Since Riot is big about rework low counterplay (assassins?) kits why not take another look at mages?

superfire444·10/12/2017, 10:52:58 PM·13 votes·1,115 views

There are certain midlaners who have lack of counterplay and are unfun to play. These champions are outdated, not played often but when you face them you wish wouldn't have to. They all have point and click nukes, CC and are hard to play around. I'm not saying to gut these champions, I'm simply asking to provide more windows of counterplay while trading, fighting and laning. These champions do have counterplay, aren't overpowered but lack counterplay.

Syndra Her Q/W/E are all dodgeable but if she hits one thing she can 1 shot you with R, it's not really healthy.

Annie Lacks window of counterplay. She has her stun active very often and if she doesn't she still wins the trade because of her E giving her a damage reduction aura. Give her more windows to be played around instead of her being a walking nuke with very tiny windows of counterplay. You have to avoid her because otherwise she will 1 shot you.

Anivia Early game she's weak but once she hits 6 she can near 1 shot everyone with her R and E. You can't run due to her W so a mobility champion is required. Even if she gets destroyed she can use her wall or Q and R for some cc.

Malzahar Has good pushing, loads of point and click and forces enemies to buy QSS. His combo has no counterplay if you don't have QSS + some sustain. His early pushing is pretty poor but after the early levels he's unstoppable.

Some mages do have a good design with less or no problems which the above champions have. Examples are: Orianna Her entire kit can be played around and everything can be dodged. She has good waveclear but isn't oppressive when ahead. Has no point and click nuke either.

Ahri Has loads of skillshots and can be played around. She is hard to catch but isn't as oppressive as above mentioned midlaners

Taliyah She needs to hit her W+E combo to do significant damage. Has loads of counterplay and isn't oppressive.

38 Comments

SweedishGunner10/13/2017, 2:23:02 AM14 votes

Ori and Taliyah are your examples of good mage design?

Ori bullies super hard early and scales really well, she's a generalist with no bad matchups.

Taliyah spams Q to push waves and just roams. Unless she tries for a sneaky E, W combo she either just harasses with Q or simply ignores the other laner.

rhintheminstrel10/13/2017, 12:55:27 AM8 votes

Orianna and Taliyah not oppressive?

Ori can easily use her ball to zone you out or poke you back. The presence of her ball itself is already oppressive. Taliyah is very strong early game and has a very strong level 3 all-in. She is much like TF, oppressive to other lanes especially at 6 and above where she can just roam and deal a lot of damage with her combo.

Yes, Syndra is strong and oppressive but she has had been nerfed so much and with the influx of shields and heals, she's the only reliable BURST champion that could actually stop an ADC destroying teams.

Annie has counterplays. Her range, for a mage, is lackluster so she needs Flash to do her full combo. With out flash, she's going to need someone else to engage for her. As of the MYMU, her Summon: Tibbers and Incinerate has been given a 0.25s delay compared to before that it's instant.

Anivia 's stun is actually a skillshot. She needs item to do well too. ANd most Annivia's opt to power farm til she gets her powerspikes.

These items are there for a reason and really helps you for them to not snowball like crazy item 3001 item 3194 item 3155 item 3111 item 3140

Call Me Nana10/12/2017, 11:42:10 PM8 votes

Why is this entire post 'they're not oppressive unless fed.'

that rule applies to literally everyone.

Penns10/12/2017, 11:23:43 PM7 votes

counterplay maybe but are you sure about "Taliyah Orianna not oppressive"?

Paroe10/13/2017, 7:15:59 AM4 votes

You.... You think an immobile medium range champion (malzahar) is low counterplay?! Hes immobile with no huge damage amplifiers or massive burst. Why dont you respect him? If he wants to kill you he needs to flash on you or YOU need to screw up and let him hurt you. Malzahar excels in assassinating all ins... Pre-rework he was an Anti-assassin for a reason. Post rework he doesnt even clear very fast compared to most other mages. Even a malphite can out-push him!

Arakadia10/13/2017, 3:42:36 AM3 votes

Syndra can't one shot unless she has a strong lead and 5+ orbs up.

Rainfall10/13/2017, 5:22:11 PM3 votes

why are people upvoting this? he is talking about a class update who in their right mind would want another class update?

Fear the Kayn10/13/2017, 5:26:59 AM2 votes

Annie can simply be fixed by making her stacks decrease after a little while, just like Rengar. Right now she can literally just sit in lane, get full stacks, and force the enemy laner out of CS because of her point and click, easy to hit AoE ultimate stun.

KindredAndWolf10/12/2017, 11:33:19 PM2 votes

Totally agree. Syndra annie and anivia should all wait 2.5 seconds before they can even attempt to use their CC, alot like this new Eve. That bitch is CHUNK FULL of counterplay.

Blue Mystified10/13/2017, 1:30:16 AM2 votes

what happened to syndra...? i remember when she was considered unviable and people hated me for playing her and that she required too much skill... was it just a numbers buff?

PrinceOfStorms10/13/2017, 7:05:31 AM1 votes

Anivia's RE doesn't actually oneshot because Anivia's R doesn't trigger E's increased damage unless it's fully formed (takes like 3 seconds)

Stevev4510/13/2017, 5:49:34 PM1 votes

I guess if you want to double down on making the game more boring then your plan is sound.

Rexxiee10/13/2017, 9:16:48 PM1 votes

Taliyah presses Q and half heaths you lvl 1 with 1 spell.

Daily reminder she can never hit her W or E but all she has to do is spam Q on cd since that ability is so loaded on damage.

MysticDreams1210/13/2017, 9:19:29 PM1 votes

Sorry but they won't do anything to Annie. If you had looked up her MYMU post, you would have seen Riots comments.

Many champions can one shot. She's one of them, doesn't mean that she needs changing. She has good counterplay- thats why Riot added the visual stun charge so people could see and stay away. There's also MR, too.

Riot likes her the way she is, so she's staying that way.

Stop asking for changes. Annoys me to no end when people still ask for it.