there is no other way for the conversation to go I suppose. Clearly when you looked me up you see that I am a Katarina main, which is how I carried myself to Plat (I was Plat last season as well which you can see) so saying I was carried is just silly when I have a 56% winrate with Kat and a 3.xx KDA, clearly I had to have done something right.

I actually enjoy non meta picks, I mained Irelia last season when she was considered trash tier so I understand where you are coming from when you didn't like being flamed for things like Naut support. I like when people play non-meta picks in my games (as long as they know how to play that pick) because it makes the game exciting and gives me a different way to look at a champ that I may no have seen before. I actually don't even watch LCS, I watch select streamers that are fun to watch and that tend to play champs I like so I can learn a little bit as well such as Irelia Carries U, so saying I worship LCS is just silly.

And for your last point, I never said people who play normals are bad, you took that completely incorrectly. I just said it is hard to judge a player's skill based on normal games, which it is because people are playing for fun (like you said you do). I played gangplank once today in a normal game and went something like 22-7-10 (not sure what it was exactly) but I know if I would have played him in a ranked game it would not have (most likely) gone nearly as well.

You just seem like a toxic individual (you even said you don't play ranked because you would flame the bronze level players and most likely get banned) and I was just trying to post about a possible change to gangplank, not to have an argument with a random person over the internet about something that doesn't effect me either way since I don't find gangplank very fun to play. When you said you had several hundred games I more took that as "hey cool this guy has played a lot of GP, maybe I can learn something about how he is played" and the only reason I brought it up is because you came off as an asshole in your first response to me. I could honestly care less what you think about my personality, I have never been banned/chat restricted so that can pretty much speak toward my level of toxicity in the game. Play gangplank whatever way you see as the most entertaining, don't worry about whatever some random person says about it.

Angry MonsterApr 30, 20151 votes

Nasus is completely melee and has to stack the ability for it do meaningful damage.

GP can cs from range and earn extra gold with the ability that can crit. Plus it already refunds half the mana on kill.

I think i see a shity comparison.

Remlap1223Apr 30, 20151 votes

That is also GP's only non-ultimate damaging ability. GP has no inherent waveclear outside of his ultimate. You can build Cinder and Hydra or Shiv on him to give him waveclear, but he can easily be pushed into his tower without it. Nasus has waveclear through is E that also grants armor removal. Veigar can hit two minions with his Q and has his W for waveclear.

Also, Nasus' Q has a base scaling on it, it's actually roughly comparable to GP's Q base scaling. Oh, it also doesn't have an obnoxious cast time attached to it, so you can auto cancel it for burst damage early game. It also has 100% AD scaling on it. It can also crit. 193 damage at level 9 with ZERO stacks and ZERO items is not meaningless damage either. It's also less than half GP's mana cost on his Q at level 1, and less than a third at level 5, and the same cooldown at level 4, at a 1 second lower cooldown on it at level 5, while staying at . At level 9, Nasus will have already regenerated half of the mana cost of Siphoning Strike in his MP5. Gangplank will be slightly above one seventh of the mana cost, one third assuming he uses it on a minion and refunds the mana cost by 50%.

I think I see a shitty argument.

Leti the YetiApr 29, 20159 votes

all for gp buffs cuz he's awesome

Bouffon dAnglaisApr 30, 20151 votes

ARRRRRR.

Darth ValerApr 29, 20159 votes

His Q is decent, imho. He needs power in other parts of his kit. But I guess the rework will address this and other problemz.

DoFrApr 30, 20156 votes

real talk guys, all GP has is his Q, and Assists from his ult

atleast his Q should be Strong as his only ability to do damage

Silents429Apr 30, 20151 votes

I mean he is an AA fighter, but everyone seems to think they can only do things with his Q.

thePandevApr 30, 20152 votes

He needs the Ashe treatment. Take his E and shove it into his passive and actually give him something useful in there. It's the worst part of his kit, 20 second CD for 40 AD and a bit of MS late game is a joke of an ability. His W could also be worked on a bit, maybe add another aspect to it.

NazZomLordApr 30, 20151 votes

If his E was in his passive how would you have built in Furor a amazing 1v1 lvl 1 and ability to give your entire team a steroid for a team fight? And its not the worst part of his kit, once its done it allows still a nice passive that gives reasonable stats that can make boots unneeded on him.

thePandevApr 30, 20151 votes

Except he has to either decide to: Use E and not let teammates have steroid, or have the team steroid but not gain as much himslf.

It's also on a 20 second CD. Once you use it in a team fight, your team won't benefit from it anymore.

The problem is that the ability is always leveled last on any GP build (Unless you're supporting) and it isn't even worth using in lane, due to it's mana cost that can be used on another Q. It's a nice little boost in damage passively for your team, but really it's an outdated ability that needs fixing.

He would fare better with a completely different E, one that suits him much better, because as it is now his E is basically useless until late game.

NazZomLordApr 30, 20151 votes

"Except he has to either decide to: Use E and not let teammates have steroid, or have the team steroid but not gain as much himslf." By using the E his Team gets the steroid and he gets it himself.

And it is a excellent initiating ability for you to swoop in and do extra damage and for others to let out a large initial burst. And after the fight is either done or is a prolonged one, it can be used to either clean up the reaming champs or make for an easy get away, And of course it is worth using in lane, The dueling potential for it is downright good early game, and late game with 40% cooldown (New Cleaver, IBG and spirit), you can use it every 12 seconds, making it rather spammable for a team fight, and it lasts 7 seconds meaning you are waiting 5 seconds before another usage.

So useless? NO. He is perhaps the hardest champion to get away from, and one of the hardest champs to catch up to. A decent attack boost and speed boost, and it affecting your entire team during a team fight.

thePandevApr 30, 20151 votes

The ability itself is probably one of the most boring and unsatisfying in League. Unarguable.

You can easily shove his E into his passive.

Gangplank gains passive MS and AD (Equal to that of passive E, increasing with levels).

If Gangplank kills a unit, he gains extra AD and MS (Equal to that of active E) for x seconds. On a x second CD

This way GP still has a pretty strong level 1, despite losing Grog soaked blade, you deal extra damage on Q and autos.

The E active team steroid was not that noticeable, ever.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but GP is the only champion in the game to have an aura/self boost without having an actual active effect. Hard to explain but I mean that JarvanIV 's AS aura drops down a flag which he can use to knock up and damage enemies. Taric 's Armor aura damages and reduces enemies's armor as well.

We are counting non ult or passive abilities there. It is clear that GP has one of the most unsatisfying abilities in the game if not the most in his E, and needs to be either is passive or completely changed.

NazZomLordApr 30, 20151 votes

An actual active effect? So you mean the Ms and Ad isn't a active effect?

I am picking up that you dont play gangplank, or you have never gotten to level 18 in a team fight.

And although the new passive idea is and decent idea, i would most likely see grog soaked blade being a attack passive in which you level up. Or even another steroid or a attacking ability giving stacks of some sort. I do of course see your argument but you need to truly play him to understand how usable and satisfying GP is when E is active.

His aura is of course able to effect others, but makes it biggest mark on himself where it makes him much quicker and able to be excellent in clean up duty and initiating a fight.

thePandevMay 1, 20151 votes

You're right, I don't play GP as of now, but in past seasons I have usually played him, and can now easily realize that his E is begging for a rework.

In a meta where MS doesn't really matter in teamfights anymore due to CC tank meta, and just dashcity in general, his E should very much be reworked.

TBH I don't think GP is all that bad at all, it's just his E could be a very good passive for him.

**Passive: All forms of damage from Gangplank apply Grog soaked blade (Up to 3 stacks, and magic damage works the same way now) BUT, instead of slowing enemies down, champions that receive 3 stacks deal 3/3.5/4/4.5/5% reduced damaged to GP **

Hydra + Stattik shiv + Q apply 3 stacks in total, so stacks late game are easily applied. Also adds a tanking aspect to GP, which is really important to him.

An active that fits in with this is hard to think of, but this passive I think would benefit GP a lot more currently.

NazZomLordMay 1, 20151 votes

I believe the E is only needed to be changed if the replacement still gives speed or damage or tanking. The W is really what helps him work so well with the CC Tank Meta this is because you can wait until it is all down and walk away or use the cleanse to fight back properly. Speed is something that works well with Gangplank due to his passive, W, and E. This is always fun due to the fact that some are taken by surprise from the mobility. I will read up and think of a new E or R passive combo rework.

ATM im hoping for his passive to apply the same slow or a rage-like quality, but lowers their damage towards Gangplank, With rage his E would be a steroid giving him speed, a amped grog blade, and some speed increase. Its passive being only 3 stacks and 7% while active is 10 stacks and 20% increase. so that they would be slowed hugely take large damage and cant run, but once the effect is over they can begin running again until the 20 CD is down.

We simply need to sit and work on the concept for it ourselves. Never know, it might happen.

Silents429Apr 30, 20151 votes

Except he has to either decide to: Use E and not let teammates have steroid, or have the team steroid but not gain as much himslf.

Well I know you don't know much about him, When he E's he gets more from it then passively, so he isn't losing anything activating it. A weird flaw in his E actually but it works that way currently.

It's also on a 20 second CD. Once you use it in a team fight, your team won't benefit from it anymore.

When the fuck else are you going to use it then?

KDragonLApr 30, 20152 votes

All I want changed for gp is to be able to move while using E or W.

IllumanatiObamaApr 29, 20151 votes

He's getting changed, mainly his passive and E I believe. Should come out before the Poppy update. But that's what they said.

The Red WardenApr 30, 20151 votes

If he gets a kill the sound effect should be changed to "BOOM, HEADSHOT"

WolfBVApr 30, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Red Warden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rd8KE9hM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-04-30T01:30:35.718+0000)

If he gets a kill the sound effect should be changed to "BOOM, HEADSHOT"

But den Cait

The Red WardenApr 30, 20151 votes

Gangplank is a pirate, he don't care

NazZomLordApr 30, 20151 votes

i actually dont really believe GP needs to be changed, i may be a rare sort, but even tho mana is a problem early game ive learned to overcome it with smart usage and early Coin. This makes for a passive early game, and enough money for a aggressive mid and ability to carry with full by early late.

DarkomantisApr 30, 20151 votes

If Riot could change his bonus AD to % bonus AD then that would do a lot for Gangplank without overpowering his early and early mid.

Remlap1223Apr 30, 20151 votes

It's a good idea but it will never work. Gangplank doesn't have a power curve. He's got the best level 1 in the game, he's as much of a lane bully as Renekton is without falling off.

kile147Apr 30, 20151 votes

Why don't we just make him a marksman then, he no longer uses his cutlass and just shoots his pistol

SymbolicFearApr 30, 20151 votes

GP isn't Annie... I love GP as is. His Q is almost broken as is. No buffs needed.

SimplicateApr 30, 20151 votes

Kinda lame since GP has hella sustain does hella damage and can crit you with every other Q. Giving him a refund on it would just make him OP.

SirsirApr 30, 20151 votes

The money is the reason it doesn't do that while annie Q does. That and the on-hit procs. But yeah more mana refund would be really nice...

terkmcApr 30, 20151 votes

Do that and double gold gain when killing large monster/cannon minion/champion #Jewplank

Davy CrockettApr 30, 20151 votes

This is what they should have done to Veigar and Ryze's point and click abilities

Space BumApr 30, 20151 votes

I think his q has a little too much damage potential to give it that kind of buff. Annie can be at full build and her Q would not hurt ad bad as GP's with just ie and shiv.

Dies to WolvesApr 30, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Like Hugs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rd8KE9hM,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2015-04-30T20:47:07.331+0000)

I think his q has a little too much damage potential to give it that kind of buff. Annie can be at full build and her Q would not hurt ad bad as GP's with just ie and shiv.

that's because after shooting you with his Q, gangplank has to walk over to you (without any hard CC) and hit you until you die

meanwhile Annie can stun you with her Q and then burst you 100-0 from range with the rest of her skills