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Kalista Dash Fix

Kholdstare13··2 votes·1,227 views

I suggest a simple fix to keep her dash interesting, but not broken.

Distance = movespeed / attack speed

First, this keeps things more consistent for her. She can't gain insane mobility by rushing 2.5 AS. AS instead leads to a larger number of shorter hops. She can still do these hops in an erratic pattern to dodge if she wants, but it's no longer free mobility and she's limited to how fast she could normally move if she were running and NOT attacking. What kind of person can hop faster than they can sprint?

Second, it gives her a weakness to slows. Lucian was too strong when HE could ignore slows by dashing, so why can Kalista? Slows are supposed to be a way of enabling a champion to catch an enemy. A huge number of champions become completely invalidated when someone like Kalista can kite at full speed while disregarding all slowing effects. Factoring in movespeed doesn't stop her from kiting, it just makes the speed at which she CAN kite fair.

6 Comments

DeadXera3 votes

The problem is, this ends up making it feel like building Attack speed is actively nerfing yourself. It feels awful. Now, I think that slows should effect her move distance, but making it so that doing something that should make you feel more powerful instead makes you feel like you're gimping yourself, it just is a really awful gumshoe fix.

iEpicFailLoL2 votes

Let's think Mid-Game Kalista here...

Lets say 200 Damage and 400 movement speed.

That would be her passive useless... people hate her but you are asking for her to be completely nerfed.

Kholdstare131 votes

{quoted}

Let's think Mid-Game Kalista here...

Lets say 200 Damage and 400 movement speed.

That would be her passive useless... people hate her but you are asking for her to be completely nerfed.

It's scaling the base distance. It already scales UP with boots, I'm asking it to scale DOWN with slows as well.

And as for scaling it DOWN with attack speed, it's still to keep things from getting too crazy. She can still kite backwards at 125% of her movespeed even with my idea in place. How is that useless? Everyone else kites at LOWER than their movement speed because they need to pause a full attack frame between walking.

qetzel2 votes

I say... No, for several reasons.

  1. Readability - if you don't know exactly how far Kalista will jump, it will feel weird for everyone involved. It will be much harder to play as or agianst her due to predictability. Big changes (like the boots upgrade) are inherently more readable than tiny changes. Also, how will this work with movespeed and attack speed buffs and debuffs? Do you want her suddenly jumping further because a tank with FH got too close? What will Lulu do to her? This adds to the lack of readability

  2. Tradeoffs - Kalista already deals less damage than the average adc (maybe not enough less). With this cahnge, she will wither weaken her mobility to the point that it is stupid OR have a pathetic damage output. Either way, she will lose far too much. Tradeoffs have to happen, but not like this.

  3. Sucky feelings. I don't play Kalista, but how would you feel if an item you had to buy for damage had negative effects for you and only you? PBE Soraka had a passive like this that lowered armour/MR on her, and it wasn't added to the final Soraka for this (or a similar) reason.

Adrian Umbra2 votes

I think this is an interesting idea, but it falls flat for many of the reasons other people have discussed:

  1. It makes buying stats feel terrible: I feel like I should be gaining power and effectiveness when buying AS, not gimping how far I can hop on Kalista. Even if the overall effect is the same, I'm still having to click a lot more often, just as accurately to maintain this. Her Q also gets continually less effective at helping her dash as she gets attack speed, which is counterintuitive.

  2. Linking her dashes to MS means that MS boosts will also work to help Kalista. You want to be able to catch Kalista when she's slowed, which is understandable. But by that logic, a Lulu or Zilian should make her practically uncatchable. I can't imaging the amount of QQ that would create.

  3. Wall hops. At certain values of AS, she wouldn't be able to hop any walls. This is a problem, as it adds an incredible amount of burden of knowledge for the player (when will I no longer be able to hop over this wall?).

  4. AS slows now do nothing to hurt her mobility. This is a bigger issue than you'd expect, as you'd expect a FH to reduce her mobility. Missing that skillshot just because a WW with FH just got near Kalista and allowed her to dash further all of a sudden doesn't feel good.

Kholdstare131 votes

It is possible we can ignore the AS part and just have it scale with actual MS to account for slows, and not just upgrade with boots.

The thing is, you all act like buying AS would nerf her. It doesn't. It keeps her actual movement over time neutral.

I don't mind things becoming a BIT weird. For the kalista herself, the little indicator would scale in distance so she knows where she can go. For the enemy, seeing one hop gives a clear picture of what the next dozen will be.

And as for weird interactions, I'm all for Zilean enabling a sudden Kha'Zix style leap into battle. Enabling slows also enables hastes, after all.

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