Fixing Tanks? Simple

CurS1VE·Oct 3, 2019·1 votes·1,444 views

Keep seeing ppl talk about how they want to play tanks (i'm not one of those ppl) and the state of tanks this meta is actually not too great tbh and there are many reasons for it but how do you make tanks at least mildly decent?

The biggest thing that has to be addressed is that buffing items that are "tank" whether making them cheaper or making them stronger can have a pretty adverse effect since (as we saw in S6) it means you are also buffing Bruisers/Juggernauts and possibly AP Bruisers which is just too much of a headache

Answer?

It's pretty simple imo, all champs that are "Tanks" in the traditional sense should get a very simple "passive" for the class itself. A scaling dmg reduction is honestly the most simple and practical change.

What do I mean?

A "Hidden" Passive so to speak for all designated Tanks and I do mean Tanks, not juggernauts, not Wardens or anything like that. 5%/10%/15%

getting the first reduction at lv 5, the 2nd at level 11 and the last at level 17

This ensures that the "Tanks" get reduction as the duration increases, it also means that you won't be buffing items in any way.

The best part about this simple change means you can literally adjust the strength of all tanks with 1 change, if they (tanks) are still too weak you can easily adjust the % or the levels and you make easy sweeping changes to all those tanks at once. Also if it's too strong? It's very simple to just tone it down to something without killing it

Simple

41 Comments

MrFawknSunshineOct 3, 20193 votes

wardens are tanks.

vanguards and wardens are the two subclasses of tanks.

a hidden passive of damage reduction isnt the right idea.

what needs to happen is tank items need to have a % hp bonus once you reach a certain hp or armor/mr

so it wouldnt be effective for champs who arent tanks.

like for example item 3068 is a staple tank item it gives hp and armor 425 and 60. lets say we lower the base stats to 400/50 but once you reach idk 1200 bonus hp you gain 20% bonus hp

this would reward tanks who build alot of bonus hp by having more hp and keep those who build more towards damage and less bonus hp not as effective on them.

for example maokai typical 3 item build is item 3068 item 3065 item 3800 which currently would give him 1225 bonus hp and then he has either grasp and/or overgrowth which will increase is bonus hp . so lets say with those he comes to 1400 bonus hp +20%bonus hp (280hp) = 1680 bonus hp

same for armor /mr cuz tanks stack these stats. so at a certain amount of bonus armor/mr 125/100 you gain 10% bonus

so that 125 would gain another 12.5 armor and that 100 mr will gain 10 mr.

so sunfire gives 60 armor and righteous glory gives 30 then you have ninja tabs for 30 that gives you 120 armor so you would get any extra 10% bonus armor.

so this dont stack with base stats. it would scale into late game. which is typically when tanks fall off the hardest.

it dont necessarily give them more damage on abilities. (unless their abilities scale with hp/arm/mr )

so a 4-5 item tank champ would gain bonus hp/arm/mr based on how much bonus hp/arm/mr they have.

also it would still let items like bork/void staff./black cleaver/last whisper be effective but it would allow tanks to have tank stats and not give them damage, and except for a few champs wouldnt buff the rest of the champs.

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

so you are saying you want ppl to have warmogs built into their kit basically

so how much is that worth in gold? i mean ppl give me crap now for suggesting about a 1200g worth of 'free' stats @lv17

how much is a warmog worth? and you are actually trying to give more than a warmog actually if i'm reading what your are saying correctly. So you are ok with 3k of stats on tanks but 1200g of stats is just too crazy?

right on

MrFawknSunshineOct 4, 20191 votes

well im also saying reduce the base stats of the items and have them scale with bonus stats

so you are losing some gold efficiency until you reach the passives.

and its not a flat damage reduction just given as a hidden passive, you have to earn gold and buy into items to get the stats. and lets say they get 300 hp and another 15 armor and 10mr or whatever

how much gold is 300 hp worth ? item 1028 is 150 hp for 400 gold, so 800 gold item 1029 is 300g for 15 armor and then item 1033 is 450g for 25 mr (18 g per 1 mr ) so 180g for 10 mr

total that is 1400 gold ? of stats

so if all tank items have reduce base stats like i stated item 3068 425hp/60armor - 400 hp/50armor you lose 75 g worth of HP and 100g worth of armor while the cost of the item stays the same 2750g

so thats -175g of base stats from 1 item

then lets go with spirit visage 2800g 450 hp/55 mr lets go 400 hp and 50mr so lose 133g worth of hp and 90g worth of mr so that is 223g of base stats lost

then righteous glory 2650g 400hp/30arm lets go 350 hp and 25 armor so you lose 75g of hp and 50g of armor for - 125g of base stats

so all three combined you have lost 423g of base stats then from 1400g of stats from passives would be a net gain of less then 1000g of stats 967g of stats to be exact

now these #s are just for example

but it would make 2 things happen,

tanks to be tankier and scale later into game. to be effective in late game.

reduce the over all tanky ness of non tanks so they are more vulnerable to damage/dying while having the potential of having higher damage out put of tanks.

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

[deleted]

MrFawknSunshineOct 4, 20191 votes

oh fyi this is coming from a maokai main.

and it is a slight nerf on base stats early. but will still allow runes like adaptive runes for armor/mr and even the shit hp one to effect the bonus , and then runes like grasp, conditioning and over growth would also effect the bonuses.

so it scales in multiple aspects from runes/items

rewards tanks to be tanky. and punishes other champs by not making them as tanky

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

you dont understand

if a tank runs into lets say a riven or even a kled or literally anything that can out trade them early then that tank would need a massive amount of sustain to be able to keep up with that opponent and because those champs scale better with dmg then the tank would scale with actual tank stats that means no matter how many items the tank got they would be at the mercy of the enemy until they hit your breakpoint

you are a maokai main and don't understand how matchups work?

you would never be able to tank anything until way way late game, basically the tldr with your suggestions you would actually make tanks even worse then they are now

good job buddy

MrFawknSunshineOct 4, 20191 votes

they already are weak to those champs in lane cuz of kleds %hp damage and having more hp then tanks to being with and riven with conqueror and ignite

so it wouldnt change that much early

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

oh boy it absolutely would, it changes so much

even if it's not kled, literally it could be anyone with dmg early, the tanks in your scenario would have literally no way at all to deal with them. The power spikes they get via components as well as the completed items themselves would just be significantly weaker then the opposition.

So just by you building tank is a disadvantage with your suggestion because the items themselves wouldn't ever be as good as any dmg items that cost the similar.

It means the early game would be so much worse then it already is and even if you happen to get 1 item you would be significantly weaker and if you happen to get 2 items (how exactly considering you wouldn't ever be able to lane?) well you are in even rougher shape

honestly you think you are balancing things with this idea of nerf 1 thing to buff something else except you aren't looking at the actual state of the current game.

If you said tanks were massively OP then you could for sure move power from 1 thing to another and it should in theory be ok. Except tanks aren't massively OP, in fact they are pretty under powered, so by taking even more viability out of already weak laning you are dooming them and making it harder to hit the power spikes you are suggesting.

This is why theory crafting isn't as easy as ppl think, you aren't looking at things with the right set of eyes is all i can say

when something is massively under performing you don't need to nerf it and move around power, it's already nerfed! you are trying to bring it up to a level where it can compete with other things.

This is why your suggestions are pretty horrible.

Rather than trying to nerf anything in the tank kit you need to look at flat out buffs to all tanks because essentially all tanks are pretty shit. You don't need to nerf anything in their kits or items because they are already sub par.

MrFawknSunshineOct 4, 20191 votes

tanks are already at a disadvantage to all other champs in their similar lane/role.

this just allows them to scale and would make the other "tanky damage dealing" champs less tanky

effectively nerfing juggernauts /fighters that well are as tanky as tanks while having damage

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

no fool it doesn't!

it doesn't do anything you think

You can't get items if you can't cs/lane you can't lane if you are constantly bullied out

it doesn't nerf juggernauts OR fighters! you are actually BUFFING them! without ever touching their stats!

honestly you don't understand the push and pull of theory crafting and you are looking at it purely from a 1 dimensional pov.

Scaling through items means you need Gold generation! how does someone generate gold? through CS! If you are further putting Tanks behind in power spikes you are making those break points essentially impossible to get to and when you get to them it'd be too late!

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

im not trying to be mean, but that is the dumbest shit i've heard. You are talking about nerfing tanks early, nerfing their items early and they wouldn't even become semi ok until they hit a item breakpoint

this is ridiculous that you even come in here talking to me with your short sighted opinion

are tanks good atm? so you nerfing their stats only make them worse, that means they can't lane that means they can't get cs that means they can't get to the items that they need to get whatever bonus you are suggesting

i'm gonna put this out there so you guys can go babble more

it's all about item break points, some tanks use to be able to get 1 item and dominate, some would be able to do it with 2. once they got those 2 items they became insanely difficult to deal with and this is why things for tanks have been tough to balance. The overall efficiency of the items for tanks were really good and most tanks had scaling in their kits for resistance as well as specing into runes for it.

Now you are looking at a meta where the items and the tanks themselves have already been nerfed, i mean most fighters can use the tank items better than tanks because fighters usually can get more cs or more gold through kills and it makes them harder to kill while still having high dmg

Tanks generally have high base atk early, so that they can lane. Some have lower base atk but have spells that have good ratios this is all fine and dandy but if they cannot lane (which is what the current meta is) then all the items and all the runes in the world don't matter!

I suggested my % reduction for a very simple reason, it's practical because at lv 5 or even 6 it gives a small dmg reduction to make laning more comfortable but also the impact the tank has early it would be more forgiving (slightly, very slighty)

that same % scales over time which is something that may or may not ever come, just because the person could get 15% dmg reduction doesn't mean they will cause its all relative to how long the games last (Gathering Storm)

Chainman3Oct 3, 20192 votes

And then people start abusing this by building dmg onto tanks so they deal dmg while having a perma 5-15% dmg reduction buff on them. So they hit as hard as casters but are much tankier. Think about what would happen with lets say AP malphite.

CurS1VEOct 3, 20191 votes

you believe that 5% dmg reduction at that level is too much? and 15% late game is too much?

I think you should look and see what those ratios really mean before you jump to hyperbole.

10% dmg reduction doesn't make you unkillable just we are clear. This isn't some massive buff where you take 50% less dmg, no its 5%! 10% and 15% these are small ratios and as I said before if that isn't enough or its too much its very easy to change all at once by either reducing or increasing the ratio

if 5%/10%/15% is honestly too much (eye roll) they can easily make it 2-3%/7%/10%

Chainman3Oct 3, 20191 votes

Its not about being unkillable.... Let me put it a different way to make it easier to understand. 2 Champions with the exact same build, one is now naturally tankier with no respercussions. Example both are building ad + crit well now that dmg reduction comes into play and they win the dmg war just because theyre labeled "a tank" and getting free "tank stats" even if theyre building dmg.

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

do tanks scale as well as a ADC? no is the answer

btw those items you are talking about are really inefficient for the stats they give, almost all the AD crit items are sub 90% gold efficiency, and most tanks don't scale well at all. They have high base dmg early but they gain very little over the course of a game relative to say a ADC

So the fact is that ADC for example, would still have much more dmg than the TAnk because of the nature of how they scale

and lets just be real here for 1 sec, ADCs die to tanks and bruisers right now 1 v 1 if they don't have the peel it's just a simple matter of the ADC is a glass gannon with very little base resist and the tank even tho they don't scale for crap can still have a chance because they can tank the dmg without having nearly as much dmg in their items.

you guys are acting like the sky is falling and i'm honestly not sure if you ppl are trolling or what

your example is pure bullshit is what i'm saying because flat out you are trying to take some example and come to just some ridiculous conclusion.

i already said (for the 5th time now) if 5/10/15% is too high (which i don't think it is) the stats could easily be adjusted as need to say for instance 2/5/7 or 3/6/9 or even something 5/8 (only 2)

this is all just a idea, it's meant to be a like a startup, it's simplistic so that things can be changed easily without being difficult and that's the practicality in it

KeiagaOct 3, 20192 votes

You just turned tanks into bruisers

CurS1VEOct 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You just turned tanks into bruisers

uhh no, i turned tanks into tanks

KeiagaOct 3, 20192 votes

Let's say that people who already play tanks already know how to play them.

Now instead of buying full defensive items like item 3143 or item 3065

They have the freedom to buy hybrid items like item 3025 or item 3156 because the 15% bonus reisistances, stacked ontop of their base resistances will make up for the loss of HP and resistances.

Instead of making some insane, wide-reaching blanket buff like "ALL tanks gain a HIDDEN 15% bonus passive"

Why not just think of specific buffs for the tanks individually?

That way champions that are already considered moderately to SEVERELY overpowered like Nautilus don't get a FIFTEEN percent increase.

CurS1VEOct 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Let's say that people who already play tanks already know how to play them.

Now instead of buying full defensive items like or

They have the freedom to buy hybrid items like or because the 15% bonus reisistances, stacked ontop of their base resistances will make up for the loss of HP and resistances.

Instead of making some insane, wide-reaching blanket buff like "ALL tanks gain a HIDDEN 15% bonus passive"

Why not just think of specific buffs for the tanks individually?

That way champions that are already considered moderately to SEVERELY overpowered like don't get a FIFTEEN percent increase.

honestly with this meta they should prolly already be buying dmg items since tanks items arent really too great

i mean if a tank with low base AD or poor AD scaling wants to buy something that makes them weaker overall then thats on them

15% @ lv 17 is not a lot, im just gonna say this again. that is actually a very small amount for a late game stat considering in that time most ADC will be at 4 items as well this only really means tanks have a little more survivability then they would have currently assuming they built full tank

obv if they go and buy non-tank items then they will still melt, 10% dmg reduction isn't going to make them into something so extremely tanky just so we are clear

Essentially that's just the conditioning passive just so we are clear, are you saying you believe the conditioning passive from the resolve tree is super OP? because i would say most would disagree

and just so we are clear, that particular rune is open and available to everyone and it's still only a minor rune

Chainman3Oct 3, 20191 votes

15% at level 17 on a 3-4k hp cahracter = 450-600 hp = 1200g - 1600g worth of stats. Just for being labeled a tank. And thats small to you? A giant's belt and a half is a small amount?

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

15% at level 17 on a 3-4k hp cahracter = 450-600 hp = 1200g - 1600g worth of stats. Just for being labeled a tank. And thats small to you? A giant's belt and a half is a small amount?

how much is aftershock worth? thats free stats isn't it?

how much is conditioning worth? how much is boneplating worth?

and yes 1200g @ lv 17 is a relatively small amount and as i said it can always be adjusted

Chainman3Oct 4, 20191 votes

Those are runes not free stats. You take a trade off to get those stats. You dont get aftershock and this tank bs you're talking about. Or press the attack with this tank stuff. You're giving a hidden passive which is FREE stats for being labeled a "tank". Theres no drawbacks or loss of other stats to get this.

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

it scales doesnt it? its not something you get right away

so if the game last 15min you may only get part of the bonus

there are so many stipulations to this idea that you are just glossing over

and there is a stipulation to aftershock btw, and relatively speaking it's pretty free and does way way more than what i'm suggesting considering its available lv 1, it does dmg and all you have to do is hit a cc.

Tanks have to have something to allow them to become worth taking right? I mean yes this is a bonus just for tanks, to give ppl a chance who want to play them and that's what it's about

i honestly don't care if tanks come back or not but objectively this is the most simple and practical way to give those players their tanks

what good is a tank who can't tank?

Chainman3Oct 3, 20191 votes

I tried to explain this to him but instead he decided to say

"I think you should look and see what those ratios really mean before you jump to hyperbole.

if 5%/10%/15% is honestly too much (eye roll) they can easily make it 2-3%/7%/10%"

he thinks 15% dmg reduction is something small. He also probably thinks 450 dmg blocked isnt much when you have 3000 hp. What can you do when a player thinks 15% dmg reduction is small. when theyre blocking a giant's belt worth of dmg with a "hidden passive"

KeiagaOct 3, 20191 votes

Not to mention it's a flat buff to an entire class of champs whether they're in terrible need of it like TahmKench , or bordering too strong like Nautilus currently is

Chainman3Oct 3, 20191 votes

I gave him the example of AP malphite and how he would be tankier with no consequences at all. Like i dont know how he can make the claim that its a "simple" change and not see the issue with this simple change.

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

@lv 17 blocking 450dmg is basically nothing when ppl are attacking insanely fast and dealing Crits and true dmg.

the entire point is to give tanks more survivability isn't it? and that is a very small amount of dmg blocked relatively speaking for late game but as i said it can always be adjusted

Chainman3Oct 4, 20191 votes

Bro im not gonna argue with you if you're gonna sit here and tell me 1.2k to 1.6k gold worth of stats is small. a free kill worth of stats at level 5 is okay to you.

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

1.2k gold @ lv 17 lol ! why dont you put it into context

it's not 1.2k gold worth of stats at lv 5

Chainman3Oct 4, 20191 votes

I said; "a free kill worth of stats at level 5"

You responded: "1.2k gold @ lv 17 lol ! why dont you put it into context

it's not 1.2k gold worth of stats at lv 5"

Feel free to tell me what kill is worth 1.2k gold to you.

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

you know there are runes like gathering storm and conditioning right?

those are literally the basis for my idea

gathering storm gives you ad/ap just because of time, i mean that's pretty free right?

conditioning gives you resist because of time and gives you bonus % as well

you are making it sound like what i'm talking about is so out of left field.

to be a tank they need to be able to survive and to lane and to be a benefit to their team and without buffing everyone (items) we have to look at ways to give those tanks a way to stand up in lane.

Now we could say "Buff Sustain" that is probably the most easiest way to buff tanks except for Grasp being the main sustain for tanks that means buffing that rune alone means you are buffing anyone who could use grasp which means fighters/juggernauts and the like, hec maybe even assassins if it's too good.

So we can't buff a rune itself

but if we buff items?

Well we already had tank items pretty strong and they had to be nerfed because non-tanks would use them because the overall strength many of the items offered were just too good giving dmg as well as survivability

so we can't single out items or runes because it will lead to other types abusing them.

the only logical conclusion is to buff the tanks themselves and sure we could in theory look at each tank and give each one a certain buff to whatever but that's a lot tbh and balancing 1 kit with ratios and the what not can be almost impossible in some cases

so the most easiest as well as practical change is essentially a scaling reduction in dmg taken, for tanks only. This is the easiest change you can literally plug into the game tomorrow and start seeing differences and even if you don't you can just tweak the ratios, maybe it's too low, maybe it's too high, tanks overall are meant to do 1 thing and that's to absorb pressure and ultimately that's what i am suggesting without having to try and rebalance all items or runes or whatever

Chainman3Oct 4, 20191 votes

Now your changing your idea entirely from "hidden passive" to runes like gathering the storm and conditioning.

What you said in your post: "A "Hidden" Passive so to speak for all designated Tanks"

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

no man, i'm giving you examples of things that inspired me

i am not saying make it a rune, i am saying there are already runes that give "free stats" you are using this premise of "OH YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT GIVING FREE STATS JUST BECAUSE"

I'm saying there are already runes that give free stats that are available. I haven't changed anything at all, i'm giving examples of things that already exist that are similar

the only difference is i am suggesting giving something just to tanks as a bandaid fix. that's all there is to it

Chainman3Oct 4, 20191 votes

You're missing the point. You went back to saying lets not make it a rune. What im saying is when you select a rune you're making a tradeoff. In the sense lux choosing boneplating or cosmic insight. Shes making a tradeoff tankiness for cdr or vice versa. When you say lets give them a hidden passive to all tanks, they arent making any tradeoffs, they just get the buff regardless just for being labeled a tank.

CurS1VEOct 4, 20191 votes

You are actually missing the point!

Tanks are ATM Not VIable or in high demand! This isn't a tank meta in the slightest (maybe something in the jg) and i'm speaking specifically to laning.

Tanks need to be able to lane, they need to be able to scale and they need to be able to do their job without being some unkillable giant.

ALL Tanks in lane are really trash, like flat out and because of that it means they (all tanks) need buffs across the board.

My premise with buffing all tanks across the board are (as i said, things like gathering storm was the inspiration) things that scale, that are fair, but not something that is too much too soon. Tanks need to be able to actually lane and with a flat % dmg reduction at lv 5 that means (assuming they didnt feed beforehand) they will have a much more comfortable transition and it also means their first item power spike will be a little stronger assuming the actually pick a tank item.

This does everything Tanks want, and it only continues the trend throughout the game.

It doesn't make Juggernauts or Bruisers stronger, if anything it gives Bruisers more matchup problems (juggernauts not so much since they are natural counters to tanks)

Tanks need something to where they can actually play the dam game! and that's what i'm suggesting and no it's not overpowered in any way since it's a scaling reduction as well as something based on level which means times, and that's why i referenced Gathering Storm because nobody says that Rune is OP right? OFC not and it can be played on anyone and it's fine, that means that it's balanced with the output it provides

my premise is exactly the same, I am talking about giving the % over time but also it's based on level, if you go around feeding your ass off you won't ever smell 10% let alone 15%! So in a way it's actually even more stable than Gathering storm since that rune is a linear rune, what I am suggesting is a linear approach but it has very real variations that can happen in any game which means how well you do directly impacts how well the reduction is!

Chainman3Oct 4, 20191 votes

Sion, Rammus, Nautlius, Malphite which one of those is trash? Even poppy and shen id say are pretty decent currently not overpowered but decent. Hell maokai can do his job pretty well. You're not looking for laning when you're playing a tank you're looking for a teamfighter. Idk why this concept is so hard to grasp for so many players. If you think you're gonna walk into lane and hold your own against duelists and bruisers well then buff every enchanter support because they cant hold their own against assassins and mages. While you're at it buff adc's early game so they can lane alone without a support to help them. Roles exist for a reason, you're attempting to push tanks into a decent early game as well a monstrous mid game and a farily strong late game. This isnt "fixing" tanks this is making them so theyre able to be strong at all points and remove their weak early game. Where is the balance in what you suggest on that?

Btw you just agreed that you're trying to push free stats onto tanks. Just a side note.

VelasanOct 3, 20192 votes

Or just revert lethality to armor pen and the health nerfs to all tank items from seasons ago.

Oh and also some runes that actually give you tanky stats before ten minutes... and change second wind.

And that they have made tank items super niche so you spend a lot of gold to counter one person only for another threat to kill you in a team fight instead. Most champions also have some combination of true damage, HP % damage, and both AD and magic damage these days. So, there is no efficient way to counter all of the damage they can throw at you.

CurS1VEOct 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Or just revert lethality to armor pen and the health nerfs to all tank items from seasons ago.

Oh and also some runes that actually give you tanky stats before ten minutes... and change second wind.

And that they have made tank items super niche so you spend a lot of gold to counter one person only for another threat to kill you in a team fight instead. Most champions also have some combination of true damage, HP % damage, and both AD and magic damage these days. So, there is no efficient way to counter all of the damage they can throw at you.

like i said before, I am aiming strictly for tank only, when you open up the door you are trying to walk through you are basically trying to balance not just tanks but bruisers/juggernauts, even ADCs and assassins

it's really not trying to "counter" anything, i think you maybe misunderstanding what i'm trying to do.

I am suggesting that to make tanks viable in the slightest without making drastic changes to everything else (not trying to rock the boat) the most simplistic way to do it without making other champs who are non-tanks strong is to give flat % dmg reduction to tanks and then you can adjust that stat to make tanks stronger or weaker

when items are too strong it opens up a pandora's box to any sort of fighter class and that's what i'm NOT trying to do

at the same time i don't want tanks to get 1 or 2 items and take over a game and so the only way to compromise is to spread out how much they can do over time but specifcally only that class otherwise it just because some insane tank meta again

when we give a decent dmg reduction it gives them viability but they won't be so strong as to take over a game. They will just get some more survivability which is what the ppl who play tanks seem like what they want, but i am not in favor of making them unkillable and thats why i said these stats can always be adjusted

i mean we could just say they get 5% @ lv 6 and 10% at lv 16 instead of making it 3 different levels they get that reduction you just make it 2, it still keeps in essence the idea.

balancing 1 tank is already pretty tough, and if 1 is too good then that's all ppl will play, it's about making sure things are as even as possible..consistent, and without that consistency there is a big drop off in overall gameplay. Tanks overall (if we are to say are weak) then that means all of them must be brought up in viability.

On My Kill ListOct 3, 20192 votes

NTY we already have to deal with this % dmg reduction/buff cancer in aram. i'd rather we do actual changes to both runes,masteries,tank kits and introduce NEW items not just buff already existing tank items. to create a more healthier ecosystem. just giving all tanks a flat % dmg reduction buff will cause far more problems then it'd solve.

CurS1VEOct 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=On My Kill List,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rXqFhJEz,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-03T22:27:51.955+0000)

NTY we already have to deal with this % dmg reduction/buff cancer in aram. i'd rather we do actual changes to both runes,masteries,tank kits and introduce NEW items not just buff already existing tank items. to create a more healthier ecosystem. just giving all tanks a flat % dmg reduction buff will cause far more problems then it'd solve.

It's often really easy to just say "Give us something new" cept they already gave us something new in S9 it's called the resolve tree, we have tons of new runes and items (gargoyle stoneplay for example) and yet even with all these new things and yes all that stuff was added this season! The state of tanks still isn't too great is it? So your premise kind of falls apart because you are being extremely short sighted on what has already happened.

Just so we are clear, The ENTIRE Resolve Tree is New that means things like Aftershock, Boneplating, Conditioning all those things are brand new and have only been here for 1 season

Riot has ALREADY DONE WHAT YOU'VE SUGGESTED and it put Tanks in the Place they are NOW!

I love when the kids who just like to dismiss things come out because they say things like "Give us something new" when riot has done and does that pretty consistently. It's not about trying to add on "new" stuff its about trying to improve whats already in place. That's what I'm getting at, take what's already known and find ways to make it better without just saying "tear it all down and start over". It's about being practical with what can be done and that's what I am suggesting.